what do you feel is wrong with homosexuality?

[Don Penguinoini]

Unless you are gay and married, how would you know?

Homosexuals who are married seem to think they are married properly. Even very religious homosexuals.

Im not sure on teh top bit.

I think that homosexuals can be married properly, but not really called a marriage, more like a Civil Partership, as Panda reffered to.

 

[Mike182]

In short: eliminate the problem by keeping God's commandments and you eliminate the associated ills that come from failure to do so. Cure the problem and the side effects will take care of themselves.

which problem are you referring to, and in what way would you like to eliminate it?

 

[Don Penguinoini]

I think, people view homosexuality as a problem, when it just a sexual orientation, nothing more and nothing less really.

 

[Autodidact]

Having an accepting attitude toward homosexuality would be to make light of the very serious and sacred foundation of God-sanctioned marriage and its very purpose, the rearing of families.

I don't follow you. What would accepting homosexuality have to do with making light of marriage and its purpose?

It's how our Heavenly Father would have it himself, it's what we must do to become like Him.

So God is straight then?

Statistics have nothing whatsoever to do with it, either you keep the commandments of God and seek to stand approved of Him or you do not. The sad reality is that far too many will suffer because they don't see this reality as fact. The winds may be shifting but they are blowing your sails in whoeful direction.

Well, personally, I do not, but which commandment exactly prohibits me and V. from loving each other? And in any case, since neither of us is Mormon, what business is it of yours?

That is nothing when compared to the eternal ills associated with not doing things according to the commandments of God. Do you honestly think that our Heavenly Father's stance on marriage and family are given frivolously?

I honestly think there is no such thing as Your Heavenly Father. Well, you did ask.

Do you totally reject the idea that there is good reason for the commandments, that perhaps your failure to understand them does not invalidate them, that your refusal to adhear to them will not turn away the judgments of a just God?

I totally reject the idea that there is any such commandment--because there isn't.

In short: eliminate the problem by keeping God's commandments and you eliminate the associated ills that come from failure to do so. Cure the problem and the side effects will take care of themselves.

What problem? I don't have a problem.

Sodomy, defined as anal or oral copulation with a member of the opposite sex or copulation with a member of the same sex, was a hallmark sin of Sodom, so much so that that is where the act got its name. We all know what happened to Sodom and Ghamora and how God viewed the "abominations" that permiated the cities.

Most Biblical scholars view the sin of Sodom as selfishness and greed.

Rom. 1:26-27
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

No commandment there.

1 Cor. 6:9
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

Well, this obviously doesn't refer to women, but in addition many scholars believe it should be translated as "male temple prostitutes," which makes a lot more sense if you think about it.

1 Tim. 1: 10
10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

Again, no women there, and probably refers to male prostitutues.

As to your questions about legislation, having to deal with such difficult issues is at the core of why we have commandments in the first place or am I to understand that you nelieve that we should condone sin because we don't want living with the consequences to be difficult?

I believe that your religious notions of sin should have nothing to do with legislation. Or did you want to be legally required to keep kosher?

 

[Smoke]

I believe that your religious notions of sin should have nothing to do with legislation. Or did you want to be legally required to keep kosher?

Some people just don't care about the sanctity of the American table. We probably need some kind of constitutional amendment to keep them in line.

 

[roli]

Funny, I didn't read "lesbian" there. This could be a diatribe against sex for pleasure, rather than procreation.

No actual word "lesbian" are you serious, notice the zillion times that sexual Jesus ,paul Peter all talk about fornication, lasciviousness, uncleanliness, adultry and the like and never actually describes the literal act, but here in Romans he does...!!!
It's not because you can't see the relationship Paul is trying make between, homosexual and lesbian relations, it's because you don't want to see the subject of discourse. I understand !!!!
Could you help us to understand what it is Paul ,in context, is actually saying.???
I'm trying to figure our what sect of Christianity your from,because there are those who endorse and promote gay lifestyle within the church and even have gay ministers who say God accepts and condones such practice.
Again this is not just about homsexuality, all sin is not ,never is ,nor will it ever be or can be accepted by God.
Men will attempt to claim God condones it ,but they are Jesus says, deceived.
If you don't mind me asking, do you actually believe that there are requirements for heaven and conditions we must meet to be accepted by God
Do you believe the bible is relevant for today.

