What does God want from you?

[blü 2]

I believe we are all spiritual beings, so yes, spiritual beings exist as entities with objective existence.

I'd distinguish between uses of 'spiritual'. At one level it can denote sensitivity to a particular range of emotions. But at another it's to denote the supernatural and its beings, and there I'd say such things can exist only as concepts / things imagined. The word 'supernatural' ─ literally 'above nature' ─ can only mean 'not in nature,' 'outside of nature', and in that case there's nothing else they can be but conceptual / imaginary.

Otherwise the malls would be full of ghosts, zombies, gods, angels, demons, pixies, goblins, fairies (both the sweet little English ones and the at-your-peril Irish kind), on and on through a tremendous list, jostling elbow to elbow with Brer Rabbit, Sherlock Holmes, Superman, Huckleberry Finn, every character in fiction, every character imaginable. And witches and wizards hired to keep them in order out on strike demanding shorter hours and better pay and full body armor.

 

[F1fan]

God is a Spiritual Being just like you are in your true nature. God is High Intelligence.

Have you really not heard me say these things?

We do. and we reject your claims because 1. they aren't factual, and 2. you offer us no reason to believe you, which requires evidence and a coherent explanation.

Worry not, when you bump into God, there is one thing you will realize. You will realize that you already know God.

Apparently you think that God mingles at cocktail parties.

 

[Trailblazer]

Apparently you think that God mingles at cocktail parties.

 

[Trailblazer]

I'd distinguish between uses of 'spiritual'. At one level it can denote sensitivity to a particular range of emotions. But at another it's to denote the supernatural and its beings, and there I'd say such things can exist only as concepts / things imagined. The word 'supernatural' ─ literally 'above nature' ─ can only mean 'not in nature,' 'outside of nature', and in that case there's nothing else they can be but conceptual / imaginary.

Otherwise the malls would be full of ghosts, zombies, gods, angels, demons, pixies, goblins, fairies (both the sweet little English ones and the at-your-peril Irish kind), on and on through a tremendous list, jostling elbow to elbow with Brer Rabbit, Sherlock Holmes, Superman, Huckleberry Finn, every character in fiction, every character imaginable. And witches and wizards hired to keep them in order out on strike demanding shorter hours and better pay and full body armor.

I did not mean we are spiritual beings in the sense of being supernatural or 'not in nature.'
I was referring to a particular range of emotions and behaviors such as love, mercy, kindness, truth and justice, one and all being expressions of our spiritual nature.

“In man there are two natures; his spiritual or higher nature and his material or lower nature. In one he approaches God, in the other he lives for the world alone. Signs of both these natures are to be found in men. In his material aspect he expresses untruth, cruelty and injustice; all these are the outcome of his lower nature. The attributes of his Divine nature are shown forth in love, mercy, kindness, truth and justice, one and all being expressions of his higher nature. Every good habit, every noble quality belongs to man’s spiritual nature, whereas all his imperfections and sinful actions are born of his material nature. If a man’s Divine nature dominates his human nature, we have a saint.” Paris Talks, p. 60​

 

[ppp]

I did not mean we are spiritual beings in the sense of being supernatural or 'not in nature.'
I was referring to a particular range of emotions and behaviors such as love, mercy, kindness, truth and justice, one and all being expressions of our spiritual nature.

When animals exhibit the same things, is that evidence of their spiritual nature?

 

[Trailblazer]

When animals exhibit the same things, is that evidence of their spiritual nature?

I don't think animals exhibit mercy, truth and justice. Although they might exhibit a form of love and kindness I don't think it comes from a spiritual nature, but rather from their physical nature.

 

[ppp]

I don't think animals exhibit mercy, truth and justice. Although they might exhibit a form of love and kindness I don't think it comes from a spiritual nature, but rather from their physical nature.

No animals exhibit mercy, truth or justice? Not even social mammalian species? How did you reach that conclusion?

 

[Trailblazer]

No animals exhibit mercy, truth or justice? Not even social mammalian species? How did you reach that conclusion?

