What does God want from you?

[Bird123]

There are logical constraints just by the paradigm. Logic is foundation of all possible worlds. You can't break the rules of logic.

The trade-off is there. He could created a world with no possibility of anyone going astray, but that is not the world we are in clearly. Why?

To you nothing went wrong, it is how it is. To me if this is true, then my parents were tortured because God knew they would be before he brought them to the world. And not only that, their torturers will go to heaven all the same with anyone else. And according to you there are no ranks, no lower or higher. So it's all in vain.

The world of suffering just doesn't make sense to me, unless, it's a world of trial.

Imam Musa Al-Khadhim (a) would get his torturers to repent to God often, so it's not that I say hate alone. But I say when a soul doesn't repent, doesn't fix itself, then it becomes unredeemable and unredeemable souls I think should be punished.

But even if God would not punish them with physical pain, eventually, their souls will face similar or even greater torment spiritually as they ascend and return to God and have been evil. And this return will happen. Day of judgment just speeds up the process, but give enough time it will happen.

So really, God is displaying physical pain and threats, but is trying to save souls from inevitable reality they are going to if they become evil.

In a ziyarat of Imam Ali (a) we say "Peace be upon you O who is the chastisement of the people of hell" but Ali (a) won't be personally punishing anyone, it means his light will burn the dark souls that all other pains physically become insignificant compared to that.

That - intoxication of hate - God can't remove. It's just you can't remove it unless the soul comes willingly to God and his light. The soul must be at peace.

While there is time, we ought to try. Because once we die, coming back, we will break promise again. God knows the logical contraints, and so warns us about hell.

It's not about limiting God. God can do logical possible things. But those by nature are limited by constraints. It's just the nature of logic that there will be constraints and trade-offs. God works with reality from that framework.

Logic is necessary in all possible worlds. You can't get rid of those rules.

You value the petty things mankind holds so dear. You want to Hate, Judge, Condemn and Punish with Revenge and Payback. If you attempt to alter the actions of others through pain, what are you teaching your children, to Love? Hardly. Where is the Love much less than the Unconditional Love we each will learn in time?

God returns our actions and choices back to us so that we might Discover what our actions and choices really mean. This is not punishment. This is education at it's best. God returns ALL our actions and choices. The good choices return as well to teach us what those choices really mean. Don't you see? There is no reason to value all those petty things mankind holds so dear.

In a multilevel classroom, one will see others learning lessons one has already learned. Is that reason to Hate? Of course not. Why not? Hate will NEVER bring the best results!!

So as one looks at all those returning actions, it is a reminder of what the best choices really are. Looking at all those lessons, it might seem like a mess, however there is great learning going on multi-angular in so many ways and on so many levels.

Is there more? With God, there is always more to Discover. There are wonderful souls who volunteer to go through great pain and adversity so that another might see and understand. These can be seen all around us teaching us through their Unconditional Love and example. It is sometimes easy to focus only on the hurt, however the goodness walks with us as well only it seems to get less attention.

We all have the Power to Choose what we deem important. Which will bring the best results? Choose freely and you will Discover that for yourself. There is no need to tell you which. Actions speak louder than words. That is why we are all Living those Lessons!! There has never ever been a need for holy books. God's system runs without help or manipulation from others. It's just more lessons for some to learn!!

Like I said before, our choices show God and the world what we know and what we need to learn. Each will choose what they want to learn. Look again! Do all those petty things mankind holds so dear look like good choices? Only you can decide for yourself.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[amorphous_constellation]

OK. God creates the universe and God creates you. What does God want from you?

If you are an atheist, speculate. If God really exists and creates the universe and God creates you. What does God want from you?

Before you just give a quick answer, consider a Being capable of creating the universe and you has to be very very smart. Consider High Intellect with your answers. Make God's answer High Intellect.

