What does a person have to do to believe?

[JoshuaTree]

There's a series of questions that popped into my mind while I was thinking about belief and whether it is a choice. If it is a choice, then surely there is a way to achieve belief. So here's the questions:

In your religion, what does someone who doesn't believe have to do to believe?

Does this process take a long time?

If your belief involves god(s), do your god(s) reply back in a voice, a sign, or something else?

How do you know it to be real and not your imagination?

What if this person does everything but still doesn't believe?

You can answer the questions however you want, you can pick and chose the ones applicable or if the questions aren't quite right, you can explain your perspective.

I personally don't have any answers because I don't have a belief, per say but I'd love to hear from different religions. I am open to challenging my non-belief.

Edit: remembered some religions don't have gods or aren't so deity focused, so edited the questions to be more inclusive.

1. We can't choose to believe that God is in control, that's the point of the thing lol.
2. Our second birth doesn't take any longer then our first birth, we can't pick the time (or place) of either.
3. The assurance that God is in control.
4. If we can change our mind then it's not real.
5. Who are we to judge another man's servant?

 

[QuestioningMind]

There's a series of questions that popped into my mind while I was thinking about belief and whether it is a choice. If it is a choice, then surely there is a way to achieve belief. So here's the questions:

In your religion, what does someone who doesn't believe have to do to believe?

Does this process take a long time?

If your belief involves god(s), do your god(s) reply back in a voice, a sign, or something else?

How do you know it to be real and not your imagination?

What if this person does everything but still doesn't believe?

You can answer the questions however you want, you can pick and chose the ones applicable or if the questions aren't quite right, you can explain your perspective.

I personally don't have any answers because I don't have a belief, per say but I'd love to hear from different religions. I am open to challenging my non-belief.

Edit: remembered some religions don't have gods or aren't so deity focused, so edited the questions to be more inclusive.

I can only speak for myself, but personally I require verifiable evidence in order to believe that something is true. I'm baffled when people claim that I 'just have to believe', as if I can choose to simply turn off my logical rational thinking brain in order to 'believe' in some fantastical claim.

 

[LuisDantas]

I don't think belief is a valid goal.

Religious practice has a lot of constructive use for faith, courage, contemplation and learning.

But belief? I don't think so.

 

[Quintessence]

Thanks for the complement, @illykitty Some folks get annoyed at my atypical approach, others find it interesting. I never know which I'm going to get from someone... haha.

You raise some very important points about how the power of idea and imagination isn't something to be trifled with and that it can be scary. I almost did another paragraph after that one about trusting yourself, because that's a really important aspect of all this. It looks like it's time to write that out now, and with a bit more depth than I was going to earlier.

There are basically two ways to approach the power of story, idea, and imagination (though in practice I wager we all mix the two).

First, is to hand the responsibility off to someone else. That might like respecting a tradition that has been done for a long time even if you don't fully understand the why's of it personally. It could look like consulting a professional clergy member of your tradition and taking to heart their words. For some it means passing off the responsibility and authority to a sacred text. Even the most independent of us defer responsibility and authority to something outside of ourselves at least some of the time. The question then becomes "when and where do I want to get help from others with this, and trust their judgement over my own?"

The second approach is to take the responsibility yourself. Parts of that approach look like spending time getting to know yourself so you are aware of your own biases and values. Another component is allowing yourself to be your own authority and not requiring validation from others. Often it takes the form of seeking experiences for yourself instead of listening to tales of others. Like the first approach, everybody at some point relies on their own internal judgements when acting in the world. The question becomes "when and where do I want to rely on myself and my own experiences, dismissing the opinions of others?"
​

Like I said, in practice I think we probably all do both of these things... the extent to which is probably in part governed by personality and upbringing. Some of us are raised in a culture that tells us "you must not ask for help" while others come from an environment where doing just that is expected and natural.

As for how I've wrestled with the notion of trusting in oneself, particularly with respect to the power of idea and imagination (aka, the otherworlds, gods, whatever fancy words we want to use)? It was mostly an issue for me when I was inexperienced. After you have so many dozens of experiences doing this stuff without crashing and burning, you realize your fears are not really justified. I guess you could compare it to bike riding. If you stay within your limits while learning, the worst that will happen is falling off and getting a bruise that goes away. Once you've learned, you never fall off unless something extraordinarily unusual happens. You're skilled enough to swerve or break to avoid the danger... or laugh in the face of that danger and run over it.