I don't believe animals have the capacity to be merciful, know truth, or be just. Those are human qualities since we were made in the image of God.

Why do you think animals can be merciful, know truth, or be just? Is there any scientific research that supports that?

 

[ppp]

I don't believe animals have the capacity to be merciful, know truth, or be just. Those are human qualities since we were made in the image of God.

To be clear your method for arriving at the conclusion that no animal exhibits mercy, truth or justice is via the doctrines of your religion?

Does anything else matter when that is your basis for belief. It would seem to make discussion moot

 

[Trailblazer]

To be clear your method for arriving at the conclusion that no animal exhibits mercy, truth or justice is via the doctrines of your religion?

Does anything else matter when that is your basis for belief. It would seem to make discussion moot

Science matters as much as religion. That is why I asked you if there any scientific research that supports that animals exhibit these qualities.

If you think that animals exhibit mercy, truth or justice please tell me what they do to demonstrate those qualities.

 

[ppp]

Science matters as much as religion. That is why I asked you if there any scientific research that supports that animals exhibit these qualities.

If you think that animals exhibit mercy, truth or justice please tell me what they do to demonstrate those qualities.

If science mattered only as much as religion for determining facts about reality, then science would not matter. Science has a continued demonstrable reliability at every resolution. Religions do not

How can you tell that humans, other than yourself, have these traits? You could be the only one.

 

[Trailblazer]

If science mattered only as much as religion for determining facts about reality, then science would not matter. Science has a continued demonstrable reliability at every resolution. Religions do not

How can you tell that humans, other than yourself, have these traits? You could be the only one.

What I meant is that both science and religion are important and neither one is more important than the other. They simply have a different purview.

Both science and religion are necessary for humanity to survive and thrive and make progress. Religion teaches that we must do good, love one another, that we must be generous, sincere, and truthful. This is reasonable, and logically the only way in which humanity can progress. Religion addresses the spiritual part of man, life in this world and the hereafter, whereas science addresses man's physical body and our life in this material world.

I did not say that I have those traits. I said that they are human traits that demonstrate our spiritual nature. Everyone has them to varying degrees.
What makes you think that other animals have those traits? Does science support that opinion?

 

[ppp]

I did not say that I have those traits. I said that they are human traits that demonstrate our spiritual nature. Everyone has them to varying degrees.
What makes you think that other animals have those traits? Does science support that opinion?

My point was not to challenge you on whether you have those traits, but on how you can reach the conclusion the that any other human has a sense of justice, or can have mercy, or can value truth. I can tell it by observing the behaviors that comport with those values. That is the only way I can tell.

Yes. There is a branch of behavioralism that studies morality in animals. I think it is a subdiscipline of ethology. Frans de Waal is a respected name in the field.

 

[TLK Valentine]

That is so trivially true as to be meaningless. I have the belief that if I do not drink water then I will die of dehydration.

Perhaps, but no more meaningless than denying it.

 

[ppp]

Perhaps, but no more meaningless than denying it.

Yeah. I should have erased that when I saw you were caught in Trailblazer's pointless dance of equivocation.

 

[Bird123]

Yes, Baha'is are told to go "teach" the Faith.

"In the Aqdas Bahá’u’lláh considers teaching as a spiritual obligation imposed upon every devoted believer and servant of His Faith. Should the friends become fully conscious of this duty and arise to do their share, this Cause will soon permeate every home throughout the world and the Kingdom of God will be established."​

​

(From a letter written on behalf of the Guardian to an individual believer: Bahá’í News, No. 85, p. 8, July 1934)​

Thanks for the info.

It's a polite way of getting followers. I question God having a kingdom, also that teaching beliefs would create a kingdom. Kingdom reflects mankind's view of ruling and controlling. It is one of the petty things mankind holds so dear. When one reaches a Higher Level, ruling and controlling will no longer be viable choices one could make!!

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Trailblazer]

I question God having a kingdom, also that teaching beliefs would create a kingdom. Kingdom reflects mankind's view of ruling and controlling.

