What does God want from you?

[YoursTrue]

The human condition is political/social. It doesn't have an ethical base that would support the existence of rights.


Only to the extent that those systems of law have an ethical basis. One basis is divine law, another is contract.

So called divine laws are different, one divinity to another.

 

[Ebionite]

So called divine laws are different, one divinity to another.

The only contemporary law I'm aware of originates from the dooms/judgments of King Alfred the Great, which begins with a Saxon version of the ten commandments.

 

[YoursTrue]

The only contemporary law I'm aware of originates from the dooms/judgments of King Alfred the Great, which begins with a Saxon version of the ten commandments.

(smile) ok I wasn't thinking in that direction. Take care and have a nice day.

 

[Ebionite]

(smile) ok I wasn't thinking in that direction. Take care and have a nice day.

Yeah, your sig pretty much gives the game away.

 

[Bird123]

God is not a person or a Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the Bounty if God that comes from God through the Messengers.

What God wants for humanity is revealed through God's Messengers.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

The Holy Spirit is a Bounty??? How can one get messages through a Bounty. God doesn't need Holy Spirits, Messengers or Bounties.

If God wanted for humanity what messengers reveal, why didn't God send people at a Higher Level that would not value and teach so many of the petty things mankind holds so dear?

Is it really an Intelligent act to send messengers? If God implanted the information, everyone would get a copy and the message would be exact and could not be altered by a messenger. Why use a messenger? Tell the person directly?

Your Math is faulty.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Bird123]

I have no children.
God helps His children my sending the Messengers who bring a message, teachings and laws.

Ask any parent. It takes much more than messages, teachings, and laws.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Bird123]

That's true.

My beliefs put no limits on me but God puts limits on what is revealed through the messengers.

Your Beliefs are creating limits for you. You can never advance beyond what the messengers know. Clearly, the Belief patch the messengers are using reflects them instead of God.

With God, it isn't about Believing, Accepting, Following or even Good verses Evil. Is has never been a WE against They. All God's children are Equal in God's eyes regardless of any choices they make. It isn't God who is Judging, Condemning, Blaming, Punishing, Hating, Intimidating or Coercing.

God hides nothing!!!! All the secrets of God and the universe stare us all in the face. Can you see or do the limits you place on yourself get in the way?

In reality, God sends no messengers to tell anyone what choices they should make. Free choices are an important part of God's system. To intimidate or coerce the choices of others would go against the system God has in place. There are many lessons to learn around this.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Bird123]

Of course not. High Intelligence is a judgment made by a human, not a thing that exists independently.

You can't run into a disembodied High Intelligence anywhere.

For God to be real, God needs to be physically real, like the zebra or the grain of sand or the shoe or the Higgs boson.

Are you now limiting existence to the physical world and anything that is not physical does not exist? I can not change what actually exists in order to fit it in your box of Beliefs. You are going to have to expand your view and thinking in order to venture into undiscovered country to find what you have no clue about.

How about starting with yourself? You are a Spiritual being trapped in a physical body. Your consciousness is not physical. Wanting, Loving, and Feeling are not physical. Start exploring beyond that box of beliefs. There is much more to Discover.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Trailblazer]

The Holy Spirit is a Bounty??? How can one get messages through a Bounty.

The Holy Spirit is the Bounty of God that comes from God through the Messengers.

Question.—What is the Holy Spirit?​

​

Answer.—The Holy Spirit is the Bounty of God and the luminous rays which emanate from the Manifestations; for the focus of the rays of the Sun of Reality was Christ, and from this glorious focus, which is the Reality of Christ, the Bounty of God reflected upon the other mirrors which were the reality of the Apostles. The descent of the Holy Spirit upon the Apostles signifies that the glorious divine bounties reflected and appeared in their reality. Moreover, entrance and exit, descent and ascent, are characteristics of bodies and not of spirits—that is to say, sensible realities enter and come forth, but intellectual subtleties and mental realities, such as intelligence, love, knowledge, imagination and thought, do not enter, nor come forth, nor descend, but rather they have direct connection. Some Answered Questions, p. 108​

​

25: THE HOLY SPIRIT​

God communicates to the Messengers through the Holy Spirit.

