What do you think of these Twenty Virtues Essential for Wisdom?

[stvdv]

What do you think of these Twenty Virtues Essential for Wisdom?

Are they do-able, useful, a bit too much, or plain rubbish in your opinion?

You think Wisdom is possible without these, or that more is needed, or something else?

 

[Spirit of Light]

What do you think of these Twenty Virtues Essential for Wisdom?

Are they do-able, useful, a bit too much, or plain rubbish in your opinion?

You think Wisdom is possible without these, or that more is needed, or something else?

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I find this virtues to be very good, and as a sufi i do agree to them even they come from a different teaching than the one i follow

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Absence of attachment to family? Why? That's anti-social and denying something very deep, normal, and natural for us.
Detachment? That often comes with troubled lives and mental illness.
Intentionally limiting to what sort of company you'll keep based on "worldly knowledge" rooted in your standards? Where does that ever not fail in the long run?
Solitude? Everyone needs some alone time, but habitually needing it a lot can be indicative of mental illness, especially to the point of withdrawal. We are social animals. We do better when we have a shoulder to cry on and hand to help us.
No desire for objects and "control of senses?" It's ok to live a little.
Equanimity is a show. A performance of control. Unless it's a psychopath. Then there is very real potential to remain truly calm in a distressful situation.
Steadfastness? Why not a balance? All work and no play just isn't healthy.
Humility, no vanity, service to a spiritual leader, I want nothing to do with what you think a proper path to wisdom includes. Especially that no attachment to family. I'm glad I took a path that doesn't deny the flesh and the essence of what is human.
In my opinion, one cannot grow in wisdom if one denies such things as it is a path that willingly elects to deny the knowledge of experience and emotion. That absence of interest in company of the worldly minded, that one especially willfully deprives you of necessary knowledge and other nutrients essential for wisdom.
Particularly that no attachment to family. Why?

 

[stvdv]

For me a virtue is not something "you feel you have to do", it is something "you natural do"; part of your inner nature

Note: by "inner nature" I mean of course not our ego, but our "real nature"

 

[Spirit of Light]

For me a virtue is not something "you feel you have to do", it is something "you natural do"; part of your inner nature

For me it has been something that evolved throughout my spiritual evolvement

 

[stvdv]

For me it has been something that evolved throughout my spiritual evolvement

I have this experience too. Spiritual Teachings slowly become part of me, some quicker, some slower. Though with most of the Teachings I knew from the beginning "this feels true for me", and even knowing this, still it takes lots of hard work (and time) to make these Teachings my own

 

[Spirit of Light]

I have this experience too. Spiritual Teachings slowly become part of me, some quicker, some slower. Though with most of the Teachings I knew from the beginning "this feels true for me", and even knowing this, still it takes lots of hard work (and time) to make these Teachings my own

So true

 

[stvdv]

So true

Seems to me, that we agree on the things that matters most

 

[Glaurung]

To cultivate all these virtues is to follow timeless wisdom. Particularly detachment, which has value when we accept that the things of the world can never grant lasting happiness. This does not mean we cultivate a sociopathic indifference to the joys or sufferings of the world but that we accept that all such things are transient. That we hold that our true good is not in this world, but is in reality nothing less than God.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Seems to me, that we agree on the things that matters most

Yes, but you know, the more my mind calms down and i can see clearly, i believe we can agree on a lot more in the future too And same with other people in RF, i believe I have been my own brake pad in understanding other people.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

For me a virtue is not something "you feel you have to do", it is something "you natural do"; part of your inner nature

Robert Bundy did that.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

What do you think of these Twenty Virtues Essential for Wisdom?

Are they do-able, useful, a bit too much, or plain rubbish in your opinion?

You think Wisdom is possible without these, or that more is needed, or something else?

...

As a strong. universal skeptic I know nothing about wisdom. My cultural tradition is this:
Philosophy, (from Greek, by way of Latin, philosophia, “love of wisdom”) the rational, abstract, and methodical consideration of reality as a whole or of fundamental dimensions of human existence and experience.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Why even have complicated lists at all? Why not something simple like striving to improve and and enrich ourselves and society? Of course we need something more than that, like ideally behaving in pro-social manners in accordance to our psychosocial nature to help put everyone on the same page. But abstinence, saying no, and denying much of our humanity, it's a list of things to remember and things hard to justify and explain. Like solitude. Even the most deepest on introverts that is not good for a prolonged state of being. We need contact and interactions with others. It is who we are as a species.
And it is life. Jump in and grab it by the horns and get well used up while you can.

 

[Spirit of Light]

As a strong. universal skeptic I know nothing about wisdom. My cultural tradition is this:
Philosophy, (from Greek, by way of Latin, philosophia, “love of wisdom”) the rational, abstract, and methodical consideration of reality as a whole or of fundamental dimensions of human existence and experience.

