What do you feel is wrong with Islam?

[Mujahid Mohammed]

Nicely put.

I would say I can find many religions beautiful but sometimes the people I meet within a religion can make me second guess my thoughts.

That why in Islam it is important to focus on Muhammed and his companions and not muslims today.

 

[YmirGF]

there is only one way to define islam and that is how Allah and His Messenger defined it. And what Muhammed and his companions did and understood is Islam.

I hear this all the time and yet curiously the average Muslim would seem to just be guessing how the Prophet and the companions did things. For example, not a single Muslim government on the planet is considered, by Muslims, to be a good example, let alone a perfect example, of people practicing Islam as it should be practiced. Why do you think that is? If it was all so obvious one would think that some folks somewhere would have got it right by now.

 

[Captain Civic]

Most of my problems with Islam were stated by YmirGF.

Plus the fact of "if it's in the Bible that supports MY belief, it's from God. If it's in the Bible that DOESN'T support MY belief, it's been changed."

To be honest, I don't see a lot of logic here. I see "I've been taught this since I was young, thus I'm right. You can't challenge me because you're already wrong."

 

[Mujahid Mohammed]

Ah, so you chose to share only the very basic agrarian knowledge it imparts and left out the quantum physics on purpose?

Well no, but you have to remember the state of the people in terms of their knowledge who recieved the messege. Being that they were illiterate much more so then the romans. Quantum physics and other things would be a little hard to explain to them.

and It doesn't matter what people say they think is a negative of your religion, you'll have an answer, which in all likelyhood wont change the mind of the person who thinks it's a negative.

Not in every case for alot of the negatives are perpetuated by the media, and just the general ignorance of people, not to mention the misrepresentation of muslims themselves.

If both muslim and non muslim looked at Islam, not only in terms of what it itself legislates but how the Quran tells you people are to understand it. Many of the misconceptions and negatives would be negated.

Nor will you see the negative as an actual negative, because you have no interest in doing so.

but is it really negative. Look at the legislation of alcohol and gambling. Allah says the bad far outweighs the good so leave it alone. and you can see there is some good in alcohol. But look at the negative effects it has on society. How many negative statistics are high because of it. it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out that it is bad. A person can see it.

I think it's bad that a religion can view homosexuals as anything other than normal people,let alone be seen to condone their persecution.

Islam does view them as normal people, but they are people who are sick. Not in the head, and not physically but in the heart. We are to not hate the person, only the sin. And they are not to be persecuted. but they have a responsibility to society to not spread what Allah consideres immorality and a abomination. this is a horrible sin and if one chooses to do it. They should do it at home. People have rights and things they must uphold for each other. In a place where people children are gathered is it considered moral to curse like a sailor, or it you are women, dress like women who work the streets. it is not acceptable. But you can cuss at your home. you can dress how you want wear as little as you want in your home. So if society deems it bad then keep this sin out of the reach of others. In order that your actions do not feed into others false desires. if they are doing it at home and I spy on them and go tell authorities get who gets in trouble me. to the point that if they caught me and poked my eye out. there is nothing I can do about it. And you also have to remember that this is only for muslims. If you are gay and non muslim living in muslim land under true sharia, the church then would have handled it their way with you.

You apparently don't think it's bad, because after all, they are people of bad mind and unatural lust.

Being that is bad. Allah hates it so for a muslim, they would want to stay away from that sin. if they go through some sort of punishment again for non muslims I am not sure what the church or synagogue's did then. but for a muslim it is not good to see people go through that, what person who has any compassion thinks this way. we are constantly praying for you another. Now if the person chooses to do it knowing the punishment who can blame them. And in Islam sin is taken seriously. the worse the sin the worst the punishment. stealing is considered so harmful to society and so frowned on by Allah that He ordered the retribution for this sin be the loss of the hand. It is just a deterant. If you knew you could be killed for having drugs what are the chances you will have drugs on you. If you knew that you would be strung up and beaten if you did this and that. would you do it? And if you did it would you be crazy enough to do it in the open or would you do it at home.

Islam justifies it's position - with complete bollocks, might I add - so the fact it is actually a negative thing to doesn't even register on your radar.
Pointless thread.

I am not following

 

[Captain Civic]

Nor will you see the negative as an actual negative, because you have no interest in doing so.

but is it really negative.

Do you see the problem there?

 

[Mujahid Mohammed]

My religion says that homosexuality is a perfectly normal practice and that in no way is the homosexual inferior or superior to his fellow human animals. Just in case you are interested, my religion is also called Reality.