Well, I think I have rough idea about it, but in my case, I don't think it has as much to do with intellectual attainment, as other things. I think the higher level is beckoning me, or offering me, a possibility to be more creative. And maybe, this is essential in my becoming a fully formed human. I came into the world with problems and barriers. Everyone does. But I simply was not formed very smoothly, and it's been a life with a lot of confusion and slow progress

The 'metaphorical staff of god,' or the key power that comes from the higher level, is the power to create. Therefore, god's metaphorical staff is like a living tree that extends deep into the earth, and far up into heaven. The human form can perhaps be conceptualized as the water of that tree, and perhaps also the seed, and the fruit. I know that I am suddenly getting highly abstract. I will try to explain, a little bit

In short, I think that without making myself into a creative force, that my soul/body/mind/purpose with remain like unformed and unused water, metaphorically. Perhaps it would stagnate. Perhaps it would need to be recycled elsewhere. But as long I am alive in this form, the best thing for me to do, I think, is to seek for creative venues. I am a musician, and artist, and writer. These things need to go somewhere, somehow. Or else, they will simply not get successfully used, and I will be undefined

 

[Bird123]

Describe this real God, so that if I encounter a real suspect I can determine whether it's God or not.

Haven't we been through this before? God is a Spiritual Being of High Intelligence. You already know God so if you do not already know God when you bump into God, It's not God!!!

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Bird123]

What you do is invent Beliefs to 'try' to fill in the gaps, what can never be known about God.
Then, by virtue of your Beliefs, you think you know something about God that the rest of us do not know.

Religion does not teach people to value Beliefs. Religion teaches people to live by the teachings that were revealed by the Messengers of God.

Through His Messengers, God has revealed what He wants humanity to know, what we need to know and are able to understand.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

What one has are beliefs. On the other hand, if one acquires a certain amount of Understanding, one might just get a visit from God. Those beliefs will no longer be beliefs at this point. You will know.

God needs no middlemen nor messengers. They would serve no purpose and through their intimidate would interfere with the journey and God's system at hand. Sure, they might teach some goodness, however goodness is not all they are teaching. They are teaching others to value the petty things mankind holds so dear.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Bird123]

Thanks. It's part of my plan, too, although I'd word it 'be your best self.'

And I like your theology. It's not significantly different from my own atheistic, humanistic worldview except that you use the word God. There's nothing Abrahamic about it. Your deity doesn't appear to give orders, make threats, demean mankind, disesteem nature, or demand attention. A god belief shouldn't make a person feel small, inadequate, or guilty for holding it.

I use the word truth exclusively to mean the quality that demonstrably correct ideas possess. The truth then was that birds can fly. Just how wasn't known yet.

Or remove the concept of god altogether and recognize that existence feels unlikely and be grateful to exist in such a beautiful world as earth, where love and contentment are possible.

That's not what I see, and with all due respect, even though you might, I don't believe that you see a god clearly.

Worry not. You will bump into God at some point and then you will Know. On the other hand, this physical life isn't about believing in God. Each will learn, in time, what the best choices really are. Look around you. Those in your life are there for a reason. Interaction is part of the learning process.

Each must choose and learn for themselves. No one can do that for them. I merely copy God by placing truth in the world so it can be around when others are ready to Discover it for themselves.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Bird123]

I see it as opportunity to prove ourselves to God and set up our footing so it travels to God. However, I see most humans failing in this respect and there is not much that we are doing about it. I sometimes wonder what I can do. But if I can do something, it will be something on the lines of unbinding the knots from sorcery upon the Quran. Breaking those locks for people. Maybe if I can do that for Muslims and make them see family of Mohammad (s) in the Quran, things will change.

Perhaps before placing focus on the lessons others are learning, one should focus on ourselves. Actions speak louder than words. One teaches much more through their actions and choices than through preaching, telling, judging, condemning, threatening or intimidating. Teaching others to value the petty things mankind holds so dear will never be a footing to God.

God is Unconditional Love. Unconditional Love always does what is best for the other. Become this and your footing will be well in place. You will stop hating and valuing the petty things mankind holds so dear toward others. The world can change before your eyes if you see what actually is.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[YoursTrue]

The Hebrew word paniy from Deuteronomy 10:17 can be translated as person.

Persons and human beings are different things, although both words are used to describe beings that have no connection to deity.

They are? I don't mind learning new things...can you please explain, thank you.

 

[YoursTrue]

Yes... everybody has a better way... we can make ourselves our own gods too.

that is true, thank you for that thought.

 

[Link]

Unconditional Love always does what is best for the other.

It favors the evil people and equates them with the good. I don't see how that is best, why it's best for oppressors to get away with their crimes for example.

 

[Trailblazer]

What one has are beliefs. On the other hand, if one acquires a certain amount of Understanding, one might just get a visit from God. Those beliefs will no longer be beliefs at this point. You will know.

