What do you think of these Twenty Virtues Essential for Wisdom?

[stvdv]

That's a lot to do! Is there a particular order for these things?

That looks a lot indeed.
Luckily my Master told us "select 1 and do that 1 properly, then the others will come to you automatically"
Hence I don't worry about not being able to do all of them, or in which order. I just take one that is most easy for me, and focus on that one

Also it might be interesting to examine what "wisdom" actually means in the context of Hinduism.

That might be interesting, but it will be speculation (unless you attained the state of Wisdom)
On the other hand if you follow the virtues, then gradually Wisdom will come to you anyway
If you are interested I can give the link where 20 virtues are explained in a few lines each, using the Teachings of my Master (Sathya Sai Baba)

 

[Spirit of Light]

Solitude has nothing to do with Loneliness, according to Hindu Teachings, I would even say it is more like the opposite

Agree again
Being in solitude with Allah(for me) or other deities for other people. Is the best solitude for spiritual awakening i have felt

 

[stvdv]

Most are good... I think there are a few that I wouldn't agree with... starting with the line on family.

Yes, that might be a trickier one, although I do remember from the Bible that Jesus seemed to imbibe that particular one

 

[stvdv]

My path of virtues is not without love and honesty. Though there is the pain of losing love when someone dies.

Then again I may define these things differently then others.

True, in my experience most differences occur because of defining things differently
I like below verse from the Koran, in which Allah promises that "He will inform you of everything you had disputed."
So, I need not worry that others have a different truth, that is how God willed it, I just stick to the truth granted to me (I like this concept)

Koran: 5:48
Then we revealed to you this scripture, truthfully, confirming previous scriptures, and superseding them. You shall rule among them in accordance with GOD's revelations, and do not follow their wishes if they differ from the truth that came to you. For each of you, we have decreed laws and different rites. Had GOD willed, He could have made you one congregation. But He thus puts you to the test through the revelations He has given each of you.. You shall compete in righteousness. To GOD is your final destiny—all of you—then He will inform you of everything you had disputed.

 

[Clara Tea]

What do you think of these Twenty Virtues Essential for Wisdom?

Are they do-able, useful, a bit too much, or plain rubbish in your opinion?

You think Wisdom is possible without these, or that more is needed, or something else?

View attachment 53890

Wisdom is required to recognize other virtues.

A pouring bottle cannot be filled. Similarly, those who espouse wisdom cannot gain it.

 

[Clara Tea]

No, it is not. Yet we live in a culture implicitly predicated on that delusion. Happiness is just another consumer product away. Another sexual encounter away. Another pay rise away. Another overseas vacation away. And while there is nothing wrong with the aforementioned things in themselves, we are liable to dissatisfaction and unhappiness when our lives become a pursuit of those things over and above our true spiritual ends. I do not think it is an accident that devoutly religious people report higher levels of happiness than irreligious people.


You should enjoy the legitimate goods of life. Detachment is not indifference. It is the strength to endure hardship and the self-control to keep the material goods of life in proper order. That is, subservient to virtue and the spiritual goods which far outlast the earthly riches subjected to rust and decay. Matthew 6:19.

No one is saying that we should all become ascetic hermits and live on nothing but bread and water.

Money can't buy happiness. But, it can rent it.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

[

Wisdom is required to recognize other virtues.

A pouring bottle cannot be filled. Similarly, those who espouse wisdom cannot gain it.

I would see that is most likely the best answer.

It has been offered that, "The essence of wisdom is the fear of God, the dread of His scourge and punishment, and the apprehension of His justice and decree."

Maybe virtues are born out of a healthy fear of God?

What else will Divert us away from a meterial self towards the divine virtues?

Regards Tony

 

[Clara Tea]

Yeah, Shawcross, Gein, Bundy, Manson, Dahmer, Gacey, they all did what was normal and natural for them. Of course it's not natural or anything inner for you or I, but there is indeed a "psychopath brain," and when mixed with a traumatic childhood the results are people who perceive the world--even other people--differently than how we do. A drive, an urge, an intense desire that burns like an addict chasing the pony, and it's tragically really just how they are. They may even logically know what they do is wrong, but they have no emotional grasp of it, no empathy, no remorse, no feelings of guilt or regret.
That is their nature. Highly abnormal, malfunctioning, and impossible to allow, but natural.

Hitler started as a little boy. He grew into a monster who attacked peaceful nations and tortured to death millions of Jews (and Blacks, and the handicapped). He had the same "inner nature" as Manson or Dahmer...."no empathy, no remorse, no feelings of guilt or regret."

Yet, the real horror is that his Nazi philosophy lives on in others. Many Nazi organizations exist today, and some forums are dominated by them.

Even more horrifying is the fact that Christian Germany was so easy to turn away from their God, for the sake of money (Germans were eating well), and smooth running government. Indeed, Hitler's government and war preparations were quite amazing. A whole country that cheered Hitler as Hitler was running death camps.

When I saw the same kind of thing happening in the United States (President W. Bush supported by the Religious Right, then, once he was president of the United States, he was elected to the presidency of the Religious Right)...then he made wars with Afghanistan and Iraq, though neither were enemies. Then President W. Bush made torture camps. That, in itself, was horrifying, but the fact that the majority of Americans still supported him was even more horrifying.

W. Bush and Hitler were the same (wars against peaceful nations and torture camps). Eventually some people stopped W. Bush before his evil plans were carried out. For example, W. Bush was trying to take over Niger (claiming, falsely, that they were supplying yellow-cake Uranium to Iranian terrorists).

