What does God want from you?

[Link]

@Bird123

أَفَنَجْعَلُ الْمُسْلِمِينَ كَالْمُجْرِمِينَ | Shall We treat those who submit [to Us] as [We treat] the guilty? | Al-Qalam : 35
مَا لَكُمْ كَيْفَ تَحْكُمُونَ | What is the matter with you? How do you judge! | Al-Qalam : 36
أَمْ لَكُمْ كِتَابٌ فِيهِ تَدْرُسُونَ | Or do you possess a scripture in which you read | Al-Qalam : 37
إِنَّ لَكُمْ فِيهِ لَمَا تَخَيَّرُونَ | that you shall have in it whatever you choose? | Al-Qalam : 38
أَمْ لَكُمْ أَيْمَانٌ عَلَيْنَا بَالِغَةٌ إِلَىٰ يَوْمِ الْقِيَامَةِ ۙ إِنَّ لَكُمْ لَمَا تَحْكُمُونَ | Or do you a pledge binding on Us until the Day of Resurrection, that you shall indeed have what you judge? | Al-Qalam : 39
سَلْهُمْ أَيُّهُمْ بِذَٰلِكَ زَعِيمٌ | Ask them, which of them will aver that! | Al-Qalam : 40


To me the logic here makes sense. If God was going to treat all the same with unconditional, and no punishment nor reward, he would reveal that which you are choosing now to believe (that God will treat all his creation with unconditional love).

But with no proof from God in a book, then it holds no ground. It's just your viewpoint, a limited one, not from the perspective of the absolute knowing perfect judge.

If it was that God would treat all equal, then, he could reveal that. There would be no intimidation in this case. And this where every religion but Islam fails. Every religion does not emphasize on proof while Quran emphasizes on proof and that humans ought to seek proof for what they attribute to God and proof for whoever speaks on behalf of God.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Because humanity has never been without Messengers.

Messengers who have never provided any proof of existence of God or themselves being sent or chosen by such an entity.
'Heavenly Maidens' visit many a people, particularly in their youth.

Every religion does not emphasize on proof while Quran emphasizes on proof and that humans ought to seek proof for what they attribute to God and proof for whoever speaks on behalf of God.

Then, give us the proof that Qur'an is the word of Allah and that Muhammad was a messenger of Allah.
Saw Jibreel three times. Rent the Moon. Rode Burraq to go to heaven and meet other prophets. Where is the proof?
Before the month was out, Allah sent the ayah "O Prophet! Why do you prohibit yourself from what Allah has made lawful to you .."

 

[Bird123]

There is no connection between God being the judge and God being All-Knowing.

Messengers do not teach any petty things mankind holds dear.

Are you Blind?

 

[Bird123]

Your ego has everything to do with it because it is your ego that tells you "It's about what is." In other words, what you believe is is an ego projection.

Interacting with God is impossible. That is not my rule, it obvious to anyone who knows anything about God, which excludes you.

I don't have to justify what the Messengers of God have revealed.
You have things in a nice little box that allows you to say that what the Messengers reveal are petty things mankind holds dear.

The purpose of punishment is to punish wrong actions and achieve justice for those who were wronged and protect society from wrongdoers.
Punishment is not an attempt to alter the choices of another. Punishment is not payback or revenge.

If Unconditional Love were involved, nothing would be done to fix the problems.
Problems don't go away until they are solved but Unconditional Love solves no problems.

You are placing no truth n the world because you have no truth to place.
It is the Messengers who place truth in the world and point the way where one can Discover the answers for oneself.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

You have much to Discover before you Understand.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Bird123]

Say he was not, and there was no hell to warn about. He can still send Messengers and holy books. So what you say does not make sense. Your rational against Messengers is of a particular type, not a universal argument.

Look closer, God isn't sending middlemen with messages to His children.

I do not understand what you mean by a universal argument. I am not arguing. I am placing truth in the world. As for messengers, by what they teach, I know it doesn't come from God. They do not really know God. They know what people want to hear but that is not God.

I have found no religion that understands God at all. On the other hand, some of the things holy books talk about Love does sound like God. See, deep down people know the answers, however they just must choose those petty things mankind holds so dear because they lack understanding and think those petty things will bring the best results. Do we label them as evil, judge and condemn them? That would be petty because they are merely God's children learning what they do not know. Do you condemn others as evil that are merely learning their lessons through their bad choices?

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Trailblazer]

Are you Blind?

No, are you?