Nobody ever gets a visit from God.

God needs no middlemen nor messengers. They would serve no purpose and through their intimidate would interfere with the journey and God's system at hand.

God's system is to send messengers. They interfere with nobody's choices or journey because they intimidate nobody.

Sure, they might teach some goodness, however goodness is not all they are teaching. They are teaching others to value the petty things mankind holds so dear.

They are teaching what you believe is petty, things like laws and justice, which are anything but petty.
What God holds dear is justice.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Link]

You value the petty things mankind holds so dear. You want to Hate, Judge, Condemn and Punish with Revenge and Payback. If you attempt to alter the actions of others through pain, what are you teaching your children, to Love?

I'm teaching that good and evil are not equal, nor will they have the same end. If you see that as petty, so be it. People create their own hole in this respect. If death is not enough of a time ticker to stress the soul to be good, then nothing will pressure it. If people choose to not want God to guide, then that teaches there is no reason to try to guide others.

He set up the system so every soul get what it strives for.

God must lead by example. He must do his best to guide humanity and restore them to justice. His word (Quran) is a mercy, admonishment, guidance, and a healing. It then anoints guides. You see that as manipulation of Mohammad (S) and his family (a). It would be if they were false, but it's nothing but loving them and recognizing them for their chosen status if they are true.

 

[Trailblazer]

I'm teaching that good and evil are not equal, nor will they have the same end.

That is also what Baha'u'llah taught.

“Let no one imagine that by Our assertion that all created things are the signs of the revelation of God is meant that—God forbid—all men, be they good or evil, pious or infidel, are equal in the sight of God. Nor doth it imply that the Divine Being—magnified be His name and exalted be His glory—is, under any circumstances, comparable unto men, or can, in any way, be associated with His creatures. Such an error hath been committed by certain foolish ones who, after having ascended into the heavens of their idle fancies, have interpreted Divine Unity to mean that all created things are the signs of God, and that, consequently, there is no distinction whatsoever between them.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 187

 

[blü 2]

Haven't we been through this before? God is a Spiritual Being of High Intelligence. You already know God so if you do not already know God when you bump into God, It's not God!!!

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

But didn't you say God was real, not imaginary? Please clarify, because if God is real then God has a description appropriate to a real entity, no?

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

God is a Spiritual Being of High Intelligence.

He asked you to "Describe this real God, so that if I encounter a real suspect, I can determine whether it's God or not." I'm pretty sure he knows that you can't, nor did you, and the point is that discussions about gods are really discussions about nothing specific, just vague intuitions. I have similar intuitions involving a sense of the mysterious and awe for what reality is as well as a sense of connection to it and gratitude for being able to participate in it, but I don't identify such notions with gods or anything else specific. It's just nature in all its splendor.

this physical life isn't about believing in God. Each will learn, in time, what the best choices really are. Look around you. Those in your life are there for a reason. Interaction is part of the learning process. Each must choose and learn for themselves. No one can do that for them.

I already have no gods, and yes, I learned what works through experience (trial and error). I know why the people in my life are there, and in many cases, the reason is because I want and put them there.

Unconditional Love always does what is best for the other

Unconditional love should be limited to very young humans and nature. Unconditional love for all adult humans is a pretty bad idea. Love is a relationship with another in which one offers protection, shares resources including time, and is generally interested in the well-being of that other. There are conditions for that. One is that you not be an enemy. I don't love enemies. And if I have loved another who willingly harms me, the love is diminished or ends. I see no benefit to any other attitude.

Who benefits from the notion of unconditional love? Only the unlovable one. Here's a better idea than me loving such a person unconditionally. How about if they can't return the love - and I'm excluding people too young to do that - that they learn and give to others what they expect in return or learn to live alone or with others like themselves. That's conditional love and the way I live my life. As I said, I've learned what works through experience (trial and error), and unconditional love is a bad idea.

Become this and your footing will be well in place. You will stop hating and valuing the petty things mankind holds so dear toward others.

That's a separate issue - attachment. Happiness includes both distancing oneself from destructive people and learning to be happy with what you have. That was another lesson life taught me.

It favors the evil people and equates them with the good. I don't see how that is best, why it's best for oppressors to get away with their crimes for example.

