What does God want from you?

[Trailblazer]

Why would God not fix His children? Sure. people have free will, however God counts on free will. One could never be truly fixed without free will. The parameters God places around one leads one to the fix. When one understands all sides, Intelligence will make the best choices. That is the fix.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

Why would God fix His children? God gave them free will to fix themselves. It is not God's responsibility to fix anyone.

 

[Bird123]

Nobody ever gets a visit from God.

God's system is to send messengers. They interfere with nobody's choices or journey because they intimidate nobody.

They are teaching what you believe is petty, things like laws and justice, which are anything but petty.
What God holds dear is justice.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

Are you making rules and creating walls and limits?? Are you really trying to control God by saying God can't visit anyone??? One the other hand, without a certain amount of understanding, most would just end up confused by a visit from God. Further, God will never intimidate those choices. If a visit would intimidate the choices, the visit will not happen. Why not? God is Unconditional Love. Unconditional Love always does what is best for the other. Confusing or intimidating one is not the best for one.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Trailblazer]

How can an observation determine whether one has a fact or it is merely a belief? If you do not know the facts, does that really make everything a belief?

Pretty much.

Granted, I can state a fact and since you have no proof that what I say is a fact, you must patch your gap with beliefs. It is not I who am dealing with beliefs. It is you!!

You cannot state facts because you have no facts. What you refer to as facts are only your beliefs.
You use your beliefs to try to patch the gap.

I do not use my beliefs to try to patch the gap since I know that gap cannot be patched.
A belief is a belief. A fact is a fact. Never the twain shall meet.

OK, I'll be open. You said messengers tell people what God wants so what is it you think God wants?? Show me God.

God wants what the messengers reveal. I cannot show you God. Nobody has ever seen God at any time, not even the messengers. They only heard God speak through the Holy Spirit.

 

[Bird123]

I'm teaching that good and evil are not equal, nor will they have the same end. If you see that as petty, so be it. People create their own hole in this respect. If death is not enough of a time ticker to stress the soul to be good, then nothing will pressure it. If people choose to not want God to guide, then that teaches there is no reason to try to guide others.

He set up the system so every soul get what it strives for.

God must lead by example. He must do his best to guide humanity and restore them to justice. His word (Quran) is a mercy, admonishment, guidance, and a healing. It then anoints guides. You see that as manipulation of Mohammad (S) and his family (a). It would be if they were false, but it's nothing but loving them and recognizing them for their chosen status if they are true.

If I pressure or intimidate you in order to alter your choices or actions, what will you choose to do as soon as the pressure and intimidation are gone? You will revert bad to your other choices.

If I allow you total free choices then teach you all sides, your intelligence, through understanding, will make the best choices. From this point on, the bad choices will no longer be viable choices one could make. Why not? One has learned what the best choices that return the best results are. It would not be Intelligent to make choices that do not return the best results.


Can you see the difference?

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Bird123]

But didn't you say God was real, not imaginary? Please clarify, because if God is real then God has a description appropriate to a real entity, no?

Is not High Intelligence a description?

 

[Trailblazer]

Are you making rules and creating walls and limits?? Are you really trying to control God by saying God can't visit anyone???

I do not make rules or create any limits, God does. God does not visit anyone, not ever, because God does not choose to.

One the other hand, without a certain amount of understanding, most would just end up confused by a visit from God.

They would be deluded if they believed they got a visit from God, not confused.

Further, God will never intimidate those choices. If a visit would intimidate the choices, the visit will not happen. Why not? God is Unconditional Love. Unconditional Love always does what is best for the other. Confusing or intimidating one is not the best for one.

The visit will not happen because God does not visit anyone.
God loves Unconditionally but that does not mean that God approves of everyone's behavior.

 

[Bird123]

He asked you to "Describe this real God, so that if I encounter a real suspect, I can determine whether it's God or not." I'm pretty sure he knows that you can't, nor did you, and the point is that discussions about gods are really discussions about nothing specific, just vague intuitions. I have similar intuitions involving a sense of the mysterious and awe for what reality is as well as a sense of connection to it and gratitude for being able to participate in it, but I don't identify such notions with gods or anything else specific. It's just nature in all its splendor.

I already have no gods, and yes, I learned what works through experience (trial and error). I know why the people in my life are there, and in many cases, the reason is because I want and put them there.

Unconditional love should be limited to very young humans and nature. Unconditional love for all adult humans is a pretty bad idea. Love is a relationship with another in which one offers protection, shares resources including time, and is generally interested in the well-being of that other. There are conditions for that. One is that you not be an enemy. I don't love enemies. And if I have loved another who willingly harms me, the love is diminished or ends. I see no benefit to any other attitude.

Who benefits from the notion of unconditional love? Only the unlovable one. Here's a better idea than me loving such a person unconditionally. How about if they can't return the love - and I'm excluding people too young to do that - that they learn and give to others what they expect in return or learn to live alone or with others like themselves. That's conditional love and the way I live my life. As I said, I've learned what works through experience (trial and error), and unconditional love is a bad idea.

That's a separate issue - attachment. Happiness includes both distancing oneself from destructive people and learning to be happy with what you have. That was another lesson life taught me.

I agree with you here. This doctrine of unconditional love is only good for what you call evil people. I tolerate the tolerant. I love the loveable, which excludes the intolerant, the selfish, and the disloyal. That's how I've arranged my life, and that's my model for society in general - tolerate (and facilitate, which is love) the tolerant, and send the rest away to go cheat and betray one another. Thise are conditions for love.

