What does God want from you?

[Bird123]

So what is it you are Discovering? I asked the following questions but as I predicted you did not answer them.

Discover what? WHY would what I Discover be the Truth from God, just because I believe it is?
Can you figure out how each person Discovering for themselves won't work to get the Truth from God?

You have no proof, all you have are claims, and you have no proof to back up anything you claim.
As I said before, all you have are Beliefs you want to be the truth. You believe they come from God because you want them to come from God.

You have not Discovered God or God's system, you only Believe you have.
Everyone can Discover many things, but they won't be God or God's system, not unless they come through a Messenger of God.

God teaches us to love, but not unconditionally.
God's system will never teach Unconditional Love, that is your system.
What God has taught through Messengers is what brings the best results.
Unconditional Love is not a teaching from God because it would not bring the best results.

What God teaches is what you call 'the petty things that mankind holds dear.'
All God's teachings that you disagree with you refer to as 'the petty things that mankind holds dear.'

The Real Truth was revealed by Baha'u'llah. It stares me in the face every time I read His Writings.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

Do you really think those petty things mankind holds so dear will bring the best results? You be the judge. Discover for yourself. Your actions and choices will bring you the lessons to answer that. beliefs do not change the lessons.

Once again, in this time-based causal universe God's actions can be seen. When one understands God's actions, one understands God. Unlike holy books, God's actions can not be altered by mankind.

When one reaches a certain point of understanding God, one might get a visit from God. This is the point where God will no longer be a belief. You see, I am not dealing with beliefs as you are.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Bird123]

I do not blame, label, or condemn people as evil. I have only made the cold dry observation that some people are evil.

Who is to say that evil people learn from their choices? Most do not learn, as the rate of recidivism in prisons clearly demonstrates.

I am not doing any of that so you just made a straw man.

What are prisons doing to really solve the problem? Have they figured out the underlying causes of crime? Do they work at fixing things? Payback, revenge, and using pain in an attempt to alter the actions of another doesn't work. These petty things mankind holds so dear will never bring the best results.

Don't you think God already knows this? Why would God send messengers to teach this? Once again, your Math does not add up. Everything about God adds up. Perhaps, you do not know God as well as you think you do.

How much do you do and don't even realize it? Cold dry observation does not cover your actions. It is what it is. It is what your messengers are teaching. it is not goodness. It does not come from God!!

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Bird123]

I've read hadiths about "and do not let the deceptions deceive you" in a verse in Quran, and they say it's that people always tell themselves God will be merciful and have compassion on them. They deceive themselves that their sins will be forgiven, and there is no worries whatever happens, because God is Merciful.

If there was a path to redemption for them, perhaps, he would, but perhaps there is not. Perhaps that once we die, we won't be able to fulfill the pledge again, because of that failure. If we were going to achieve it, it would be the first time in this world.

What if the light of God automatically burns a soul that is evil and running away, and that there is non-turning point to souls, that if they run away, they won't be able to love God anymore.

So perhaps God is hiding to prevent souls from burning to his light, but on the day of judgment, when fully shown, they have no way of redemption. At that point, the recognition is forced and overwhelming to them. They can't love God anymore. They wish to, but they can't. God works with what is logically possible.

So part of it is that in this world, we are to help each other, try to push each other towards God.

The exalted chosen ones, exist. If there is a God, there are exalted souls. God would use them to guide his creation back to him. They would provide the path to safety and we should rely on them to rely on God.

With many possibilities (that they maybe no path to redemption), I would expect God to clarify through revelation. You rather just speak for him, but you aren't his spokesman.

Is God really this monster you see? Would God really be Intelligent to create such a mess? Is revenge and payback more important than your children?

Your quote:They can't love God anymore. They wish to, but they can't. God works with what is logically possible.

My Answer: You have no clue what true power is. God is Unconditional Love. Between physical lifetimes everyone will experience God's Unconditional Love. It is a Love that heals all hurt. God shows us all it has never ever been about punishment. It is a Love that feels so good and so complete one would do anything for it.

God has no problem getting anyone to do anything. This physical world and our free choices exist not for God. It exists for us. There is no need for forgiveness or mercy. Each will learn for themselves what their actions mean. There is no need for hate, wrath, judging, condemning, punishing. pay back, revenge or any of the petty things mankind holds so dear. These petty things just generate and return a mess.

Don't you see? There is really nothing that justifies all the petty things that hurt others. The only thing viable is Unconditional Love. On the other hand, Until one understands this through the Living of those Lessons, those petty things will seem viable. Of course, when one understands all sides, Intelligence will make the best choices.

I can point, however it is in your hands. Choose and Learn. There is really no time limit on learning. On the other hand. That Higher Level is a so much better place!!