Never knew reality was a religion. for some people's realities are based on perceptions can the same be said for your belief?

Nothing wrong in Islam?

How about these little gems.

1. Authorizing the brutal beheading or cutting off of hands or feet of a trangressor.

Punishment is relative to the society. Look at the boy who was caned. some say his punishment was a little severe. Well they take the vandalizing very seriously. and in Islam breaking commandments requires severe punishments. i wonder how much more or less moral and criminal our society would be if they had stiffer penalties on some crimes, What if Pedophiles were put to death, rapist put to death. What if you beat your wife and you are given 100 lashes in public. You cheat on your wife, death. How many men would cheat? How many families would not be destroyed? Brothels? Death to those who have drugs? How do you solve the drug problem?

2. Causing the believer to love the Prophet more than a mother loves her children.

there is nothing wrong with that. she gave him milk, the Messenger gave them the guidance to Allah, and Allah is the best and deserves more then anything as does the one who showed us the way of the Creator. the Prophet is showing me how to love Allah and worship Him, and showing us the way to Paradise. there is nothing my mother has done nor anyone else who can compete with that for a muslim. the same goes for any of the other semitic religons.

3, Causing a mother to sadly state that she wished she had more sons to offer up to the cause of Martyrdom.

Islam does not cause this. this is what some have said. this is the reaction of some people in recent times dealing with extreme oppression. did any of the companions say things like that, did the sahabiatte say this about their sons. they again are the example.

4. Creating an atmosphere of oppression that stunts the growth of Muslim nations.

sure it the muslims and not the UN security council sanctions, the USA destroying the infrastructure, the unjust Arab leader who are in bed with the US and the UN, or Israel killing muslims as much as they can. where is your evidence for this?

5. Allowing the follower to take up arms to defend their religion at the slightest provocation.

Slightest provocation? Ymir come on now, you have been on these forums long enough to know what the sunnah of the Messenger was in defending the religion. How long did he and the muslims wait? 13 years right? why so long? What had to happen to them all before they were even allowed to leave? Did someone just say an evil word to one them and they went out and defended and fought to the death killing everyone who was non muslim? where they allowed to just go and pillage and rape,murder and destroy all those who are non muslim or any one who even looks at a muslim wrong?

6. Allowing the continuing practice of female circumcision to go on. (I realize that this is a cultural issue but oddly enough it seems to exist in ONLY Muslim countries.)

If it is cultural then it does not apply to Islam. Islam is a culture that was established and defined, sealed so no change can come later. 'And it does not exist in only muslim countries. there are some indian cultures that have the practice.

7. By allowing a man to beat his wife even if it is only with a pencil thin branch.

So what did the Messenger do? Did he beat any of his wives what was his example?

8. The continued oppression of their women under the thumb of a male dominated society. (It may have allowed for minor liberating moves 1400 years ago, but Islam has simply not kept up with the times and is now considered quite backward in this regard.)

why? by allowing our women to become educated that oppressive. By not making them object of desire by them covering. Oh I guess the less clothes you wear the more liberated you are. so I guess the porn stars are the most liberated of people. how are the muslim women oppressed exactly? lets play this broken record misconception again?

9. The blatant intolerance of other religions within Muslim countries regardless of what the Qur'an has to say on the matter. (Saudi Arablia is a pristine example or if you are very masochistic you could try being a Baha'i in Iran... etc)

Regardless of what the Quran has to say. Anything that begins with that statement has absolutely nothing to do with Islam. And is something people do. How can something that says regardless of what the Quran says be a evidence in Islam. it is clearly not.

10. The fostering of ignorance amoungst the masses by destroying schools designed specifically to help educate them (Afghanistan for example through the brilliant work of the god fearing Taliban.)

so someone has to tell me why Islam teaches is to seek knowledge, and tells us the benefit of seeking knowledge. The Messenger himself was always teaching, Aishah his wife taught the companions and is the greatest woman scholar ever. And among the highest of the men in narrating hadith. But yeah what they did in Afghanistan is exactly what the Messenger of Allah did.

11. The endless provocation of the State of Israel for no other reason than the perception that Israel has no right to exist, which impacts directly on the Palestinian people.

Oh I see you believe everything in the news. And have no real knowledge of what is going on over there. try watching the video peac, propaganda, and the promised land a film made by jews.

12. The virtual silence from Muslims concerning the abuses that are ongoing in Darfur where Muslims are killing other Muslims over the colour of their skin.