Happiness is no more than a choice. Why must you choose I will not be happy unless?? Who is manipulating and who is being manipulated here?

Atheists and theists exist for good reason. There is much each can teach each other.

Widen the view. There is so much more knowledge that lives beyond the surface.

If you insist only the physical exists, perhaps you need to work on Discovering about other things. You, for example. You are a Spiritual being in your true nature. What can you Discover for yourself?

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Bird123]

Why would God fix His children? God gave them free will to fix themselves. It is not God's responsibility to fix anyone.

God is at a Higher Level. Is it really a Higher Level to kick the kids to the curb or fry the kids? Would you fix your kids or fry your kids? If you won't do it, why do you think God is doing it?

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Bird123]

Pretty much.

You cannot state facts because you have no facts. What you refer to as facts are only your beliefs.
You use your beliefs to try to patch the gap.

I do not use my beliefs to try to patch the gap since I know that gap cannot be patched.
A belief is a belief. A fact is a fact. Never the twain shall meet.

God wants what the messengers reveal. I cannot show you God. Nobody has ever seen God at any time, not even the messengers. They only heard God speak through the Holy Spirit.

So you think God is more than one person together? Holy Spirit?? Get real!!

You still did not tell me what you think God wants.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Trailblazer]

God is at a Higher Level. Is it really a Higher Level to kick the kids to the curb or fry the kids? Would you fix your kids or fry your kids? If you won't do it, why do you think God is doing it?

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

God does not fix or fry the kids. God allows them to fix themselves if they choose to.

 

[Bird123]

I do not make rules or create any limits, God does. God does not visit anyone, not ever, because God does not choose to.

They would be deluded if they believed they got a visit from God, not confused.

The visit will not happen because God does not visit anyone.
God loves Unconditionally but that does not mean that God approves of everyone's behavior.

If God does not want something to happen, it will not happen.

Your beliefs place limits on you.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!!

 

[Bird123]

God does not fix or fry the kids. God allows them to fix themselves if they choose to.

So you will do nothing to help your children????

 

[Trailblazer]

So you think God is more than one person together? Holy Spirit?? Get real!!

God is not a person or a Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the Bounty if God that comes from God through the Messengers.

You still did not tell me what you think God wants.

What God wants for humanity is revealed through God's Messengers.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Trailblazer]

So you will do nothing to help your children????

I have no children.
God helps His children my sending the Messengers who bring a message, teachings and laws.

 

[Trailblazer]

If God does not want something to happen, it will not happen.

That's true.

Your beliefs place limits on you.

My beliefs put no limits on me but God puts limits on what is revealed through the messengers.

 

[blü 2]

Is not High Intelligence a description?

Of course not. High Intelligence is a judgment made by a human, not a thing that exists independently.

You can't run into a disembodied High Intelligence anywhere.

For God to be real, God needs to be physically real, like the zebra or the grain of sand or the shoe or the Higgs boson.

 

[Trailblazer]

Of course not. High Intelligence is a judgment made by a human, not a thing that exists independently.

You can't run into a disembodied High Intelligence anywhere.

That is true

For God to be real, God needs to be physically real, like the zebra or the grain of sand or the shoe or the Higgs boson.

No, God does not need to be physical in order to be real.

 

[Ebionite]

They are? I don't mind learning new things...can you please explain, thank you.

The meaning of the terms matters most in matters of law.

Definition of "person" from Black's Dictionary of Law, 2nd edition:

PERSON. A man considered according to the rank he holds in society, with all the rights to which the place he holds entitles him, and the duties which it imposes. 1 Bouv. Inst. no. 137. A human being considered as capable of having rights and of being charged with duties; while a "thing" is the object over which rights may be exercised. - Artificial persons. Such as are created and devised by law for the purposes of society and government, called "corporations" or "bodies politic." - Natural persons. Such as are formed by nature, as distinguished from artificial persons, or corporations. - Private person. An individual who is not an incumbent of an office.

Human beings have human rights, which are fictions. At common law people have natural rights, which are substantive. The difference relates to religious prejudice, since common law is theistic.

 

[YoursTrue]

The meaning of the terms matters most in matters of law.

Definition of "person" from Black's Dictionary of Law, 2nd edition:

PERSON. A man considered according to the rank he holds in society, with all the rights to which the place he holds entitles him, and the duties which it imposes. 1 Bouv. Inst. no. 137. A human being considered as capable of having rights and of being charged with duties; while a "thing" is the object over which rights may be exercised. - Artificial persons. Such as are created and devised by law for the purposes of society and government, called "corporations" or "bodies politic." - Natural persons. Such as are formed by nature, as distinguished from artificial persons, or corporations. - Private person. An individual who is not an incumbent of an office.

Human beings have human rights, which are fictions. At common law people have natural rights, which are substantive. The difference relates to religious prejudice, since common law is theistic.

You say human rights are fiction. I am not necessarily disagreeing with you but I'm not sure what you mean. For instance, different countries have different laws and these don't necessarily agree with one another, etc. Is that what you mean to an extent?

 

[Ebionite]

You say human rights are fiction. I am not necessarily disagreeing with you but I'm not sure what you mean.

The human condition is political/social. It doesn't have an ethical base that would support the existence of rights.

For instance, different countries have different laws and these don't necessarily agree with one another, etc. Is that what you mean to an extent?

Only to the extent that those systems of law have an ethical basis. One basis is divine law, another is contract.