 

[Trailblazer]

You have much to Discover before you Understand.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

You have much to Discover before you Understand.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Bird123]

You don't know if the system works good without Messengers because you don't know the pivotal role they play in the case they have been sent. And also say you are correct, improving the system and making it much better would be a good reason to send them.

Think Multi-Angular here. God did not send messengers to give messages to His children. On the other hand, religions and messengers do serve a purpose. They are catalysts that brings so many problems to the surface so they can be dealt with.

If they teach you some of the petty things mankind holds so dear and you agree with them, you will justify choosing those petty things. By choosing those petty things, you generate living those lessons you are choosing. When you understand all sides, Intelligence will make the best choice. It will not be those petty things. Why not? After learning all sides, those petty things will no longer by viable choices one could make. Knowing will overcome believing or what one wanted to be true in the first place.

There are many variables in the people factor. There are many sides going on. On the other hand, what actually is will be where one ends up in time.

Remember, God is working on multiple levels with multiple views. God's system, though basic, is also working on multiple levels with multiple views.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Bird123]

@Bird123

أَفَنَجْعَلُ الْمُسْلِمِينَ كَالْمُجْرِمِينَ | Shall We treat those who submit [to Us] as [We treat] the guilty? | Al-Qalam : 35
مَا لَكُمْ كَيْفَ تَحْكُمُونَ | What is the matter with you? How do you judge! | Al-Qalam : 36
أَمْ لَكُمْ كِتَابٌ فِيهِ تَدْرُسُونَ | Or do you possess a scripture in which you read | Al-Qalam : 37
إِنَّ لَكُمْ فِيهِ لَمَا تَخَيَّرُونَ | that you shall have in it whatever you choose? | Al-Qalam : 38
أَمْ لَكُمْ أَيْمَانٌ عَلَيْنَا بَالِغَةٌ إِلَىٰ يَوْمِ الْقِيَامَةِ ۙ إِنَّ لَكُمْ لَمَا تَحْكُمُونَ | Or do you a pledge binding on Us until the Day of Resurrection, that you shall indeed have what you judge? | Al-Qalam : 39
سَلْهُمْ أَيُّهُمْ بِذَٰلِكَ زَعِيمٌ | Ask them, which of them will aver that! | Al-Qalam : 40


To me the logic here makes sense. If God was going to treat all the same with unconditional, and no punishment nor reward, he would reveal that which you are choosing now to believe (that God will treat all his creation with unconditional love).

But with no proof from God in a book, then it holds no ground. It's just your viewpoint, a limited one, not from the perspective of the absolute knowing perfect judge.

If it was that God would treat all equal, then, he could reveal that. There would be no intimidation in this case. And this where every religion but Islam fails. Every religion does not emphasize on proof while Quran emphasizes on proof and that humans ought to seek proof for what they attribute to God and proof for whoever speaks on behalf of God.

The learning where one reaches the Higher Level where one can create a heavenly state for oneself and others takes many many many physical lifetimes. People learn at different rates. Everyone will not be learning the same lesson at the same time. Our choices determine what we are to learn. This multilevel classroom creates the maximum learning through interaction than any single level classroom. It also sets up a test to see if you choose those petty things mankind holds so dear through blaming, judging, condemning, hating, wanting payback or revenge. Think Multi-Angular.

Do you want proof of who speaks for God? That is so easy. NO ONE SPEAKS FOR GOD!!!!!!

I do not speak for God but I do speak to what I have Discovered about God. I point to where others can Discover these things for themselves.

It has never ever been about Believing, Accepting, or Following. These things are mankind> It's about Learning, Growing, and Discovering what is through our own free choices and acquiring Wisdom along the way. Each will decide what is good or what is bad for themselves. For true learning, no one can do these things for you.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[CG Didymus]

Messengers who have never provided any proof of existence of God or themselves being sent or chosen by such an entity.
'Heavenly Maidens' visit many a people, particularly in their youth.

Most of us know by now that the Baha'is don't believe the messages supposedly brought by these messengers is accurate. That is not until Muhammad and their two prophets. Prior to that it was people that wrote the message. They made the claim that the person they were writing about was a messenger.

So, humanity has never been without stories about people that claimed to be from the Gods. Incarnations of Gods. Virgin born, dying and risings Godmen. Men talking to a burning bush. Men hearing voices that they believed were God. And that voice telling them to go kill their son as a sacrifice.

Baha'is don't necessarily believe all those things. Yet... they believe the people spoken of in those stories were real?

 

[Trailblazer]

God did not send messengers to give messages to His children.

You don't know that, you only believe it. We all have our beliefs.