Non of the bia media is giving us a voice. I never see CNN, foxnews, or any of our local media outlets at any of the speeches and lectures or gatherings we have when we speak out on these issues. No media is ever found, but what you will find is Cops. Plenty of them, no media just the police. i tell you what if you have access to any major media outlets to give people a voice then I can give you the list of many who have and will continue to speak out on that and many other issues.

I guess if the news isn't reporting it, its not happening.

I could add to the list indefinately. If you need anything more, feel free to ask and I will actually sit down and give it some thought. That dozen was just off the top of my head. Keep on point and good luck --- you are going to need it.

many of your points are cultural and have nothing to do with the religion itself. nothing islam taught in the Quran and sunnah.

ISLAM is the direct cause of all of these things and you have the temerity to imply that there is nothing wrong in Islam? Methinks that someone is in need of a reality check... and it isn't me.

islam is something defined what you talked about is culture and people using their own intellect to figure it out instead of submitting and doing what the One who has all knowledge says to do. There is nothing wrong with Islam. islam will not change, but the condition of the people will. islam does not change. but people have tried to give something that is defined a new meaning. it either is something the muslims did or it is not. when are you going to stop looking at what muslims are doing today as an example of Islam, and start looking at those whom Allah said got the religion right, who followed the Messenger, who followed the Quran and lived the hadith of the Messenger and witnessed what circumstances involved in the revealing of the verses.

 

[Mujahid Mohammed]

Do you see the problem there?

In what? I asked him is it really negative, talking about what some say are negatives? Like for example the legislation on alcohol and gambling.

 

[Captain Civic]

You did it again. The idea that you won't even consider that it's a negative. Your answer was "but is it really?"

 

[Mujahid Mohammed]

You did it again. The idea that you won't even consider that it's a negative. Your answer was "but is it really?"

You did it again, which is nothing? You have not given an evidence like your friend before you. What exactly was done again? You are not being specific. I gave you an example. Where is yours?

You think the legislation about alcohol and gambling is negative.

 

[Mujahid Mohammed]

I hear this all the time and yet curiously the average Muslim would seem to just be guessing how the Prophet and the companions did things.

No we know what they did. the question is are they going to submit to the formula.

For example, not a single Muslim government on the planet is considered, by Muslims, to be a good example, let alone a perfect example, of people practicing Islam as it should be practiced.

This is true, why because these people are not the example.

for example Abdullah ibn Masaood who was one of the greatest companions and scholar Islam told one of the Tabi'een if you who ever of you who is going to follow a path should follow the path of those who have died. Because the living could fail in their trials. Those are the companions of Muhammed. Abdullah ibn Masaood is telling the Tabi'een who is the second greatest generation that if they want to follow someone follow those who came before you. Follow the Muhammed and his companions. Even though Abdullah is one of them and the tabi'een are among the three generations whom Allah has given the stamp of approval to. Even if the people among you seem righteous, and mujahids, and pious etc etc. He is telling the second best generation who got it right to not follow the people from amongst themselves but those who came before us. What do you think that means for us today. There is no guarantee that the people living today would fail in their trials. but Muhammed and the Sahaba and the tabi'een and tabi tabi'een have passed the test as stated by Allah subhanah wa ta Allah. they have been given the stamp of approval. Whereas everyone else will be faced with trials and they do not know the outcome. No one has a guarantee that they are going to paradise as muslims, but the muslims who were patient with them, died with them, went through severe trial with them, made hijrah, were forced out their homes, the ones who fought at Badr and others etc. are the one's whom Allah and the Messenger of Allah said they are pleased with and this is a time as I said when the best generations were still around. What should we say today? Who should we follow today?

The House of Saud? King Abdullah? Musharef? Sadaam? Osama? Autho billah, none of them can even wear the shoes of the sahaba. they are not even worthy to be put in the same catagory not just a muslims leaders, but descent respectable and truly caring human beings. If what everything everyone says about them is true. they are the criterion. We have it as stated by Abdullah ibn Masaood. A man by who Muhammed said if you hear him say anything of me, accept it. Meaning anything thing that comes out of Abdullah ibn Masaood in terms of hadith should automatically be accepted. No question. that's the deal. And it will continue this way until as Allah says, He will not change the condition of a people until they change the condition of their hearts. The Muslims and the world in general are in a serious deficiency of faith based on true knowledge of Allah, we may know it but are not acting upon it.

Why do you think that is?

Just more of the Prophets fulfillments and statements talking about the condition of people of how the state of the Muslims and people would be towards the end of times, when the Ad-Dajjal comes and Issa comes back. I will post something to give more insight.