 

[Evandr]

I don't follow you. What would accepting homosexuality have to do with making light of marriage and its purpose?[/font] So God is straight then?

Well, personally, I do not, but which commandment exactly prohibits me and V. from loving each other? And in any case, since neither of us is Mormon, what business is it of yours?

I honestly think there is no such thing as Your Heavenly Father. Well, you did ask. I totally reject the idea that there is any such commandment--because there isn't.

What problem? I don't have a problem.

Most Biblical scholars view the sin of Sodom as selfishness and greed.

No commandment there.

Well, this obviously doesn't refer to women, but in addition many scholars believe it should be translated as "male temple prostitutes," which makes a lot more sense if you think about it.

Again, no women there, and probably refers to male prostitutues.

I believe that your religious notions of sin should have nothing to do with legislation. Or did you want to be legally required to keep kosher?

The tone of your speak has grown nervous, you have resorted to speaking in desperation as you conveniently ignoring the obvious and deny anything that you cannot reconcile to your own supposed wisdom. This conversation is over.

 

[Bishka]

The tone of your speak has grown nervous, you have resorted to speaking in desperation as you conveniently ignoring the obvious and deny anything that you cannot reconcile to your own supposed wisdom. This conversation is over.

You lack of compassion has shown from the beginning. Midnightblue, Autodiadict and many others are people too, treating them like second-class citizens because of their sexual orientation is disgusting.

 

[roli]

Funny, I didn't read "lesbian" there. This could be a diatribe against sex for pleasure, rather than procreation.

Maybe you should read the context of it to see what word he uses to link the 2 verses together "'likewise"

Rom 1:26For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

Do you see there are 2 positions here he is emphasising , natural use changed or exchanged for the unnatural,..... could he be talking about the sexual union bewteen 2 women , turning from the natural to the unnatural practice without actually saying lesbian.
The vile =means guilt,shame, disgrace,dishonor, reproach, what affections are ,.... vile and God gave them over to their passions.
What's the natural use(instinct and what's against nature........ and the next verse ,LIKEWISE ... men leaving the women ...men with men.
And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

 

[roli]

You lack of compassion has shown from the beginning. Midnightblue, Autodiadict and many others are people too, treating them like second-class citizens because of their sexual orientation is disgusting.

What is the topic here
What do you feel is wrong with homosexuality ?????
Is that an open ended question or what !!!!!
Was there any indication from the tilte and past threads that strong opinions would be portrayed here and quite possible that it would get personal and people might take offense

 

[Francine]

Interestingly, the chapter breaks are not in the original letter. So people frequently don't realize that the content of that last paragraph of Romans 1 is actually a set up for the scathing argument Paul delivers in the next "chapter" of his letter.

I totally agree, but there are some chatrooms that will kick-ban you for even mentioning Romans 2:1

 

[Evandr]

And where again does God command women not to love each other?

Oh please, it is a slothful servant that needs to be commanded in all things. Your splitting hairs and ignoring the spirit of the law.

Do you really expect me not to see through your weak little ploy...Ok, if you insist.

We are told to love one another...

John 13: 35
35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have alove one to another.

That doesn't mean that it is Ok to jump into bed with anybody you want to, but you already klnow that

 

[Francine]

That doesn't mean that it is Ok to jump into bed with anybody you want to, but you already klnow that

Jesus said two men would be in bed together, and one would be raptured and the other one left behind. If sleeping in the same bed doesn't disqualify one of the men for the Kingdom of Heaven, why would it disqualify women?

Luke.17:[34] I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.

 

[Autodidact]

The tone of your speak has grown nervous, you have resorted to speaking in desperation as you conveniently ignoring the obvious and deny anything that you cannot reconcile to your own supposed wisdom. This conversation is over.

Bye. If you ever feel you can defend your position, please come back.