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Link]

Is God really this monster you see? Would God really be Intelligent to create such a mess? Is revenge and payback more important than your children?

Your quote:They can't love God anymore. They wish to, but they can't. God works with what is logically possible.

My Answer: You have no clue what true power is. God is Unconditional Love. Between physical lifetimes everyone will experience God's Unconditional Love. It is a Love that heals all hurt. God shows us all it has never ever been about punishment. It is a Love that feels so good and so complete one would do anything for it.

God has no problem getting anyone to do anything. This physical world and our free choices exist not for God. It exists for us. There is no need for forgiveness or mercy. Each will learn for themselves what their actions mean. There is no need for hate, wrath, judging, condemning, punishing. pay back, revenge or any of the petty things mankind holds so dear. These petty things just generate and return a mess.

Don't you see? There is really nothing that justifies all the petty things that hurt others. The only thing viable is Unconditional Love. On the other hand, Until one understands this through the Living of those Lessons, those petty things will seem viable. Of course, when one understands all sides, Intelligence will make the best choices.

I can point, however it is in your hands. Choose and Learn. There is really no time limit on learning. On the other hand. That Higher Level is a so much better place!!

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

I don't choose who I want God to be. I submit. And when you get use to the Quran, you see beauty in his wrath and he expresses in an eloquent beautiful way, that his anger is anything but evil. You through the Quran can understand God's emotion of anger and sadness over humans.

You simply call it monster, yet, most humans apparently don't see it like you. So you are relying on your desires of what you want morality to be.

I'm saying ,say you are right, why would God not explain it to us and prove it through Messengers and Prophets as well?

 

[Bird123]

As we all know, it was religious leaders that wrote all books. Even a religion that says they accept all of the major religions, the Baha'is, say that some things in those books isn't true, like reincarnation and the many Gods of some Hindus. Then the resurrection and a belief in Satan from the NT.

And as for guidance... all the religions guide people in different directions. It's funny how in some religions the "guidance" is to go out and preach and promote certain beliefs, like with some Christians going out and preaching about getting saved to avoid being cast into hell. Then another religion goes out and teaches a slight variation of that or something completely different. And naturally, each one thinks that they're the ones that have the true guidance.

Sadly, mankind is a controlling lot. Controlling others is one of the petty things mankind holds so dear. One should copy God. God places knowledge and truth around us all. Each will freely choose for themselves.

God gave everyone a different view to guaranty mankind a larger view than any one person could have. How much will be lost through the ruling and controlling of others?

Knowledge can be hidden in strange places. It could even be hidden in a homeless person. Someone who is least expected.

I say simply place truth in the world, so it will be around for someone who is ready to Discover it.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Bird123]

I don't choose who I want God to be. I submit. And when you get use to the Quran, you see beauty in his wrath and he expresses in an eloquent beautiful way, that his anger is anything but evil. You through the Quran can understand God's emotion of anger and sadness over humans.

You simply call it monster, yet, most humans apparently don't see it like you. So you are relying on your desires of what you want morality to be.

I'm saying ,say you are right, why would God not explain it to us and prove it through Messengers and Prophets as well?

Your quote:So you are relying on your desires of what you want morality to be.

My answer: I am simply stating what is. You do not Understand. Each must decide for themselves what the best choices really are. It is not about what I or anyone else wants morality to be. It's about what is. What the best choices really are. Each must Discover this for themselves. No one can do it for you.

It has never ever been about submitting. It's about what is. Mankind is the only one wanting others to submit.

Everybody wants to rule the world. I can tell you things a million times. Do you hear? When you are doing the free choosing and you are Discovering what the best choices are, it isn't about listening. It's about knowing. Are messengers really needed? Why? God's system has been working before any religions or messengers ever existed.

God does place knowledge and people around us all to interact with. This is part of learning. On the other hand, all those possibilities, examples, and interactions including the bad choices surround us so that each is free to choose what it is they want to learn. The truly remarkable part is that God is doing it all through our very own free choices.

Can you see know why this hungry student can't help but choose the knowledge and the Higher Level that is God? God is so much more than you can find in any holy book. Like I said. Holy books were written by mankind. That is who they really reflect. Look closely. You can't miss that one.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Link]

Your quote:So you are relying on your desires of what you want morality to be.

My answer: I am simply stating what is. You do not Understand. Each must decide for themselves what the best choices really are. It is not about what I or anyone else wants morality to be. It's about what is. What the best choices really are. Each must Discover this for themselves. No one can do it for you.

It has never ever been about submitting. It's about what is. Mankind is the only one wanting others to submit.

Everybody wants to rule the world. I can tell you things a million times. Do you hear? When you are doing the free choosing and you are Discovering what the best choices are, it isn't about listening. It's about knowing. Are messengers really needed? Why? God's system has been working before any religions or messengers ever existed.