If it was all so obvious one would think that some folks somewhere would have got it right by now.

some got it right. It was Muhammed and his companions. Now if you look at the middle east, and the lines drawn by Great 'britain and others. they drew these lines. The Muslim leaders in each country have all been put into power by the US and its allies. These leaders are not thinking about Allah, the Messenger, or Sharia implementation they probabley do not even know what all these things are in detail. they are only thinking of money and power, you know that. the west does not want sharia to exist, for sharia cannot be westernized. But these people in power do not care. How many times have you seen these quote un quote muslim leaders going to the masjid, teaching classess, becoming scholars, students of knowledge or hafiz in Quran etc. etc. These are things the leaders in the time of Muhammed did. In their time the most religious became leader, the one who knew the most Quran and Sunnah and acted upon it the best. Had the highest level of character, and fear and love of Allah. Now it is whoever the most ignorant about the religion and is in bed with America, the UN, Israel, and all the others. These fools will come to power and rule they way they want to rule. Not the way the sharia of Allah instructs.

 

[Don Penguinoini]

The mother of all evils thing?

I mean, rape murder arent that bad.

 

[YmirGF]

I mean, rape murder arent that bad.

Good Lord, child, no... drink is by far much more of an evil thingy. Curiously though, Muslims who attack women and gang rape her because she was an adulteress is a perfectly reasonable thing to do in Islam. Get with the program, son. (And no, you cannot have a beer with your dinner, so don't even ask.)

 

[Don Penguinoini]

I honestly believe that some beliefs have NO place in todays world. And sadly, this has tarnished the face of muslims, which i believe is otherwise good. I have muslims freinds, they do ramadan and eid, and they are exactly like me and everyone else.

Islam isnt the only religion. I mean Hinduism has had some quotes which i have found to be terrible. Some which i cant believe. Doesent make me bad, if anything, it makes me good.(i hope)

Ill be honst, i completely HATE drinking. I think its disgusting. I would never go out of my way to stop someone from doing so. Although i did with my father...I remember my day...

 

[Captain Civic]

You did it again, which is nothing? You have not given an evidence like your friend before you. What exactly was done again? You are not being specific. I gave you an example. Where is yours?

Good grief.

Re read it. The first statement was;

Nor will you see the negative as an actual negative, because you have no interest in doing so.

Now you can dispute the fact that it might not be negative, as you did here;

but is it really negative. Look at the legislation of alcohol and gambling. Allah says the bad far outweighs the good so leave it alone. and you can see there is some good in alcohol. But look at the negative effects it has on society. How many negative statistics are high because of it. it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out that it is bad. A person can see it.

But that wasn't the point. My point was that you can't see it anything else than a negative. He said that you have no intention of looking at it as anything but a negative, and you basically agreed with him.

I personally don't endorse gambling, but it can be very entertaining as long as you can control yourself. I do drink, but I don't go overboard. There's only negatives in abusing it, not the actual thing itself.

That's my point. There are obvious positives to both of them, but you seem to be avoiding them.

 

[McBell]

many of your points are cultural and have nothing to do with the religion itself.

Nice safety net isn't it?
If it is bad it is culture.
If it is good, it is religion.

I wonder where this culture came from?
Could it by chance have been the religion?

{sarcasm}
Of course it was not the religion.
There are bad things in the culture and everyone knows that religion contains nothing bad.
{/sarcasm}

 

[YmirGF]

Part One:

Never knew reality was a religion. for some people's realities are based on perceptions can the same be said for your belief?

Without the slightest doubt, the thing is, unlike Muslim's I never insist that I am correct. That in itself should serve as a rather stark neon flasher for anyone who has the slightest intellectual integrity.

Punishment is relative to the society. Well they take the vandalizing very seriously. and in Islam breaking commandments requires severe punishments. What if Pedophiles were put to death, rapist put to death. What if you beat your wife and you are given 100 lashes in public. You cheat on your wife, death. How many men would cheat? How many families would not be destroyed? Brothels? Death to those who have drugs? How do you solve the drug problem?

Such strident rules may work well with people who are unable to think their way out of a paper bag with directions, but in "the west" we feel such measures are a trifle "over the top" shall we say. Some might even call such punishments barbaric. Death for adultery? That would seem to be a tiny bit extreme in my opinion. Thank you for outlining the systemic violence within Muslim thought however. I knew you would not let me down.

there is nothing wrong with that... ...the same goes for any of the other semitic religons.