 

[Link]

It has never ever been about Believing, Accepting, or Following. These things are mankind> It's about Learning, Growing, and Discovering what is through our own free choices and acquiring Wisdom along the way.

As I said, these are not mutually exclusive. Instead of you writing these words, God could've revealed a miraculous book with your message.

But as you said, you find no religion that confirms your views. This maybe due to your views not being confirmed by God. You are not providing a reason for God not to show your message. There does not need to be hell, coercion or following it as a requirement in theory. So again, your arguments are very specific and don't address the general arguments for Nubuwa.

 

[Link]

NO ONE SPEAKS FOR GOD!!!!!!

But you are doing that. You say you are not, but you are. What you are against is a person claiming proof from God for it.

 

[Link]

Look closer, God isn't sending middlemen with messages to His children.

I do not understand what you mean by a universal argument. I am not arguing.

I mean an argument that is not specific to a judgmental coercing God. Say God didn't have these characteristics, why would he still not want to inform and guide people?

 

[Trailblazer]

But as you said, you find no religion that confirms your views. This maybe due to your views not being confirmed by God.

That is it in a nutshell.
@Bird123 would only believe in a religion that 'confirms' his views, but there is no such religion, since his views are not confirmed by God.

 

[Bird123]

As I said, these are not mutually exclusive. Instead of you writing these words, God could've revealed a miraculous book with your message.

But as you said, you find no religion that confirms your views. This maybe due to your views not being confirmed by God. You are not providing a reason for God not to show your message. There does not need to be hell, coercion or following it as a requirement in theory. So again, your arguments are very specific and don't address the general arguments for Nubuwa.

God did confirm what I have Discovered. Of course, I had to Discover it first. God does not give the answers. Knowledge must be Discovered in order to acquire wisdom.

Why would God reveal a book with what I have been telling? That would not follow the system God has in place. If God didn't send any books, why would you think God would send a book for me? Besides, God doesn't need any books. If God wanted knowledge passed, God could implant it a birth. That way everyone would get a copy. You must remember God is intelligent. Is sending books through mankind really Intelligent? Of course not when there are so many better ways.

How long did mankind watch birds fly before they figured out how? God had the knowledge in the world all this time. I copy God by placing knowledge in the world. God doesn't command me to do this. God doesn't command anyone to do anything. God works around each person's free choices.

If God knows that given enough time and lessons, everyone will reach that Higher Level, why would God need to send a messenger? Do you really think God needs to tell anyone what to do? They learn what to do so much better living those lessons through their free choices.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Bird123]

But you are doing that. You say you are not, but you are. What you are against is a person claiming proof from God for it.

I am not speaking for God. I am describing what I have Discovered.

I am not against anything. I am placing truth in the world. What I have said about religion is the truth.

I nor God are making demands. Choose freely. I merely speak to things you have not Discovered yet.

I point the way. Can you see where I point or are you blind to see it? Do you choose to be blind because it is not what you want to see? Do you value those petty things mankind holds so dear? Be true to yourself. Understand all the why.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Bird123]

I mean an argument that is not specific to a judgmental coercing God. Say God didn't have these characteristics, why would he still not want to inform and guide people?

When one Discovers what the best choices really are, are they not informed then? Some want the answers first. In reality, the answers are Discovered last.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Bird123]

That is it in a nutshell.
@Bird123 would only believe in a religion that 'confirms' his views, but there is no such religion, since his views are not confirmed by God.

I am one who must know. I am not one to believe. If I form a belief, I will work to Discover the truth. Beliefs are never the end of the journey.

God has confirmed what I have Discovered. On the other hand, It had to be Discovered first before I got that visit. Knowledge must be Discovered. Wisdom is acquired along the journey to Discover knowledge. Do you really think God does not want His children to acquire knowledge?

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Trailblazer]

God did confirm what I have Discovered. Of course, I had to Discover it first.

How do you know that God confirmed what you Discovered?
You don't know, you believe.

Why would God reveal a book with what I have been telling? That would not follow the system God has in place. If God didn't send any books, why would you think God would send a book for me? Besides, God doesn't need any books.

How do you know what system God has in place? How do you know that God did not send any Messengers to reveal books?
You don't know, you believe.

Of course God does not need any books, it is humans who need the books.

If God wanted knowledge passed, God could implant it a birth. That way everyone would get a copy.

God could have done that but He did not because God is too intelligent to do something that stupid.
Everyone can get a copy of the Baha'i Writings at the Baha’i Reference Library. Problem solved.