What does "atheist fundamentalism" mean?

[Reverend Rick]

Even though some refuse to comply, all are told to bow their heads. Even the "you know it's a myth" billboard still only presents an idea for consideration.

No one is told to bow their heads. The people who are praying may be bowing their heads and most have their eyes closed and cannot see anyone who chooses to not participate.

As for the billboard, I can only assume it is just a matter of time till I get a knock on my door from a proseltizing Atheist. :ignore:

 

[idav]

As for the billboard, I can only assume it is just a matter of time till I get a knock on my door from a proseltizing Atheist. :ignore:

Buddhists oughta make a go at it, most popular philosophy wins.:sarcastic

 

[Alceste]

I think so as well.

At the same time, I think the thread is instructive:

• an invocation before a sports event is framed as 'mandatory' prayer despite the likelihood that prayer was not mandate, while
• a billboard that says "You KNOW it's a Myth" is framed as no more than a caring effort on the part of the atheists to let fellow atheists know that they're not alone, despite that the fact that the "You" does not differentiate and the overwhelming majority of those who saw the billboard might easily interpret it as a crude taunt.

An opening prayer at a non-religious sporting event is in fact "mandatory" for the ticket holders, unless they want to get up and leave.

Likewise, a prayer in a public school classroom is "mandatory" for all the students who have to sit through it.

And while the Christian evangelical events being held with increasing frequency by the US military are "officially" non-mandatory, you are likely to get latrine duty if you refuse to attend.

Nobody is forcing anybody to read a billboard.

Besides which, the "you" on the billboard clearly refers to anybody who answered "YES!" to the question "Don't believe in God?" If you said no, the rest is not intended for you. Advertising is pretty basic stuff.

 

[Alceste]

You are correct. It is not the same. But the discomfort or hurt felt by Christians may well have been no less acute, and I say this a someone who would not have all appreciated being in the audience during the invocation.

That's what this thread is getting at. There is in fact a very pervasive double standard if we expect a Christian to feel just as upset by being fleetingly exposed to an atheist billboard as atheists feel when their own children are being perpetually required to pray to the Christian deity at school.

 

[Revoltingest]

....I can only assume it is just a matter of time till I get a knock on my door from a proseltizing Atheist. :ignore:

Could I have your address?
(I go thru KY every now & then.)
You'll recognize me by the Hawaiian shirt & trailer full of old iron.

 

[Alceste]

No one is told to bow their heads. The people who are praying may be bowing their heads and most have their eyes closed and cannot see anyone who chooses to not participate.

As for the billboard, I can only assume it is just a matter of time till I get a knock on my door from a proseltizing Atheist. :ignore:

So, then the prayer sessions in US schools would be a good time for non-theists to play some video games, make phone calls or text their friends, read a book, play cards, catch up on their email, do their yoga stretches, go to the bathroom, or whatever else fills the time? Or do you expect people who are not religious to wait quietly and do nothing that might distract religious people from their praying?

If it's the latter, why not stick to praying only with groups of people who actually want to pray, instead of "anywhere there happens to be a captive audience"?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

No one is told to bow their heads.

I find it very hard to believe that you've never been to an event with an invocation that started with "please bow your heads" (or similar instructions like "let us pray").

 

[outhouse]

Is this science is the devil thread still running??


Education and knowledge bad, very bad!!!

 

[Enai de a lukal]

:ignore:

That's a fairly adequate paraphrase of your (and several others') participation in this thread.

 

[LuisDantas]

That's what this thread is getting at. There is in fact a very pervasive double standard if we expect a Christian to feel just as upset by being fleetingly exposed to an atheist billboard as atheists feel when their own children are being perpetually required to pray to the Christian deity at school.

So very much so.

And that it is mentioned without apparently so much a moment of embarrassment is very revealing, and a very nice opportunity for learning.

 

[Enai de a lukal]

No one is told to bow their heads. The people who are praying may be bowing their heads and most have their eyes closed and cannot see anyone who chooses to not participate.

As for the billboard, I can only assume it is just a matter of time till I get a knock on my door from a proseltizing Atheist. :ignore:

At least the emoticon is honest; sticking your fingers in your ears is more or less what you and several others are doing on this thread.

And of course, let's note the irony in the statement here; maybe you get a door-to-door proselytizing atheist- but it would be the first, as opposed to what is a routine practice for several Christian denominations. Thus, the double standard people are talking about. If atheists try the LEAST of what Christians do routinely, they somehow become arrogant, condescending bullies.