“God is My witness, O people! I was asleep on My couch, when lo, the Breeze of God wafting over Me roused Me from My slumber. His quickening Spirit revived Me, and My tongue was unloosed to voice His Call. Accuse Me not of having transgressed against God. Behold Me, not with your eyes but with Mine. Thus admonisheth you He Who is the Gracious, the All-Knowing.” Gleanings, pp. 90-91​

God doesn't need Holy Spirits, Messengers or Bounties.

You do not know what God needs. Only God knows that.

If God wanted for humanity what messengers reveal, why didn't God send people at a Higher Level that would not value and teach so many of the petty things mankind holds so dear?

That is what God did. The Messengers are a Higher Level than ordinary humans. They do not value anything petty.

Is it really an Intelligent act to send messengers? If God implanted the information, everyone would get a copy and the message would be exact and could not be altered by a messenger. Why use a messenger? Tell the person directly?

Ordinary humans cannot hear God speaking through the Holy Spirit because they don't have a divine mind, as the Messengers do.

If God could implant the same information He revealed to the Messengers into every human mind, then man would not have a choice to accept it or reject it. He would be compelled to accept it since it would be implanted in him.

 

[Trailblazer]

Ask any parent. It takes much more than messages, teachings, and laws.

God is not a parent who has children.
To compare God to a human parent and expect God to behave like a human parent is the fallacy of false equivalence.

False equivalence is a logical fallacy in which an equivalence is drawn between two subjects based on flawed or false reasoning. This fallacy is categorized as a fallacy of inconsistency.[1] A colloquial expression of false equivalency is "comparing apples and oranges".​

​

This fallacy is committed when one shared trait between two subjects is assumed to show equivalence, especially in order of magnitude, when equivalence is not necessarily the logical result.[2] False equivalence is a common result when an anecdotal similarity is pointed out as equal, but the claim of equivalence doesn't bear scrutiny because the similarity is based on oversimplification or ignorance of additional factors.​

False equivalence - Wikipedia​

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Trailblazer]

Your Beliefs are creating limits for you. You can never advance beyond what the messengers know.

No, that is not true at all. Baha'is are instructed to continue seeking knowledge till the end of their lives, and in the next life! We are not limited to what the Messenger has revealed. Knowledge is knowledge.

Clearly, the Belief patch the messengers are using reflects them instead of God.

What the Messengers reveal is what humans need and are capable of understanding at the time of revelation.
Just as Christ held back some of what He knew back in His day, Baha’u’llah held back some of what He knew in this day because we are not capable of comprehending it yet...

“Oh, would that the world could believe Me! Were all the things that lie enshrined within the heart of Bahá, and which the Lord, His God, the Lord of all names, hath taught Him, to be unveiled to mankind, every man on earth would be dumbfounded.......​

​

Of these truths some can be disclosed only to the extent of the capacity of the repositories of the light of Our knowledge, and the recipients of Our hidden grace.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 176​

In the future more of God’s truth will be revealed, more and more in each successive age.

With God, it isn't about Believing, Accepting, Following or even Good verses Evil. Is has never been a WE against They. All God's children are Equal in God's eyes regardless of any choices they make. It isn't God who is Judging, Condemning, Blaming, Punishing, Hating, Intimidating or Coercing.

Now you are speaking for God, as if you know what thinks. You are completely clueless as to what God thinks since you have no way to know.
Everything you believe about God is an ego projection.

No, all humans (not God's children, because God has no children) are not equal in God's Eyes. Quite the contrary.

“Let no one imagine that by Our assertion that all created things are the signs of the revelation of God is meant that—God forbid—all men, be they good or evil, pious or infidel, are equal in the sight of God.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 187​

God hides nothing!!!! All the secrets of God and the universe stare us all in the face. Can you see or do the limits you place on yourself get in the way?

God hides everything that He chooses to hide. Nothing is staring us in the face. All we can know of God is what the Messengers reveal.

In reality, God sends no messengers to tell anyone what choices they should make. Free choices are an important part of God's system. To intimidate or coerce the choices of others would go against the system God has in place. There are many lessons to learn around this.

God's Messengers do not 'tell people' what choices they should make. It is a free choice whether to believe in the Messengers and follow what they reveal. How many times have I told you this?