 

[InChrist]

God' Word says things like:

“Come now, and let us reason together,” Says the Lord, “Though your sins are like scarlet,
They shall be as white as snow; Though they are red like crimson, They shall be as wool. Isaiah 1:18

Seek the Lord while He may be found, Call upon Him while He is near. Isaiah 55:6

And you will seek Me and find Me, when you search for Me with all your heart. Jeremiah 29:13

“Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. Matthew 7:7-8

For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:23

But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written:
“How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace,
Who bring glad tidings of good things!”

But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?” So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:8-17

It is easy enough to see the truthfulness of the scriptures with regard to sin. Any honest person can see sin in their own lives, as well as in the world everyday. It shouldn't be that complicated to also understand the need for a remedy for sin...which the scriptures also address, as well as offer the solution.

If God does exist and desires a real living relationship of trust and belief then, as He says in His word, He desires one to come directly to Him seeking to know and find reasonable assurance that He is worth believing in and placing one's faith in Him. I don't believe God expects or wants blind faith where one's God-given brain is turned off. I do believe that for anyone sincerely seeking God provides more than adequate rational evidence and reason to believe.

 

[Fool]

There's a series of questions that popped into my mind while I was thinking about belief and whether it is a choice. If it is a choice, then surely there is a way to achieve belief. So here's the questions:

In your religion, what does someone who doesn't believe have to do to believe?

Does this process take a long time?

If your belief involves god(s), do your god(s) reply back in a voice, a sign, or something else?

How do you know it to be real and not your imagination?

What if this person does everything but still doesn't believe?

You can answer the questions however you want, you can pick and chose the ones applicable or if the questions aren't quite right, you can explain your perspective.

I personally don't have any answers because I don't have a belief, per say but I'd love to hear from different religions. I am open to challenging my non-belief.

Edit: remembered some religions don't have gods or aren't so deity focused, so edited the questions to be more inclusive.

when the mind doesn't understand what it is experiencing, it fills in the blanks the best it can with what it knows. that is what belief is.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

If a person has a seed of belief, or a desire to believe, there are things they can do to help that belief grow stronger, such as read apologetic books for that faith, and act strongly AS THOUGH that faith were true. Over time, their brain will think, "Gee, I'm talking and acting as if I believe; I must really believe."

However, in the end, if one doesn't have that seed of belief, if a person isn't convinced, they simply aren't convince. Period. It is the responsibility of the faith to do the convincing, and if a person isn't convinced, it's on the faith, not the person. It could be that the person was simply raised in another tradition and holds their own beliefs so strongly that they simply can't hear the arguments. But more likely, religions simply don't have compelling arguments -- none of us can "prove" our respective positions beyond a doubt.

People who convert usually do so for reasons other than that they are convinced of beliefs. They are, first and foremost, unhappy where they are and kind of looking for someplace better. In that condition, they are ripe to be convinced of a new set of beliefs.

 

[Orias]

I don't have a religion, but if you want to find the truth to something for yourself you earnestly have to want to find that truth and challenge everything claiming to be whatever truth you are finding.

 

[12jtartar]

There's a series of questions that popped into my mind while I was thinking about belief and whether it is a choice. If it is a choice, then surely there is a way to achieve belief. So here's the questions:

In your religion, what does someone who doesn't believe have to do to believe?

Does this process take a long time?

If your belief involves god(s), do your god(s) reply back in a voice, a sign, or something else?

How do you know it to be real and not your imagination?

What if this person does everything but still doesn't believe?

You can answer the questions however you want, you can pick and chose the ones applicable or if the questions aren't quite right, you can explain your perspective.

I personally don't have any answers because I don't have a belief, per say but I'd love to hear from different religions. I am open to challenging my non-belief.