It is called the Kingdom of God because that is how the Bible referred to it, but it is not God's Kingdom and God does not rule or control it.
It is a new world order that will be built by humans.

“Beseech ye the one true God to grant that all men may be graciously assisted to fulfil that which is acceptable in Our sight. Soon will the present-day order be rolled up, and a new one spread out in its stead. Verily, thy Lord speaketh the truth, and is the Knower of things unseen.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 7

 

[Bird123]

Why do you persist in preaching when it's clear that those you're targeting aren't interested in your spiritual beliefs? Furthermore, why is it important to you what these other members believe or don't believe? Do you believe that repeating the same verbiage will persuade them to change their minds?

I was asked a question and answered it. I am not targeting anyone. I do not want people to value Beliefs. I do not want people to Believe me. On the other hand, I point to where one can Discover these things for themselves. I make no demands. Other's journey or choices have never been up to me. Is it so bad to simply place truth in the world???

Yes, I bet much of what I say in my responses does sound like repetition. I can not change what is. Ask me what color the sky is and the answer is blue regardless of how often I am asked. If what is changes, how can it be the truth??

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Bird123]

Spiritual beings exist only as ideas, concepts, things imagined. They don't exist as entities with objective existence.

That's why they're as many and as various as characters in fiction ─ that's essentially what they are.


I take your failure to provide a satisfactory description of a real god to be an acknowledgement that you have none.

Do you not know who you are? You are a Spiritual being yourself. You are trapped in a physical body because this binds you to the physical laws of this universe? Why? The time-based causal nature of the universe is Perfect for Learning.

Find a nice quiet dark place away from all distractions. Close your eyes and focus inward. Say to yourself: It's me. That is who you really are. That physical body is no more than your transportation in this world.

Still having problems seeing the difference between who you are and your physical body, seek out the very youngest of children. Many can tell the difference between their physical bodies and who they really are. They must be very young because this physical world has so much sensory input that it isn't long before one is seduced into thinking this physical world is all there is.

Do you want to see a view of God? The very youngest children have recently left God's arms. Look closely and one can see God's reflection in them. By reflection, I do not mean a picture. I mean to who God really is.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Bird123]

I am telling you that. Baha'is tell people that whether or not they follow the religion or not has to be their own choice.
Baha'is do not tell people following us is the only way one can get close to God. We tell them there are many approaches to God.

No, God can also be known through His creation. Everything in creation reveals the attributes of God.

“Whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth is a direct evidence of the revelation within it of the attributes and names of God, inasmuch as within every atom are enshrined the signs that bear eloquent testimony to the revelation of that Most Great Light.....​

​

…From that which hath been said it becometh evident that all things, in their inmost reality, testify to the revelation of the names and attributes of God within them. Each according to its capacity, indicateth, and is expressive of, the knowledge of God. So potent and universal is this revelation, that it hath encompassed all things visible and invisible....” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 178-179​

There is no such place as hell. According to Baha'i beliefs, hell is only a state of the soul who is distant from God.
The Baha'i Faith does not teach that humans are flawed from birth. It teaches that we were born good.
Quite the contrary, the Baha'i Faith teaches that humans are the noblest and most perfect of all created things.
Quite the contrary, the Baha'i Faith teaches that there is no We against They, as we are all One People.

I cannot speak for other religions, only my own. No, we are not supposed to wait for people to Discover the Baha'i Faith, we are supposed to tell people about it, but we are not supposed to try to convert anyone. Again, belief has to be a choice. If we did not tell people about the religion very few people would know about it. There are relatively few Baha'is compared to the other major religions so not that many people know about it or what it teaches.

In other words, live and learn through trial and error and thereby make a better choice next time. Learning through experience.

Thanks for the info.

Why is it taught only messengers know God? You keep telling me only messengers can know God. All I hear about are those messengers from God telling people what they should do and how they should live. God sends no one to intimidate those free choices.

Don't they teach Faith??? Don't they teach to Believe?? This alone shows me it is not God.

Names of God???? God has no names.

Trail and error is part of it. More accurate is learning through one's own free choices. There is much more to free choices than trial and error.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!