 

[blü 2]

Are you now limiting existence to the physical world and anything that is not physical does not exist?

As I said, things can exist in two ways. They can be real, have objective existence, by reason of being found in nature, the world external to the self, which we know about through our senses.

Or they can exist only as concepts, notions, abstractions, generalizations, things imagined, in an individual brain, with no real counterpart.

In which case the physical aspect of their existence is the set of brain-states and brain processes associated with their storage, retrieval and conscious reviewing.

I can not change what actually exists in order to fit it in your box of Beliefs.

That's fine, but please explain to me what in your view 'actually exists' and how I may satisfy myself I should agree.

You are going to have to expand your view and thinking in order to venture into undiscovered country to find what you have no clue about.

Are you saying that you indeed 'have a clue' about it? That you can describe it and its qualities to me? I ask because you haven't given any such impression so far.

How about starting with yourself? You are a Spiritual being trapped in a physical body.

I have no option but to start with myself, a situation everyone finds themself in. I haven't even seen a definition of 'spiritual' that can be reconciled with observation. Do you have one?

Your consciousness is not physical. Wanting, Loving, and Feeling are not physical. Start exploring beyond that box of beliefs. There is much more to Discover.

It's not as if I've avoided looking at the question. My consciousness is one of the states induced by my entirely physical brain. So is sleep. So is unconsciousness ─ indeed I'd argue that the effectiveness of anesthetics is a very simple demonstration of the physicality of the origins and nature of consciousness.

On what reasoned basis should I think otherwise?

 

[muhammad_isa]

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

..got a new signature?

 

[Bird123]

The Holy Spirit is the Bounty of God that comes from God through the Messengers.

Question.—What is the Holy Spirit?​

​

Answer.—The Holy Spirit is the Bounty of God and the luminous rays which emanate from the Manifestations; for the focus of the rays of the Sun of Reality was Christ, and from this glorious focus, which is the Reality of Christ, the Bounty of God reflected upon the other mirrors which were the reality of the Apostles. The descent of the Holy Spirit upon the Apostles signifies that the glorious divine bounties reflected and appeared in their reality. Moreover, entrance and exit, descent and ascent, are characteristics of bodies and not of spirits—that is to say, sensible realities enter and come forth, but intellectual subtleties and mental realities, such as intelligence, love, knowledge, imagination and thought, do not enter, nor come forth, nor descend, but rather they have direct connection. Some Answered Questions, p. 108​

​

25: THE HOLY SPIRIT​

God communicates to the Messengers through the Holy Spirit.

“God is My witness, O people! I was asleep on My couch, when lo, the Breeze of God wafting over Me roused Me from My slumber. His quickening Spirit revived Me, and My tongue was unloosed to voice His Call. Accuse Me not of having transgressed against God. Behold Me, not with your eyes but with Mine. Thus admonisheth you He Who is the Gracious, the All-Knowing.” Gleanings, pp. 90-91​

You do not know what God needs. Only God knows that.

That is what God did. The Messengers are a Higher Level than ordinary humans. They do not value anything petty.

Ordinary humans cannot hear God speaking through the Holy Spirit because they don't have a divine mind, as the Messengers do.

If God could implant the same information He revealed to the Messengers into every human mind, then man would not have a choice to accept it or reject it. He would be compelled to accept it since it would be implanted in him.

You are playing a game. You are setting rules of this game then calling this game reality. True reality is better than games.

There is no holy spirit. God can speak for Himself. God has no needs. Your game makes God dependent on messengers. Mankind created the concept of messengers so that you must go through them.

If messengers are at a Higher Level, why do they reflect mankind more than God? Further, they do not even understand what God is doing with this world and it's people. If they did, they could never say it is a mess or condemn others as better than others. Haven't they even taught you they are better than you because they have the ability to talk with God in your so called divine mind?

Free choices. Each is free to create their box of beliefs that feel comfortable to them. This is no more than a lesson to learn. At some point, Truth will become more important than comfort. In time, each will Discover for themselves that True Reality will be better than all the beliefs one can create and hold onto.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Bird123]

God is not a parent who has children.
To compare God to a human parent and expect God to behave like a human parent is the fallacy of false equivalence.