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Hitler started as a little boy. He grew into a monster who attacked peaceful nations and tortured to death millions of Jews (and Blacks, and the handicapped). He had the same "inner nature" as Manson or Dahmer...."no empathy, no remorse, no feelings of guilt or regret."

No, Hitler was an entirely different beast than a serial killer.

Even more horrifying is the fact that Christian Germany was so easy to turn away from their God, for the sake of money (Germans were eating well), and smooth running government. Indeed, Hitler's government and war preparations were quite amazing. A whole country that cheered Hitler as Hitler was running death camps.

Germans were starving and poor and suffering from crushing war reparations and extreme inflation. They didn't turn from their god, the turned to a man who cherished that god and spoke to the Germans in a way that united them and gave them hope.
And don't forget, a lot of Americans were cheering him on as well.

When I saw the same kind of thing happening in the United States (President W. Bush supported by the Religious Right, then,

That's just nonsense. America hasn't had anything comparable, and it's a disservice to the real thing to use such devaluing comparisons.

W. Bush and Hitler were the

No, they really just weren't. Bush Jr was a coke head, ran a baseball team, amd was a drinker. Hitler was an artist, vegan, teetotaler, started one of the first anti smoking campaigns and had animal rights so solid he was going to shut down the slaughterhouses after the war.
And to flow this logic through the George Bush is like Robert Bundy? That is just a big "negative."

 

[RestlessSoul]

If these things help you than I am glad for you. For me, however, “wisdom” is the word I use to describe a deep understanding of human nature. All that is required for that is significant experience around humans, enough to understand and reliably predict the patterns in their thoughts, emotions and behaviors, individually and collectively.

About 1000 lifetimes should be enough then.

 

[Kenny]

Yes, that might be a trickier one, although I do remember from the Bible that Jesus seemed to imbibe that particular one

Yes, everything can be done wrong. A dollar can be good (help the poor) or for evil (buy drugs). But generally speaking, Jesus honored his father and his mother until he was 30 and then honored Father God. It is when family interfered with the higher calling that he drew the line... but if memory serves me correctly, he still continued all the way until he was on the cross when he said to John, "behold your mother, john, take care of her."(paraphrased) And then again... "Behold your son, mom" (paraphrased)

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Jesus honored his father and his mother until he was 30

For all we know he was going through a James Dean phase.

 

[Kenny]

For all we know he was going through a James Dean phase.

No, I think he was fulfilling the law, after all, he was Jewish.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

No, I think he was fulfilling the law, after all, he was Jewish.

Except there is a whopping zero evidence for anything he may have been doing during that time. Same say he became a priest of Isis or other deity.

 

[Kooky]

What do you think of these Twenty Virtues Essential for Wisdom?

Are they do-able, useful, a bit too much, or plain rubbish in your opinion?

You think Wisdom is possible without these, or that more is needed, or something else?

What does "Wisdom" mean to you?

I personally see wisdom as the ability to read a moral situation and the skill put one's moral principles properly into practice, meaning that it needs to be developed individually and practiced in live situations, and cannot be encompassed by mere lists of words.

 

[Aupmanyav]

"The essence of wisdom is the fear of God, the dread of His scourge and punishment, and the apprehension of His justice and decree."

Read between the lines, "I am the messenger/manifestation of Allah. Follow me and pay the tithe." Maintaining a religion needs money. How otherwise new temples will be built and more people will be fooled? It is just like a business enterprise.

 

[Aupmanyav]

This clearly isn't based on Eastern thought.

This shows that you are not familiar with Hindu thought. The most famous verse in Gita (or you can say the 'essence' of Gita) is about "not being attached to inaction".

"karmaṇi eva adhikārah te, mā phaleṣu kadācana;
mā karma-phala-hetur bhūh, mā te saṅgah tu akarmaṇi." BG 2.47

Your right extends only to action, not to the result of your actions; do not act for the result of your action*, and do not be attached to inaction. (Correct literal translation by Aup.)

* Do not act thinking that this action will bring you this benefit or that; act regardless of the results, act because they are your duties. Results will depend on multiple variables, you have no control over all of them.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

This shows that you are not familiar with Hindu thought.

The OP isn't. That's what I was referring to.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Read between the lines, "I am the messenger/manifestation of Allah. Follow me and pay the tithe." Maintaining a religion needs money. How otherwise new temples will be built and more people will be fooled? It is just like a business enterprise.

You are indeed correct in one regard, there is much meaning in obtaining that wisdom.

Also the great thing is God knows it needs money to live in this world, the Wisdom as to how to implement and handle finances is a major part of life, to which the quote will guide us in those choices.

Regards Tony

 

[stvdv]

Yes, everything can be done wrong. A dollar can be good (help the poor) or for evil (buy drugs). But generally speaking, Jesus honored his father and his mother until he was 30 and then honored Father God. It is when family interfered with the higher calling that he drew the line... but if memory serves me correctly, he still continued all the way until he was on the cross when he said to John, "behold your mother, john, take care of her."(paraphrased) And then again... "Behold your son, mom" (paraphrased)

Exactly this is what is meant with "Absence of attachment to family and home"

I see a few people here misinterpreting this line. Absence of attachment means just that. Some people here on RF fill in their own mind here

Furthermore the sixth virtue mentioned in the list is "reverential service rendered to the spiritual teacher". In Hinduism he first teacher is your mother, the second teacher is your father, the third teacher is your guru in Hindu thought, so this doubly shows the importance of respect to parents. Absence of attachment does not mean nor imply "not respecting", it just means "absence of attachment", no more, no less. I hope this clarifies this particular virtue

Do you still disagree with "absence of attachment to family, home" when seeing it in this context, or does it agree with Christian thought about family?