Edit: remembered some religions don't have gods or aren't so deity focused, so edited the questions to be more inclusive.

illykitty,
You seem to have in you what Christians believe that God put within man, when He created him, the desire to search for his maker. This is called Christian Existentialism.
The only way to get belief in the one and only True God is by reading and studying His words, in The Holy Scriptures, The Bible. To get belief, to believe, you must also pray to God in sincerity, because some do not really want to know truth, which is required by God, John 4:23,24, 1Corinthians 2:10. The Bibletells us that wicked people, who do not really want to know God, cannot understand His words, Daniel 12:9,10. When Jesus was on earth he spoke to many people in Parables, which, many times the did not understand. Jesus wanted all who really wanted to understand, to ask what the Parables meant, to show they really wanted to understand his teaching.
God does not want anyone to blindly believe, without proof, so He has put many things in the Bible that no one, at the time written, knew these things, such the shape of the earth, Job 26:7,10, Isaiah 40:22. The Mosaic Law Covenant was a protection for the Jews who were living in a dry climate, and would have died many times over had they eaten pork, not knowing how to keep it, even shrimp was not to be eaten.
Consider the Bible itself, written by about 40 men, all in complete harmony, even though written over about 1,600 years. Then think about all the powerful people in history who tried to destroy the Bible, and the ones who tried to keep it in languages that few understood, under punishment of death to translate the Bible so that anyone and everyone could read it for themselves. God, Himself promised to keep His words true in all generations, Psalms 12:6,7. All these things would be impossible, if God was not watching over His word!!
About showing your belief, the Bible gives us the greatest instructions, we must follow in Jesus’ footsteps, 1Peter 2:21. We must be DOERS of the word and not HEARERS only, James 1:22. Christianity is st up for the spread of the Gospel about Jesus and his Kingdom that will be set up very shortly.
If you study the Bible as Proverbs tells us, at Proverbs 2:1-9, you will trust in God and His son Jesus, because, as the Bible seems to say, the only way to everlasting life is through Jesus, Acts 4:9-12, John 14:6, 20:30,31.
There is one Scripture, that many call, The Gospel in Miniature, John 3:16, because so many truths are in this one Scripture.
If you take time to read and study the Chapters, Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21, you can understand that Jesus gave all this information about the time we are living in, as positive sign that Jesus is going to return to earth very soon, so it is vital that we get to know God and obey Jesus, so we can be allowed to live in that Paradise earth that Jesus will bring about, 2Thessalonians 1:6-10, Acts 17:31, Revelation 21:1-5. Agape!!!

 

[PureX]

I think notions like faith get started with somebody or something you actually trust enough without ever realizing the basis of what it is that you're being introduced to.

It wouldn't be so bad if it was provisionally based allowing the possibility that the belief may or may not be true. It would at least allow for some discernment.

Faith doesn't have that, and is essentially an all-or-nothing endeavor.

What you are describing is not faith, but blind pretense. Unfortunately, some religions preach that blind pretense is faith, and that it must be practiced as faith if one is to adhere to the religion. But they are lying to us. Blind pretense is not faith, it is a form of dishonesty, and of willful ignorance. True faith is a choice made in the awareness of our unknowing. It is not a pretense of knowing based on some false super-human authority.

 

[12jtartar]

Ephesians 2:8-9 KJV
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Not of works, lest any man should boast.

I was not raised with religion, though my parents believed in God, though they were abusive and angry. In my late 20's, with two pre-pubescent children running around, I became fearful of messing them up so they were as bad as I. The very next day, my journey into religion began. In the 45 years since, religion is largely punitive, but for me belief in God, Allah SWT, YAHWEH has only grown.

Ellen Brown,
It is good that you seem to have a certain zeal for God, but you must think deeply, meditate on the Scriptures.
The Bible tells us that God is a Jealous God, requiring Exclusive devotion, Exodus 20:3-7.
The Almighty God who made heaven and earth and all the things in them, also has the life of everything in His hand, Acts 17:24-31.
The Tetragrammaton, YHWH, the Hebrew letters for God’s Sacred Name, are pronounced differently, depending on the language, but the pronunciation, in English, is Jehovah. Jehovah put His Name in His Holy Bible almost 7,000 Times, in the Original Autographs, of the Hebrew Scriptures. Jehovah is God’s Personal, Proper Name, which cannot be, rightly used by anyone else, because it means, He Causes to Become. No one else can cause everything to come true as He has Purposed, Isaiah 55:11, 44:25-28.
It is vital to keep in mind that Jehovah hates the worship of false gods, and He says that he will destroy all false gods, and all the people who worship them, Jeremiah 10:10-15,25, Psalms 115:1-8, Matthew 4:10.

