What do you gain from criticism of a religious teaching you do not follow or believe in?

[TagliatelliMonster]

Oh I am interested in the answer to what you guys get out of it by more or less harrasing believers, just because you your self do not believe anything to be true.

You're doing it again.

So no of course I can not know the answer

The bolded part above, doesn't seem consistent with that.

, you haven't told me why you act like an complete nincompoop in discussion with spiritual or religious people.

Ask me nicely.

I will await your reply to the OP

Post nr 52

 

[Ella S.]

You think the solution to that is to attack their beliefs? As opposed to, say, simply telling them you’re not interested?

Yes. If somebody says that you should pray for health rather than get a medically necessary blood transfusion, then that's a dangerous idea that literally kills people. It needs to be challenged so that less people fall victim to it.

I'd go so far as to argue that it's a moral imperative to attack those sorts of beliefs just as one should argue against prejudice.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

So to you, each time a person of faith want to ask a question or let others ask them question about their beliefs.
They have to add a user manual for the non-believer to read first?

He's saying that if they only want questions within a certain scope (as opposed to about anything), then they should simply define that scope.

I dont think non-believer are that dumb...they know and understand well what is a good question for learning.

What's dumb about it?
If a muslims invites you to ask any question pertaining to islam, then why do you complain when people do exactly that?

Subjects involving islamic extremism / fundamentalism etc certainly are fair game - as they pertain to islam.
"Pertaining to islam" is the defined scope in the request.

And even in this thread some non-believers have admitted, they dont care about knowing the answer they recieve from the believer.

Links to the posts in which that was said?

That becomes mocking...

Does it?
Doesn't seem like it.
Your first objection is an inappropriate one, since the questions you don't like are perfectly within the scope that was set by the OP.
Your second objections.... well... let's just await the links to the posts in question first.

 

[Spirit of Light]

You're doing it again.



The bolded part above, doesn't seem consistent with that.


Ask me nicely.





Post nr 52

I ask nice the day religious people are treated with respect.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

But why the need for pushbacks? Why not just accept that what they telling is their personal belief?

Because this is a debate / discussion forum.
Not a "state your opinion and move on" forum.

The very point of a debate is to listen to each other's arguments and then either agree or point out the faults or problems you think exist in your explanation of why you disagree.

If everybody agreed about everything, or if nobody would challenge views they don't agree with, then this forum would have no purpose.

The entire setup of debate/discussion is about stating your views and challenging those you disagree with while pointing out why you disagree..

 

[PureX]

Yes. If somebody says that you should pray for health rather than get a medically necessary blood transfusion, then that's a dangerous idea that literally kills people. It needs to be challenged so that less people fall victim to it.

I'd go so far as to argue that it's a moral imperative to attack those sorts of beliefs just as one should argue against prejudice.

When was the last time that actually happened to you?

 

[Ella S.]

When was the last time that actually happened to you?

The last time that I died because of my religious beliefs? Is that a serious question?

 

[PureX]

The last time that I died because of my religious beliefs? Is that a serious question?

No, I meant when was the last time someone told you to pray instead of getting real medical help. Because I have never had it happen to me, and I don't know anyone that it has ever happened to. I have also never seen anyone on RF make any such suggestion.

 

[sayak83]

Have a look at @MyM OP where she ask people to ask questions about Islam. Do you really not see how some of the atheists treating her? They have no respect at all

Please report any post in any thread that you believe is against the rules. The staff will act on it.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I speak often about the 4-5 atheists in RF that are targeting everything a religious person say here.

I think you're mischaracterizing those "4-5 atheists."

 

[Ella S.]

No, I meant when was the last time someone told you to pray instead of getting real medical help. Because I have never had it happen to me, and I don't know anyone that it has ever happened to. I have also never seen anyone on RF make any such suggestion.

Without going into too much detail, because it's private, I have actually lost 2 relatives this month alone because they refused to get treatment and asked for prayers instead.

It seems fairly common to me, especially among Pentecostals, fundamentalists, and Jehovah's Witnesses, but I know a few Mormons and ex-Mormons with similar stories.

This was one of the major reasons why James Randi opposed religion. He made a whole documentary on it. If you doubt that it still happens, just follow the congregation of Kenneth Copeland for awhile. Death follows in his wake.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Have a look at @MyM OP where she ask people to ask questions about Islam. Do you really not see how some of the atheists treating her? They have no respect at all

I've found @MyM to be quite disrespectful toward atheists herself.