Oh piffle. What many Muslims fail to grasp is that this also serves to sever them from their caring for humanity as a whole as everything is unimportant compared to the goal.

Islam does not cause this. this is what some have said. this is the reaction of some people in recent times dealing with extreme oppression. did any of the companions say things like that, did the sahabiatte say this about their sons.

Say what you will, the woman I was thinking of was a staunchly pious Muslim who is now a member of parliament (or whatever) in Hamas. It is OBVIOUSLY inspired by her view of her religion which is Islam. No doubt she is not a "good" Muslim because of this.

they again are the example. sure it the Muslims and not the UN security council sanctions, the USA destroying the infrastructure, the unjust Arab leader who are in bed with the US and the UN, or Israel killing Muslims as much as they can. where is your evidence for this?

Why is it that when things go well for Muslim's it is often considered the "will of Allah" and when the tables are turned it is "oppression". Why is it not the will of Allah working against rather stupid Muslims? Sadly, you cannot have your cake and eat it too. That only happens in Hollywood.

Slightest provocation? Ymir come on now, you have been on these forums long enough to know what the Sunnah of the Messenger was in defending the religion. How long did he and the Muslims wait? 13 years right? why so long? What had to happen to them all before they were even allowed to leave? Did someone just say an evil word to one them and they went out and defended and fought to the death killing everyone who was non Muslim? where they allowed to just go and pillage and rape, murder and destroy all those who are non Muslim or any one who even looks at a Muslim wrong?

Well only a fool would wage "war" on a far superior adversary. My guess he was making a list, much like Santa Claus, of who was being naughty and who was being nice. It's called biding one's time until the moment is ripe.

If it is cultural then it does not apply to Islam. Islam is a culture that was established and defined, sealed so no change can come later. 'And it does not exist in only muslim countries. there are some indian cultures that have the practice.

I didn't say it was exclusively a Muslim problem. I said that oddly it was prominent in many Islamic countries. One would think that if Islam is so Hell bent on correcting the behavior of their adherents that they would have put a stop to this kind of thing, but no, they don't seem to care and so it continues to this day.

So what did the Messenger do? Did he beat any of his wives what was his example? why? by allowing our women to become educated that oppressive. By not making them object of desire by them covering. Oh I guess the less clothes you wear the more liberated you are. so I guess the porn stars are the most liberated of people. how are the Muslim women oppressed exactly? lets play this broken record misconception again?

There is nothing in the Qur'an about "covering up women" it only states that men AND women should dress modestly. I assume you have read the Qur'an, correct?

Regardless of what the Quran has to say. Anything that begins with that statement has absolutely nothing to do with Islam. And is something people do. How can something that says regardless of what the Quran says be a evidence in Islam. it is clearly not.

Point taken, perhaps I should have said, "In spite of what the Qur'an says to the contrary..." countries like Saudi Arabia do not tolerate ANY other religion except Islam to exist in peace. Likewise the government of Iran is hardly a bastion of promoting religious freedom... again, in spite of what the Qur'an implores people to do. In both these cases, it would seem that the followers are indeed compelled to tow the government line, regardless of what the Qur'an has to say about it. You would think someone would have noticed.

so someone has to tell me why Islam teaches is to seek knowledge, and tells us the benefit of seeking knowledge. The Messenger himself was always teaching,

The unsaid portion here is that as long as that pursuit of knowledge does NOT go outside clearly established Islamic thought and principles.

Aishah his wife taught the companions and is the greatest woman scholar ever. And among the highest of the men in narrating hadith. But yeah what they did in

Afghanistan is exactly what the Messenger of Allah did.

Again, I did not say it was but that was a nice side-step. I hadn't realized that Muslims were accomplished dancers. All kidding aside why are many Muslim nations’ world leaders in terms of illiteracy? One would think that folks would at least be encouraged to learn how to read -- apparently not.

Oh I see you believe everything in the news. And have no real knowledge of what is going on over there. try watching the video peac, propaganda, and the promised land a film made by jews.

Your anti-Jewish sentiments are most edifying. Thank you so much for clarifying this topic. (I do not watch television and I do not listen to the radio. Go figger.)

Non of the bia media is giving us a voice. I never see CNN, foxnews, or any of our local media outlets at any of the speeches and lectures or gatherings we have when we speak out on these issues. No media is ever found, but what you will find is Cops. Plenty of them, no media just the police. i tell you what if you have access to any major media outlets to give people a voice then I can give you the list of many who have and will continue to speak out on that and many other issues.