 

[Autodidact]

Maybe you should read the context of it to see what word he uses to link the 2 verses together "'likewise"

Rom 1:26For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

Do you see there are 2 positions here he is emphasising , natural use changed or exchanged for the unnatural,..... could he be talking about the sexual union bewteen 2 women , turning from the natural to the unnatural practice without actually saying lesbian.
The vile =means guilt,shame, disgrace,dishonor, reproach, what affections are ,.... vile and God gave them over to their passions.
What's the natural use(instinct and what's against nature........ and the next verse ,LIKEWISE ... men leaving the women ...men with men.
And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

1. It's not a prohibition; it's a consequence.
2. It could mean that. It could also mean being consistent with your nature. In that case, heterosexuality would be unnatural, for some. It's just not clear. What is clear is that lesbianism is not prohibited in the Bible. Yet some heretics declare it to be a sin, substituting their prejudice for the word of God. Weird, huh?

 

[Bishka]

What is the topic here
What do you feel is wrong with homosexuality ?????
Is that an open ended question or what !!!!!
Was there any indication from the tilte and past threads that strong opinions would be portrayed here and quite possible that it would get personal and people might take offense

It should never get to that point.

These are people's lives we are talking about. They are as much of God's children as of any of us, and you nor anybody else has any right to treat them any differently.

 

[Autodidact]

Oh please, it is a slothful servant that needs to be commanded in all things. Your splitting hairs and ignoring the spirit of the law.

Do you really expect me not to see through your weak little ploy...Ok, if you insist.

We are told to love one another...

John 13: 35
35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have alove one to another.

That doesn't mean that it is Ok to jump into bed with anybody you want to, but you already klnow that

So I take it you agree that you agree that lesbianism is not prohibited by your religion? Yet you have the nerve, the sheer effrontery, to call it a sin. Better check your pride and do a better job of living God's law, don't you think?

 

[Francine]

So I take it you agree that you agree that lesbianism is not prohibited by your religion? Yet you have the nerve, the sheer effrontery, to call it a sin. Better check your pride and do a better job of living God's law, don't you think?

There's always the fallback position that lesbian acts are fornication, and fornication is clearly forbidden.

 

[Evandr]

You lack of compassion has shown from the beginning. Midnightblue, Autodiadict and many others are people too, treating them like second-class citizens because of their sexual orientation is disgusting.

Well, that was quick. Every time I stand and debate the subject of sexual orientation my opponents are forced to fall back and cry foul. I have learned from highly respected mentors that the strength of my position is easy to see and difficult to argue against, especially when trying to maintain some semblance of a religious platform.

Lack of compassion? maybe, but don't you see what's happening? too much compassion can kill a person when it allows them to blind themselves to the dangers of what they do. I do not judge the worth of the individual and I certainly do not consider anybody to be a second hand citizen, weather they know it or not these are precious brothers and sister of mine in the Lord and I will not mince words and play games when it come to serious transgressions that I believe will harm them and offend God. Our Heavenly Father is not wishy-washy with His commandments and neither shall I be in defense of them.

I haven't sought to degrade anybody, I haven’t engaged in name-calling, I haven’t resorted to the slings and arrows of innuendo and lambaste. I have only suffered by your lack of respect for my intelligence (please, no snide remarks, I haven’t called anybody stupid) as I positioned myself in no uncertain terms against what I believe to be wrong. Sometimes the necessary verbiage can cut to the quick so don't go blaming me for that.

I think that what I say will not be easily forgotten and the day may come that these may look back and be grateful that somebody stood against the tide.

So go ahead, stone me for my words, it wouldn’t be the first time someone got thrashed for speaking the truth.

 

[Evandr]

So I take it you agree that you agree that lesbianism is not prohibited by your religion? Yet you have the nerve, the sheer effrontery, to call it a sin. Better check your pride and do a better job of living God's law, don't you think?

Quite the contrary, sodomy is sodomy regardless of the gender. The family unit is the focus of God’s plan for His children; anything that threatens the organization and propagation of the family unit as God has set it up is a sin, pure and simple.

As long as a person keeps their appetites and passions within the bounds that the Lord has set they can do pretty much whatever they want.