God does place knowledge and people around us all to interact with. This is part of learning. On the other hand, all those possibilities, examples, and interactions including the bad choices surround us so that each is free to choose what it is they want to learn. The truly remarkable part is that God is doing it all through our very own free choices.

Can you see know why this hungry student can't help but choose the knowledge and the Higher Level that is God? God is so much more than you can find in any holy book. Like I said. Holy books were written by mankind. That is who they really reflect. Look closely. You can't miss that one.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

You are stating everything from circular reasoning. You are saying you don't need Messengers because to you God's system worked before Messengers. But that's denying Messengers by denying Messengers.

I already told you learning from lessons and Messengers and holy books are not mutually exclusive. So talking about one as if it refutes the other doesn't make sense.

 

[Trailblazer]

Do you really think those petty things mankind holds so dear will bring the best results? You be the judge.

Petty things that mankind holds dear are not from God so they don't bring the best results.
What the Messenger of God reveals to mankind brings the best results.

I am not the judge, God is the judge.

When one reaches a certain point of understanding God, one might get a visit from God. This is the point where God will no longer be a belief. You see, I am not dealing with beliefs as you are.

Nobody ever gets a visit from God.
Beliefs are all that you are dealing with. What you believe about God is a mere belief.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[The Hammer]

God wants a diaper change, from me. Told them I'd pass.

 

[Trailblazer]

What are prisons doing to really solve the problem? Have they figured out the underlying causes of crime? Do they work at fixing things?

It is not the job of prisons to figure out the underlying causes of crime or work at fixing things.
It is their job to incarcerate criminals and rehabilitation is offered.

Payback, revenge, and using pain in an attempt to alter the actions of another doesn't work. These petty things mankind holds so dear will never bring the best results.

Wake up.
Prison is not payback, revenge, or using pain in an attempt to alter the actions of another. It is punishment for a crime. It is justice.

Don't you think God already knows this? Why would God send messengers to teach this?

Of course God already knows this. God sends Messengers to teach us because we don't know.

Once again, your Math does not add up. Everything about God adds up. Perhaps, you do not know God as well as you think you do.

God is not a math problem that you add up.
I know more about God than you do since you don't know anything about God except what you project with your ego.

How much do you do and don't even realize it? Cold dry observation does not cover your actions. It is what it is. It is what your messengers are teaching. it is not goodness. It does not come from God!!

Whatever the Messengers are teaching comes from God. Nothing you are teaching comes from God because you are not a Messenger of God.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Bird123]

You are stating everything from circular reasoning. You are saying you don't need Messengers because to you God's system worked before Messengers. But that's denying Messengers by denying Messengers.

I already told you learning from lessons and Messengers and holy books are not mutually exclusive. So talking about one as if it refutes the other doesn't make sense.

The point I am making is that if the system is working good, why send messengers and have mankind write holy books? God is not going to intimidate those choices. Messengers is an attempt to intimidate those choices. Even this proves messengers and holy books do not come from God.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Bird123]

Petty things that mankind holds dear are not from God so they don't bring the best results.
What the Messenger of God reveals to mankind brings the best results.

I am not the judge, God is the judge.

Nobody ever gets a visit from God.
Beliefs are all that you are dealing with. What you believe about God is a mere belief.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

God doesn't have to be the judge. Why not? God already knows. It's God's children who must Discover the best choices.

You can't have it both ways. If the petty things mankind holds so dear will not bring the best results and messengers teach those petty things, messengers can not bring the best results.

Pay attention to the Math. Everything about God will add up unlike the math you just presented to me.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Bird123]

It is not the job of prisons to figure out the underlying causes of crime or work at fixing things.
It is their job to incarcerate criminals and rehabilitation is offered.

Wake up.
Prison is not payback, revenge, or using pain in an attempt to alter the actions of another. It is punishment for a crime. It is justice.

Of course God already knows this. God sends Messengers to teach us because we don't know.

God is not a math problem that you add up.
I know more about God than you do since you don't know anything about God except what you project with your ego.

Whatever the Messengers are teaching comes from God. Nothing you are teaching comes from God because you are not a Messenger of God.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

It's about what is. My ego has nothing to do with what is.

There you go making rules again that place limits on yourself. Interacting with God is possible.

You have things in a nice little box that allows you to justify those petty things mankind holds so dear. Discovering is everyone's job. You hide under punishment. What is the purpose of punishment? It is no more than an attempt to alter the choices of another. Let's don't ignore that payback and revenge are a good part of it.

If Unconditional Love were involved, more would be done to fix the problem rather than ignore it in favor of punishment. Problems never go away until they are solved. How many will be hurt because the problem was never solved due to blaming, judging, condemning and wanting to payback, hate, and hurt others in an attempt to alter the choices of another?