 

[Reverend Rick]

At least the emoticon is honest; sticking your fingers in your ears is more or less what you and several others are doing on this thread.

And of course, let's note the irony in the statement here; maybe you get a door-to-door proselytizing atheist- but it would be the first, as opposed to what is a routine practice for several Christian denominations. Thus, the double standard people are talking about. If atheists try the LEAST of what Christians do routinely, they somehow become arrogant, condescending bullies.

Oh come on now, just how much do you want to embellish this? Do you even see where this is going? People in other countries kill each other over belief issues. Leaders of countries use chemical weapons on folks of unlike mind. Is that the future for the entire world?

We have freedom OF religion not freedom FROM religion. You cannot quote me anywhere saying the billboards should not be allowed. Nowhere have I bullied, condesended or acted arrogant.

I support tolerance and freedom for everyone, not repression.

 

[Enai de a lukal]

Oh come on now, just how much do you want to embellish this? Do you even see where this is going? People in other countries kill each other over belief issues. Leaders of countries use chemical weapons on folks of unlike mind. Is that the future for the entire world?

Um... What? Relevance?

We have freedom OF religion not freedom FROM religion.

Yeah, this is a non-distinction. Freedom of religion logically requires freedom from (any particular) religion. In other words, if we have one, we necessarily have the other. But again, this isn't especially relevant.

You cannot quote me anywhere saying the billboards should not be allowed. Nowhere have I bullied, condesended or acted arrogant.

I didn't say you did. The point is that there is an obvious double standard here: if atheists do half of what Christians do, they become demonized as fundamentalists, as being bullies, condescending, arrogant, whatever. There's also the irony that, in the same post that you (mistakenly) decry generalization about religions or religious groups as a whole as "bigotry", you go on to make a bunch of claims about what atheism is/atheists do. Seriously, this thread is one huge exercise in contradiction and hypocrisy.

 

[Alceste]

Oh come on now, just how much do you want to embellish this? Do you even see where this is going? People in other countries kill each other over belief issues. Leaders of countries use chemical weapons on folks of unlike mind. Is that the future for the entire world?

We have freedom OF religion not freedom FROM religion. You cannot quote me anywhere saying the billboards should not be allowed. Nowhere have I bullied, condesended or acted arrogant.

I support tolerance and freedom for everyone, not repression.

Comparing RF's sizable atheist community to a pack of ducks "quacking louder than anybody else" was pretty condescending and arrogant, IMHO.

I don't think anybody's billboards should be disallowed either. But I DO think children of diverse religions or no religions should not be forced to participate in evangelical Christian observances in tax funded public schools. Likewise, I'm sure you believe religious believers should not be forced to listen to lectures on evolutionary biology in church. So, in that respect, we are exactly the same as one another.

If you want to learn, go to school. If you want to pray, go to church, and never the twain shall meet. That's the world we all want to live in, except for the folks who see every captive audience as an opportunity to pressure others to convert to their religion.

 

[LuisDantas]

If you want to learn, go to school. If you want to pray, go to church, and never the twain shall meet.

To be fair, I must say that the "never shall meet" part of this goal is impossible to attain far as I can conceive. That is why we will always have to exercise good will and discernment.

 

[crossfire]

To be fair, I must say that the "never shall meet" part of this goal is impossible to attain far as I can conceive. That is why we will always have to exercise good will and discernment.

Agreed. Total segregation breeds ignorance and prejudice.

 

[LuisDantas]

That too, although what I argued was that it is not truly possible in the first place.

 

[Alceste]

To be fair, I must say that the "never shall meet" part of this goal is impossible to attain far as I can conceive. That is why we will always have to exercise good will and discernment.

Never say never. They don't meet in Canadian public schools, and that's fine with us. Catholics have a separate, parallel system where the children of Catholics can learn about their parents' religion in school, but for the rest of us it basically doesn't come up, except at home or at church. Most people seem pretty happy with that.

 

[Alceste]

Agreed. Total segregation breeds ignorance and prejudice.

I actually think it breeds diversity, social harmony and inter-faith tolerance. Sometimes ignorance is bliss.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Never say never. They don't meet in Canadian public schools, and that's fine with us. Catholics have a separate, parallel system where the children of Catholics can learn about their parents' religion in school, but for the rest of us it basically doesn't come up, except at home or at church. Most people seem pretty happy with that.

Actually, I have major problems with our system of taxpayer-funded, government-run Catholic schools.