 

[whirlingmerc]

There's a series of questions that popped into my mind while I was thinking about belief and whether it is a choice. If it is a choice, then surely there is a way to achieve belief. So here's the questions:

In your religion, what does someone who doesn't believe have to do to believe?

Does this process take a long time?

If your belief involves god(s), do your god(s) reply back in a voice, a sign, or something else?

How do you know it to be real and not your imagination?

What if this person does everything but still doesn't believe?

You can answer the questions however you want, you can pick and chose the ones applicable or if the questions aren't quite right, you can explain your perspective.

I personally don't have any answers because I don't have a belief, per say but I'd love to hear from different religions. I am open to challenging my non-belief.

Edit: remembered some religions don't have gods or aren't so deity focused, so edited the questions to be more inclusive.

Romans 10:4 says "If you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead you will be saved"

It cannot be mere words but fruit of a changed life. Part is a change in one's heart that has a fruit in one's lips and a changed life


Adjacent psalms that tell a story

 

[syo]

In your religion, what does someone who doesn't believe have to do to believe?

Someone who doesn't believe, doesn't know. When they gain knowledge, they will believe.

Does this process take a long time?

It depends the person.

If your belief involves god(s), do your god(s) reply back in a voice, a sign, or something else?

Only through dream-state of mind.

How do you know it to be real and not your imagination?

If it makes sense and is universal, it's real.

What if this person does everything but still doesn't believe?

Religion is only for free people.

 

[viole]

There's a series of questions that popped into my mind while I was thinking about belief and whether it is a choice. If it is a choice, then surely there is a way to achieve belief. So here's the questions:

In your religion, what does someone who doesn't believe have to do to believe?

Does this process take a long time?

If your belief involves god(s), do your god(s) reply back in a voice, a sign, or something else?

How do you know it to be real and not your imagination?

What if this person does everything but still doesn't believe?

You can answer the questions however you want, you can pick and chose the ones applicable or if the questions aren't quite right, you can explain your perspective.

I personally don't have any answers because I don't have a belief, per say but I'd love to hear from different religions. I am open to challenging my non-belief.

Edit: remembered some religions don't have gods or aren't so deity focused, so edited the questions to be more inclusive.

Apparently it is a gift of God. If you do not get it, is not your fault really.

Ciao

- viole

 

[BilliardsBall]

There's a series of questions that popped into my mind while I was thinking about belief and whether it is a choice. If it is a choice, then surely there is a way to achieve belief. So here's the questions:

In your religion, what does someone who doesn't believe have to do to believe?

Does this process take a long time?

If your belief involves god(s), do your god(s) reply back in a voice, a sign, or something else?

How do you know it to be real and not your imagination?

What if this person does everything but still doesn't believe?

You can answer the questions however you want, you can pick and chose the ones applicable or if the questions aren't quite right, you can explain your perspective.

I personally don't have any answers because I don't have a belief, per say but I'd love to hear from different religions. I am open to challenging my non-belief.

Edit: remembered some religions don't have gods or aren't so deity focused, so edited the questions to be more inclusive.

The Bible says that a person who hears the Bible, can meld their Bible understanding with trusting Jesus personally, to be saved, changed and have more faith.

This process can happen slowly or rapidly.

 

[Twilight Hue]

What you are describing is not faith, but blind pretense. Unfortunately, some religions preach that blind pretense is faith, and that it must be practiced as faith if one is to adhere to the religion. But they are lying to us. Blind pretense is not faith, it is a form of dishonesty, and of willful ignorance. True faith is a choice made in the awareness of our unknowing. It is not a pretense of knowing based on some false super-human authority.

That makes me wonder if information changes, will faith be changed?

 

[Ellen Brown]

Ellen Brown,
It is good that you seem to have a certain zeal for God, but you must think deeply, meditate on the Scriptures.
The Bible tells us that God is a Jealous God, requiring Exclusive devotion, Exodus 20:3-7.
The Almighty God who made heaven and earth and all the things in them, also has the life of everything in His hand, Acts 17:24-31.
The Tetragrammaton, YHWH, the Hebrew letters for God’s Sacred Name, are pronounced differently, depending on the language, but the pronunciation, in English, is Jehovah. Jehovah put His Name in His Holy Bible almost 7,000 Times, in the Original Autographs, of the Hebrew Scriptures. Jehovah is God’s Personal, Proper Name, which cannot be, rightly used by anyone else, because it means, He Causes to Become. No one else can cause everything to come true as He has Purposed, Isaiah 55:11, 44:25-28.
It is vital to keep in mind that Jehovah hates the worship of false gods, and He says that he will destroy all false gods, and all the people who worship them, Jeremiah 10:10-15,25, Psalms 115:1-8, Matthew 4:10.