I am merely placing truth in the world. I am not teaching or want followers. I am pointing the way where one can Discover the answers for oneself. This is something messengers do not do.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Trailblazer]

God doesn't have to be the judge. Why not? God already knows. It's God's children who must Discover the best choices.

There is no connection between God being the judge and God being All-Knowing.

You can't have it both ways. If the petty things mankind holds so dear will not bring the best results and messengers teach those petty things, messengers can not bring the best results.

Messengers do not teach any petty things mankind holds dear.

 

[Trailblazer]

It's about what is. My ego has nothing to do with what is.

Your ego has everything to do with it because it is your ego that tells you "It's about what is." In other words, what you believe is is an ego projection.

There you go making rules again that place limits on yourself. Interacting with God is possible.

Interacting with God is impossible. That is not my rule, it obvious to anyone who knows anything about God, which excludes you.

You have things in a nice little box that allows you to justify those petty things mankind holds so dear.

I don't have to justify what the Messengers of God have revealed.
You have things in a nice little box that allows you to say that what the Messengers reveal are petty things mankind holds dear.

Discovering is everyone's job. You hide under punishment. What is the purpose of punishment? It is no more than an attempt to alter the choices of another. Let's don't ignore that payback and revenge are a good part of it.

The purpose of punishment is to punish wrong actions and achieve justice for those who were wronged and protect society from wrongdoers.
Punishment is not an attempt to alter the choices of another. Punishment is not payback or revenge.

If Unconditional Love were involved, more would be done to fix the problem rather than ignore it in favor of punishment. Problems never go away until they are solved.

If Unconditional Love were involved, nothing would be done to fix the problems.
Problems don't go away until they are solved but Unconditional Love solves no problems.

I am merely placing truth in the world. I am not teaching or want followers. I am pointing the way where one can Discover the answers for oneself. This is something messengers do not do.

You are placing no truth n the world because you have no truth to place.
It is the Messengers who place truth in the world and point the way where one can Discover the answers for oneself.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Aupmanyav]

Your ego has everything to do with it because it is your ego that tells you what is. In other words, what you believe is is only an ego projection.

Interacting with God is impossible. That is not my rule, it obvious to anyone who knows anything about God, which excludes you.

I don't have to justify what the Messengers of God have revealed.
You have things in a nice little box that allows you to say that what the Messengers reveal are petty things mankind holds dear.

Punishment is not payback or revenge.

Problems don't go away until they are solved but Unconditional Love solves no problems.

You are placing no truth n the world because you have no truth to place.
It is the Messengers who place truth in the world and point the way where one can Discover the answers for oneself.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

Same for you Trailblazer.
Sure, impossible to interact with an entity that does not exist.
Entities that do not exist do not send messengers. People claim to be so are after power, money or sex. They never have any proof to provide.
Not always. Punishment can be for improvement, it can also be a revenge.
Unconditional love does not exist. So said Sage Yajnavalkya to his wife Maitreyi:

"Yājñavalkya goes on with his exposition to Maitreyī: Neither the husband is dear to the wife, nor the wife is dear to the husband. What is dear is a condition which they try to bring about in their mind by that relation. That condition is always missed, and so the happiness expected never comes."

The Conversation of Yajnavalkya and Maitreyi on the Absolute Self - The Brihadaranyaka Upanishad - Chapter II

The Brihadaranyaka Upanishad Chapter 2, Brahmana 4.

www.swami-krishnananda.org

Brihadaranyaka Upanishad is the oldest of Upanishads dated around 800-600 BCE.

So strange that some people in 21st Century believe in uneducated 19th Century people to be messenger/manifestations/mahdis of God/Allah. Of course, the earlier ones also were uneducated. This God/Allah has a strange affinity to uneducated people. They are his kingdom, not the educated ones.

 

[Link]

The point I am making is that if the system is working good, why send messengers and have mankind write holy books? God is not going to intimidate those choices. Messengers is an attempt to intimidate those choices. Even this proves messengers and holy books do not come from God.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

You don't know if the system works good without Messengers because you don't know the pivotal role they play in the case they have been sent. And also say you are correct, improving the system and making it much better would be a good reason to send them.

 

[Trailblazer]

Unconditional love does not exist. So said Sage Yajnavalkya to his wife Maitreyi:

Tell that to @Bird123.

 

[Trailblazer]

You don't know if the system works good without Messengers

Because humanity has never been without Messengers.

 

[Link]

God is not going to intimidate those choices. Messengers is an attempt to intimidate those choices.

Say he was not, and there was no hell to warn about. He can still send Messengers and holy books. So what you say does not make sense. Your rational against Messengers is of a particular type, not a universal argument.