I see this pattern play out a lot here:

• theist posts something that has a whole basketful of implicit assumptions
• atheist asks a respectful question about those assumptions
• theist takes this as an attack and responds with snark (and often also with nonsense about how atheists shouldn't even have the right to be in this space)
• atheist reflects the theist's tone back at them
• other theists then dogpile to complain about the atheist's tone, but not the theist's tone

I think @MyM is one of the worst offenders we have here in this regard.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I ask nice the day religious people are treated with respect.

That's going to be quite hard considering you cry about "disrespect" whenever someone asks questions that aren't to your liking.

 

[PureX]

Without going into too much detail, because it's private, I have actually lost 2 relatives this month alone because they refused to get treatment and asked for prayers instead.

It seems fairly common to me, especially among Pentecostals, fundamentalists, and Jehovah's Witnesses, but I know a few Mormons and ex-Mormons with similar stories.

This was one of the major reasons why James Randi opposed religion. He made a whole documentary on it. If you doubt that it still happens, just follow the congregation of Kenneth Copeland for awhile. Death follows in his wake.

I don't doubt that it happens. I've just never seen it happen here on RF. Or suggested to anyone that was not already a cult member of one of those anti-human religions. Which is why it seemed like an odd defense of religious criticism. When the vast majority of religions and religious folks don't adhere to that kind of anti-human religious dogma.

 

[MyM]

I've found @MyM to be quite disrespectful toward atheists herself.

I see this pattern play out a lot here:

• theist posts something that has a whole basketful of implicit assumptions
• atheist asks a respectful question about those assumptions
• theist takes this as an attack and responds with snark (and often also with nonsense about how atheists shouldn't even have the right to be in this space)
• atheist reflects the theist's tone back at them
• other theists then dogpile to complain about the atheist's tone, but not the theist's tone

I think @MyM is one of the worst offenders we have here in this regard.

to each his own. I do get annoyed, I got laughed at by athiests, I got trash talked by athiests, I got ridiculed by athiests, I got degraded by athiests and yet, I'm supposed to sit back idly and let them carry on.

jeepers...such fairness eh?


I did start using a some harsh comments only because I have gotten fed up with their words of degradation and calling my religion and scholars of Islam idiots and criticizing my belief as if it was trash. Sure, go ahead and take their side you might be one of them too.

They do NOT respect me, I will NOT respect them. PERIOD.

 

[MyM]

Yes. If somebody says that you should pray for health rather than get a medically necessary blood transfusion, then that's a dangerous idea that literally kills people. It needs to be challenged so that less people fall victim to it.

I'd go so far as to argue that it's a moral imperative to attack those sorts of beliefs just as one should argue against prejudice.

In Islam, one is supposed to seek medical attention and try to stay in good health as much as possible. To sit back and die from not going to those who can help you is a sign of ignorance.

 

[MyM]

Because this is a debate / discussion forum.
Not a "state your opinion and move on" forum.

The very point of a debate is to listen to each other's arguments and then either agree or point out the faults or problems you think exist in your explanation of why you disagree.

If everybody agreed about everything, or if nobody would challenge views they don't agree with, then this forum would have no purpose.

The entire setup of debate/discussion is about stating your views and challenging those you disagree with while pointing out why you disagree..

challenging in a debate forum fine, but most insult, degrade and mock and disrespect and if you come back with something they don't like (talkin majority of athiests) they call you names and use sarcasm as if that person doesn't exist and is stupid. To me, that is not what a debate forum is supposed to uphold.

changing views fine, insulting them is not.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Please report any post in any thread that you believe is against the rules. The staff will act on it.

I will do.
Sorry I haven't done it sooner

 

[Spirit of Light]

challenging in a debate forum fine, but most insult, degrade and mock and disrespect and if you come back with something they don't like (talkin majority of athiests) they call you names and use sarcasm as if that person doesn't exist and is stupid. To me, that is not what a debate forum is supposed to uphold.

changing views fine, insulting them is not.

100% agree with you

 

[Spirit of Light]

That's going to be quite hard considering you cry about "disrespect" whenever someone asks questions that aren't to your liking.

Oh you can ask questions, but drop the harrasment, ill intention coments about religious books, or religious people.