It take wisdom to come to your answer so it is within you

 

[Shadow Wolf]

To cultivate all these virtues is to follow timeless wisdom. Particularly detachment, which has value when we accept that the things of the world can never grant lasting happiness. This does not mean we cultivate a sociopathic indifference to the joys or sufferings of the world but that we accept that all such things are transient. That we hold that our true good is not in this world, but is in reality nothing less than God.

So? Things don't last forever. That's not a groundbreaking realization or discovery. Nothing lasts forever and yet we enjoy and savor it anyways. Or at least some of us. I enjoy attachments to certain songs while I am able to hear. I am attached to enjoying compliments on my appearance while it lasts. I had a very strong attachment with my brother. It's not forever, and loss can scar deeper than any blade. But to not have any of that at all? Life would be more unbearable. It is loving the storm with passion despite knowing its time is limited and short. To enjoy a favorite breakfast and savor each bite because you know it wont last. It is loving and living with passion because nothing is forever.

 

[stvdv]

Robert Bundy did that.

Thanks for the reply.

Your definition of "inner nature" is different than mine I suppose (I added a note to my post to clarify what I mean with "inner nature")

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Thanks for the reply.

Your definition of "inner nature" is different than mine I suppose (I added a note to my post to clarify what I mean with "inner nature")

Yeah, Shawcross, Gein, Bundy, Manson, Dahmer, Gacey, they all did what was normal and natural for them. Of course it's not natural or anything inner for you or I, but there is indeed a "psychopath brain," and when mixed with a traumatic childhood the results are people who perceive the world--even other people--differently than how we do. A drive, an urge, an intense desire that burns like an addict chasing the pony, and it's tragically really just how they are. They may even logically know what they do is wrong, but they have no emotional grasp of it, no empathy, no remorse, no feelings of guilt or regret.
That is their nature. Highly abnormal, malfunctioning, and impossible to allow, but natural.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Yeah, Shawcross, Gein, Bundy, Manson, Dahmer, Gacey, they all did what was normal and natural for them. Of course it's not natural or anything inner for you or I, but there is indeed a "psychopath brain," and when mixed with a traumatic childhood the results are people who perceive the world--even other people--differently than how we do. A drive, an urge, an intense desire that burns like an addict chasing the pony, and it's tragically really just how they are. They may even logically know what they do is wrong, but they have no emotional grasp of it, no empathy, no remorse, no feelings of guilt or regret.
That is their nature. Highly abnormal, malfunctioning, and impossible to allow, but natural.

It is an interesting subject.
Now here is another version. People, who can't doubt, that they are fundamentally right about the universal conditions of a happy life. In other words they use their own individual way of being happy and declare that it is so for all other humans based on their individual way.

 

[Glaurung]

So? Things don't last forever. That's not a groundbreaking realization or discovery.

No, it is not. Yet we live in a culture implicitly predicated on that delusion. Happiness is just another consumer product away. Another sexual encounter away. Another pay rise away. Another overseas vacation away. And while there is nothing wrong with the aforementioned things in themselves, we are liable to dissatisfaction and unhappiness when our lives become a pursuit of those things over and above our true spiritual ends. I do not think it is an accident that devoutly religious people report higher levels of happiness than irreligious people.

Nothing lasts forever and yet we enjoy and savor it anyways. Or at least some of us. I enjoy attachments to certain songs while I am able to hear. I am attached to enjoying compliments on my appearance while it lasts. I had a very strong attachment with my brother. It's not forever, and loss can scar deeper than any blade. But to not have any of that at all? Life would be more unbearable. It is loving the storm with passion despite knowing its time is limited and short. To enjoy a favorite breakfast and savor each bite because you know it wont last. It is loving and living with passion because nothing is forever.

You should enjoy the legitimate goods of life. Detachment is not indifference. It is the strength to endure hardship and the self-control to keep the material goods of life in proper order. That is, subservient to virtue and the spiritual goods which far outlast the earthly riches subjected to rust and decay. Matthew 6:19.

No one is saying that we should all become ascetic hermits and live on nothing but bread and water.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

No, it is not. Yet we live in a culture implicitly predicated on that delusion. Happiness is just another consumer product away. Another sexual encounter away. A another pay rise away. Another overseas vacation away. And while there is nothing wrong with the aforementioned things in themselves, we are liable to dissatisfaction and unhappiness when our lives become a pursuit of those things over and above our true spiritual ends. I do not think it is an accident that devoutly religious people report higher levels of happiness than irreligious people.


You should enjoy the legitimate goods of life. Detachment is not indifference. It is the strength to endure hardship and the self-control to keep the material goods of life in proper order. That is, subservient to virtue and the spiritual goods which far outlast the earthly riches subjected to rust and decay. Matthew 6:19.

No one is saying that we should all become ascetic hermits and live on nothing but bread and water.

Well, you do have some points, but that can done without God at least for some of us. Now if you claim that it can only be done with the correct version, you can believe so. I believe differently.