Seriously, that is commendable, but as the virulent elements of Islam have known for some time, action speaks louder than words. If we non-believers have a very negative view of Muslims the onus is on the "good" Muslims to show that we are in error. Don't give in to the idea that you CANNOT effect change. You can. Just don't give in to the reasons why you cannot or we will never change our viewpoint of Islam. Do you hear what I am saying?

many of your points are cultural and have nothing to do with the religion itself. nothing Islam taught in the Quran and Sunnah.

Now technically that is very true, but you have unwittingly stepped into my bear trap by saying this. IF these things are cultural, and Islam is a total way of life and a Perfect religion, then logic would indicate that such nefarious cultural elements should have been cleansed by now. Islam has been around for 1400 hundred years and has no problem dictating every aspect of life to the believer. So why do these "cultural" things continue to this day? My guess is that they are all considered to be A-OK and so they are left alone, but... I could be wrong.

*shakes fist angrily at the ReligiousForums.com 10,000 character limit*

 

[YmirGF]

Part Two:

Islam is something defined what you talked about is culture and people using their own intellect to figure it out instead of submitting and doing what the One who has all knowledge says to do.

So... you are saying that if people simply stop thinking and do as they are told then everything will be "peace, love and beards"?

There is nothing wrong with Islam. Islam will not change,

And in a world that embodies change, in every aspect of creation, this would seem to fly in the face of reality. I would tell you that Islam's inability to change is its greatest design flaw... But heck, what would an unbeliever know, eh?

But the condition of the people will. Islam does not change. but people have tried to give something that is defined a new meaning.

Even though you are exhorted by "Prophet" Muhammed [pbuh] not to make any changes to his work? This is what I mean. You are all stuck by your dogma and any attempt to redefine the meaning will be unsuccessful because there will always be Muslims who refuse to go along with the "new meaning" d'jour.

it either is something the Muslims did or it is not.

My god, you folks need to do a bit less navel-gazing and get out and smell the coffee. Then again, the Ummah is supposed to be at each other's throat at the end of days, so perhaps each and every Muslim is simply doing their part. It is destiny and it is all in Allah's hands -- right?

when are you going to stop looking at what Muslims are doing today as an example of Islam,

Are you serious? This statement is altogether laughable save for the fact that I suspect that you are actually serious. Um... I live on Planet Earth in the year 2007. Where else am I supposed to look when there are 1.3 billion examples of Islam strutting about the world like wounded little peacocks with axes to grind? Oy vey, eh?

and start looking at those whom Allah said got the religion right, who followed the Messenger, who followed the Quran and lived the hadith of the Messenger and witnessed what circumstances involved in the revealing of the verses.

Do you realize that you are talking about "pie in the sky"? I understand FULLY what you are saying and see the sense in it, but surely you do not expect all of Islam to come around to your viewpoint, especially when so many perceive us being in the End of Days, already.

BTW: Thank you, sincerely for the thoughtful answers my friend. I hope that one day, Muslim's will understand that I am their friend and not their enemy. It is true that I am no fan of Islam, but I have never met a Muslim I did not like. Go figger. I think it is their innocence that strikes a chord with me.

 

[Quoth The Raven]

i wonder how much more or less moral and criminal our society would be if they had stiffer penalties on some crimes, What if Pedophiles were put to death, rapist put to death. What if you beat your wife and you are given 100 lashes in public. You cheat on your wife, death. How many men would cheat? How many families would not be destroyed? Brothels? Death to those who have drugs? How do you solve the drug problem?

Hmmm, could we perhaps solve the drug problem by killing anyone with a drug problem? It's all so clear to me now.:yes:
I seem to remember reading somewhere - possibly here - some evidence that states with the death penalty for murder don't have significantly less murders than states without the death penalty. It appears the threat of death has a negligible effect on the commission of crimes.
And it's a truly vindictive or unbalanced person who thinks their spouse deserves to die for having sex with someone else.:sarcastic

 

[frg001]

Alcohol is bad as it tends to lead (some) people to doing bad things because of it.
Islam is bad as it tends to lead (some) people to doing bad things because of it.

Now personally I wouldn't BAN either... but you ask what is bad.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Alcohol is bad as it tends to lead (some) people to doing bad things because of it.
Islam is bad as it tends to lead (some) people to doing bad things because of it.

For the claim/anology to hold you must show that Islam (and not some nationalist/xenophobic perversion of Islam) "tends to lead (some) people to doing bad things", and I'm not at all sure that you can do that.