False equivalence is a logical fallacy in which an equivalence is drawn between two subjects based on flawed or false reasoning. This fallacy is categorized as a fallacy of inconsistency.[1] A colloquial expression of false equivalency is "comparing apples and oranges".​

​

This fallacy is committed when one shared trait between two subjects is assumed to show equivalence, especially in order of magnitude, when equivalence is not necessarily the logical result.[2] False equivalence is a common result when an anecdotal similarity is pointed out as equal, but the claim of equivalence doesn't bear scrutiny because the similarity is based on oversimplification or ignorance of additional factors.​

False equivalence - Wikipedia​

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

Are you saying God has not created kids? Where did you come from, parents? Parents are responsible for their creations. Why should God not be responsible for His? You say God is at a Higher Level yet now you say might makes right. God can do what ever God wants.

Any Being capable of creating all this has to be very smart. Is choosing anything except a Higher Level really an Intelligent choice? Of course not!! Has God's IQ suddenly dropped? I have seen no evidence of this.

So much is said about God that simply isn't true. I say it's best to Discover the Real Truth rather than blindly follow the Beliefs of others even if those Beliefs are what one wants to be true. On the other hand, each is free to choose and learn for themselves. God and I would not want it any other way. Why? One can really only learn within the realm of free choice. If the choice is not free, one will choose the opposite as soon as freedom arrives just to Discover what one was not allowed to choose.

God isn't the Monster so many portrait God to be.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Trailblazer]

You are playing a game. You are setting rules of this game then calling this game reality. True reality is better than games.

That is what you are doing so that is psychological projection.
I set no rules, and neither do you. God sets the rules.

There is no holy spirit. God can speak for Himself. God has no needs. Your game makes God dependent on messengers. Mankind created the concept of messengers so that you must go through them.

And here we go again with your game. You speak for God as if you know what God has or needs. You don't know.
You are right. God has no needs, only humans have needs. Humans need what the Messengers reveal and that is why God sends them.

God determined that we must go through the Messengers since there is no other way to know anything about God.

If messengers are at a Higher Level, why do they reflect mankind more than God?

The Messengers do not reflect mankind. They reflect God's will for mankind.

Further, they do not even understand what God is doing with this world and it's people. If they did, they could never say it is a mess or condemn others as better than others.

The Messengers are the only ones who understand what God is doing with this world and it's people.
The world is in a mess. Everyone can see that except you. It is starting to get better little by little, but only because God sent Baha'u'llah.

Clearly, all people are not the same. Some people are good and others are evil, and there are shades of gray in between good and evil.
Everyone can see that except you. You have a dreamy notion that all people are the same, which doesn't make any logical sense. You believe that all people are good, but clearly that is not evidenced by the bad and even evil behaviors of some people.

Haven't they even taught you they are better than you because they have the ability to talk with God in your so called divine mind?

The Messengers are not better than ordinary humans, they are just different. That is why God chose them to communicate to.

Free choices. Each is free to create their box of beliefs that feel comfortable to them. This is no more than a lesson to learn.

That is true. We have free will so we can choose what to believe. There are lessons to learn.

At some point, Truth will become more important than comfort. In time, each will Discover for themselves that True Reality will be better than all the beliefs one can create and hold onto.

Those who listen to what the Messenger has revealed will Discover the True Reality. Others will believe what they have created and hold onto.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Twilight Hue]

OK. God creates the universe and God creates you. What does God want from you?

If you are an atheist, speculate. If God really exists and creates the universe and God creates you. What does God want from you?

Before you just give a quick answer, consider a Being capable of creating the universe and you has to be very very smart. Consider High Intellect with your answers. Make God's answer High Intellect.

God wants me to recognize that he, she, it, dwells only and exclusively in the cerebral realm and is an extension of myself until death do us part.

 

[Trailblazer]

Are you saying God has not created kids? Where did you come from, parents?

Yes, we came from our human parents.

Parents are responsible for their creations. Why should God not be responsible for His?

God is responsible for creating everything in existence, including the earth.
After the initial creation humans were responsible to take care of themselves and the rest of creation.

God has no children so God is not anyone's parent. That means God is not responsible for anything that humans do.

You say God is at a Higher Level yet now you say might makes right. God can do what ever God wants.