I agree with you here. This doctrine of unconditional love is only good for what you call evil people. I tolerate the tolerant. I love the loveable, which excludes the intolerant, the selfish, and the disloyal. That's how I've arranged my life, and that's my model for society in general - tolerate (and facilitate, which is love) the tolerant, and send the rest away to go cheat and betray one another. Thise are conditions for love.

 

[Bird123]

God could but God doesn't. God leaves it to humans to fix themselves or not do so. That is why we have free will to choose.

Why would God not fix His children? Sure. people have free will, however God counts on free will. One could never be truly fixed without free will. The parameters God places around one leads one to the fix. When one understands all sides, Intelligence will make the best choices. That is the fix.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Bird123]

It is not my belief, it is my observation. All you have are beliefs, what you believe you have Discovered.

Messengers of God did not have to Discover anything because they either have innate knowledge or knowledge from God.
Messengers of God do not have to patch any gap in their knowledge since they have all knowledge.

What you might not realize is that you are choosing to follow your own beliefs to patch their gap in your knowledge.

You have found no religion that you believe understands God. The reason you have found no religion that you believe understands God is because you believe you understand God, and what you believe about God is contradictory to what religion teaches.

God did not anyone a messenger to 'tell people' what choices they should make. God sends messengers to reveal what God wants people to know, and then it is their choice whether to accept , reject, or follow the teachings of the messenger.

You think you know what system God has put in place, but there is no way for you to know that without the messengers, who explain what system God has put in place.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

How can an observation determine whether one has a fact or it is merely a belief? If you do not know the facts, does that really make everything a belief? Granted, I can state a fact and since you have no proof that what I say is a fact, you must patch your gap with beliefs. It is not I who am dealing with beliefs. It is you!!

OK, I'll be open. You said messengers tell people what God wants so what is it you think God wants?? Show me God.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Bird123]

You believe you know what God is doing. Nobody knows what God is doing.
All we can know is that God sent messengers. Not even the messengers know what God is doing.

God hides nothing. Simply because you do not know what God is doing doesn't mean nobody knows. In a time-based causal universe, God's actions can be seen. Understand God's actions and you will not only understand God, but you will see what God is doing.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Bird123]

Well, I think I have rough idea about it, but in my case, I don't think it has as much to do with intellectual attainment, as other things. I think the higher level is beckoning me, or offering me, a possibility to be more creative. And maybe, this is essential in my becoming a fully formed human. I came into the world with problems and barriers. Everyone does. But I simply was not formed very smoothly, and it's been a life with a lot of confusion and slow progress

The 'metaphorical staff of god,' or the key power that comes from the higher level, is the power to create. Therefore, god's metaphorical staff is like a living tree that extends deep into the earth, and far up into heaven. The human form can perhaps be conceptualized as the water of that tree, and perhaps also the seed, and the fruit. I know that I am suddenly getting highly abstract. I will try to explain, a little bit

In short, I think that without making myself into a creative force, that my soul/body/mind/purpose with remain like unformed and unused water, metaphorically. Perhaps it would stagnate. Perhaps it would need to be recycled elsewhere. But as long I am alive in this form, the best thing for me to do, I think, is to seek for creative venues. I am a musician, and artist, and writer. These things need to go somewhere, somehow. Or else, they will simply not get successfully used, and I will be undefined

There is intellectual attainment in creativity. Have you really learned nothing on your journey? How are you now from when you first started your journey? I bet it is the difference from day and night.

Adversity can lead to learning. Can you really say you would be where you are today without the adversity or challenges in your life?

Sounds like you are on a good path. And yes, it does lead to God.

This world is a mosaic, a masterpiece. How would the picture look without the creative in this world? I certainly would not want a world without it. Perhaps, you can point others to the Intelligence of creativity. Show others the Math.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Scouser]

What do we want from God.....

 

[Bird123]

It favors the evil people and equates them with the good. I don't see how that is best, why it's best for oppressors to get away with their crimes for example.

Who is getting away? To be able to create a Heavenly state for oneself and others, one must Discover for oneself what the best choices really are. Many choose some very hard lessons for themselves.

Let it go!! Allow God to do the teaching!! Since all God's children will make it in time, the lessons one chooses for oneself could never be ignored or forgotten. The wisdom would never be acquired if one hangs onto or believes the bad choices are good ones. Each will Discover the answers for themselves through their free choices and the lessons God returns so the best choices can be Discovered.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!