Your "zeal" for mind reading is offensive to me. You judge without knowing a thing about me. Who do you think you are, saying that I lack devotion to God? On ignore you go.

 

[GoodbyeDave]

My religion does not involve belief.

How do we use the word "believe"? Would you say "I believe seven eights are fifty-six" (unless you had been to a very bad school}? But you might say "I believe she comes from Italy." To say one believes something is to say that one thinks it's probably the case, but one's not sure. We say we believe when the available evidence is not enough to say that we know.

Some religions do depend on belief. Without a time machine, you cannot know whether Jesus rose from the dead, and even the time machine would not enable you to say whether Muhammad really talked to an angel.

But primary religions are based on religious experience. If people worship Apollo, Shiva, Thor, Hathor, or Yemoja it's because either they've had experience of the deity or they know that thousands of others have done so. I no more believe in the existence of Zeus than I believe in the existence of Californium atoms.

 

[nPeace]

There's a series of questions that popped into my mind while I was thinking about belief and whether it is a choice. If it is a choice, then surely there is a way to achieve belief. So here's the questions:

In your religion, what does someone who doesn't believe have to do to believe?

Does this process take a long time?

If your belief involves god(s), do your god(s) reply back in a voice, a sign, or something else?

How do you know it to be real and not your imagination?

What if this person does everything but still doesn't believe?

You can answer the questions however you want, you can pick and chose the ones applicable or if the questions aren't quite right, you can explain your perspective.

I personally don't have any answers because I don't have a belief, per say but I'd love to hear from different religions. I am open to challenging my non-belief.

Edit: remembered some religions don't have gods or aren't so deity focused, so edited the questions to be more inclusive.

I believe the same thing one has to do to believe one is not dreaming.
Pinch yourself. That should do it.

I believe the best way for one to know if something is reasonably acceptable - to believe - is by knowledge and experience.
For example, if someone points out a mound to you, and tells you, that's an ant's nest, and those are red ants, or you read it somewhere, that's knowledge. Now take off your shoes, and step on the ant's nest. That's experience.

That's the best way I can think of right now, to explain how one comes to believe. Knowledge and experience.
Seriously though...
If someone has knowledge, and it is indeed accurate, then they can use their senses to test the knowledge to verify that it is true. They may not have to actually step on the ant's nest, but a bite from one ant will be enough. They logically and reasonably can conclude that only a fool will lie down on a mound of red ants.

Another example...
We know - have accurate knowledge, that it requires both a consciousness, and intelligence, to calculate mathematically, and with precise measurement, any element - compound included - to produce an orderly complex working unit.
We don't have to actually see that conscious intelligent entity at work, but our own experiences seeing this at work in ourselves and other living things, allows us to logically and reasonably conclude that only a - Read Psalms 14:1 - would believe that it requires no conscious intelligent agent to produce the most complex organ known to man - the brain - with which we can experience pleasure from various things not understood by man.

@illykitty
I hope there is at least something in the above that is useful.
However, in direct response to the questions in the OP...

This is my personal view.
I believe one has to take in knowledge from one source or other. They are able to then determine if that knowledge is true, by what they experience, through the use of that knowledge, and use reason and logic to form conclusions. That will lead them to what they believe.

This process can take a long or short time, depending on each individual makeup, background, etc.

Testing what one believes, can help them determine if what they believe is reasonably solid, but it is still a belief. A belief is not always imagined, so one can know if their belief is imagined, or not by testing it and seeing the results,

One can only believe what one chooses to believe, so it is a choice. No one can be forced to believe. An unbelief, is still a belief... in something. For no one believes in nothing. That's still a belief.

IMO.

 

[PureX]

That makes me wonder if information changes, will faith be changed?

Not the act of our trusting in a hoped for unknown, but certainly the things we hope for and trust in change all the time. Especially as the information we have to go on changes.