God can do whatever God wants since God is All-Powerful.

Any Being capable of creating all this has to be very smart. Is choosing anything except a Higher Level really an Intelligent choice? Of course not!! Has God's IQ suddenly dropped? I have seen no evidence of this.

God is All-Knowing and All-Wise, so that would make God very smart.
No human is All-Knowing or All-Wise, so that means no humans can know as much or be as wise as God.

So much is said about God that simply isn't true. I say it's best to Discover the Real Truth rather than blindly follow the Beliefs of others even if those Beliefs are what one wants to be true.

Much is said about God that isn't true, but nobody is going to Discover the Real Truth about God without a Messenger of God.
Your Beliefs about God are what you imagine, what you want to be true.

God isn't the Monster so many portrait God to be.

I never portrayed God as a Monster.

 

[Bird123]

No, that is not true at all. Baha'is are instructed to continue seeking knowledge till the end of their lives, and in the next life! We are not limited to what the Messenger has revealed. Knowledge is knowledge.

What the Messengers reveal is what humans need and are capable of understanding at the time of revelation.
Just as Christ held back some of what He knew back in His day, Baha’u’llah held back some of what He knew in this day because we are not capable of comprehending it yet...

“Oh, would that the world could believe Me! Were all the things that lie enshrined within the heart of Bahá, and which the Lord, His God, the Lord of all names, hath taught Him, to be unveiled to mankind, every man on earth would be dumbfounded.......​

​

Of these truths some can be disclosed only to the extent of the capacity of the repositories of the light of Our knowledge, and the recipients of Our hidden grace.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 176​

In the future more of God’s truth will be revealed, more and more in each successive age.

Now you are speaking for God, as if you know what thinks. You are completely clueless as to what God thinks since you have no way to know.
Everything you believe about God is an ego projection.

No, all humans (not God's children, because God has no children) are not equal in God's Eyes. Quite the contrary.

“Let no one imagine that by Our assertion that all created things are the signs of the revelation of God is meant that—God forbid—all men, be they good or evil, pious or infidel, are equal in the sight of God.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 187​

God hides everything that He chooses to hide. Nothing is staring us in the face. All we can know of God is what the Messengers reveal.

God's Messengers do not 'tell people' what choices they should make. It is a free choice whether to believe in the Messengers and follow what they reveal. How many times have I told you this?

Funny how none of your sources come from God. God doesn't give out knowledge. Wisdom is gained along the journey to Discover knowledge.

God has no messengers. I copy God by placing truth in the world, however God does not send me nor does God intimidate my or anyone's choices.

All of God's children are equal. On the other hand, you should ask yourself why you could never have it God's way of equality. Why value the petty things mankind holds so dear?

You can choose to close your eyes, however all the secrets of God are staring us all in the face. It might seem like God is hiding to you only your messenger and yourself are blind to see anything except those beliefs you want to be true. How long did mankind watch birds fly before they figured out how? Was God hiding that knowledge as well??

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Bird123]

As I said, things can exist in two ways. They can be real, have objective existence, by reason of being found in nature, the world external to the self, which we know about through our senses.

Or they can exist only as concepts, notions, abstractions, generalizations, things imagined, in an individual brain, with no real counterpart.

In which case the physical aspect of their existence is the set of brain-states and brain processes associated with their storage, retrieval and conscious reviewing.


That's fine, but please explain to me what in your view 'actually exists' and how I may satisfy myself I should agree.


Are you saying that you indeed 'have a clue' about it? That you can describe it and its qualities to me? I ask because you haven't given any such impression so far.


I have no option but to start with myself, a situation everyone finds themself in. I haven't even seen a definition of 'spiritual' that can be reconciled with observation. Do you have one?


It's not as if I've avoided looking at the question. My consciousness is one of the states induced by my entirely physical brain. So is sleep. So is unconsciousness ─ indeed I'd argue that the effectiveness of anesthetics is a very simple demonstration of the physicality of the origins and nature of consciousness.

On what reasoned basis should I think otherwise?

I pointed the direction by which one can Discover for oneself. You insist that I give you physical proof of a Spiritual Being. Most of the time the proof never shows up until after the journey. I can not do it for you.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!