What does God want from you?

[Bird123]

Do you even listen to what I say? God isn't going to tell anyone what to do. God will never intimidate our free choices. God will not tell you what to do but God will tell Messengers what to do during their mission.

You cannot study God's actions because God is not acting in this world.
God does not confirm anything for anyone.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

If God can talk to messengers. God can talk to you. On the other hand. I have found few that want to talk to God. Sounds like you are one of them since you insist you must have a messenger. There will come a day when your crutches will no longer be needed.

God does confirm. On the other hand, God doesn't just give out knowledge. Wisdom is acquired on the journey to Discover knowledge. Does God have anything God could confirm with you? I wouldn't count on messengers. That is not going to happen.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

OK. God creates the universe and God creates you. What does God want from you?

If you are an atheist, speculate. If God really exists and creates the universe and God creates you. What does God want from you?

Before you just give a quick answer, consider a Being capable of creating the universe and you has to be very very smart. Consider High Intellect with your answers. Make God's answer High Intellect.

God needs to let me know. Why should I have to guess if he is so powerful?

 

[Trailblazer]

If God can talk to messengers. God can talk to you.

That is not logically coherent. God can talk to Messengers and they can understand God because they are another order of creation above ordinary humans. Messengers have a divine mind so that is why God can talk to them and be understood. Ordinary humans do not have a divine mind so even if God talked to them they could never hear God. That is one reason why God never talks to ordinary humans. The other reason is that it is totally unnecessary for God to talk to ordinary humans since God can convey His message through the Messengers.

On the other hand. I have found few that want to talk to God. Sounds like you are one of them since you insist you must have a messenger. There will come a day when your crutches will no longer be needed.

I can talk to God until the cows come home and I often do, but I don't expect God to talk back.
There will never come a day when humans don't need the Messengers since that is the ONLY WAY to ever get any messages from God.

God does confirm. On the other hand, God doesn't just give out knowledge. Wisdom is acquired on the journey to Discover knowledge. Does God have anything God could confirm with you?

God does not confirm anything with ordinary humans since God never communicates to them.

I wouldn't count on messengers. That is not going to happen.

It already happened.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Trailblazer]

God needs to let me know. Why should I have to guess if he is so powerful?

Why should God let people know on an individual basis?
That God is All-Powerful is a moot point. God only uses His power as He sees fit.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

Why should God let people know on an individual basis?

So they would know what he wants from them. Pretty simple. He talks to people individually and answers prayers individually.

That God is All-Powerful is a moot point. God only uses His power as He sees fit.

So god sees fit not to tell me what he wants from me. Will he hold me accountable for not doing what he wants even though he won’t tell me what he wants?

 

[blü 2]

If you are an atheist, speculate. If God really exists and creates the universe and God creates you. What does God want from you?

Well, here you are, out in the woods, scooping tadpoles out of the pond, taking them home and putting them in a glass bowl or whatever.

You expect that in return for maintaining their environment, they'll occasionally entertain you by doing whatever amphibians do.

And when you get bored, you can either return them to the pond or ...

So God doesn't want anything from me. [He]'s merely curious to know how humans behave. When humans are entertaining, [he]'s interested; and when they're not, [he] goes down to the Celestial Golf Club and plays a round or two with the other gods and maybe they have dinner there and tell jokes and give each other tips about how the market will probably go.

Before you just give a quick answer, consider a Being capable of creating the universe and you has to be very very smart. Consider High Intellect with your answers. Make God's answer High Intellect.

Okay, they play exquisitely fine golf, have diet-conscious meals, booze selected with extraordinary knowledge and insight, and tell these enormously obscure but clever jokes that require intimate knowledge of the mating habits of the species of thousands of universes.

 

[Trailblazer]

So they would know what he wants from them. Pretty simple. He talks to people individually and answers prayers individually.

So God should speak to all of the 8 billion people in the world?
The question is why God would need to do that when God can speak to one Messenger who can relay that information to everyone in the world.

Why should God answer our prayers?

So god sees fit not to tell me what he wants from me. Will he hold me accountable for not doing what he wants even though he won’t tell me what he wants?

God has told everyone what He wants from them through His Messenger, and we are all accountable to God for recognizing His Messenger.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

So God should speak to all of the 8 billion people in the world?
The question is why God would need to do that when God can speak to one Messenger who can relay that information to everyone in the world.

Can god not speak to all 8 billion people? If he can that would be the most efficient way to tell people. I assume you are talking about Jesus as the messenger? If so, how do I know he is a messenger of god?

Why should God answer our prayers?

I did not say he should. I said Christians claim he does, it says it in the bible as well.

God has told everyone what He wants from them through His Messenger, and we are all accountable to God for recognizing His Messenger.

How do I know who his messenger is?

Also, I can ask 10 Christians what god wants and get 10 different answers. There are hundreds of denominations and thousands of different beliefs about God by self proclaimed Christians. It seems to be an objective fact that God has not communicated well to us through his messenger.

What do you think God wants from us?

 

[Trailblazer]

Can god not speak to all 8 billion people?

I do not believe that God can talk to ordinary people and be understood.
Only God's Messengers can understand God because they have a divine nature as well as a human nature.

If he can that would be the most efficient way to tell people.

I don't know why you think that would be the most efficient way, if it was even possible.

I assume you are talking about Jesus as the messenger? If so, how do I know he is a messenger of god?

Jesus was a Messenger of God but I was not referring specifically to Jesus, I was referring to Messengers in general.
The way we can know if a man is a Messenger is by looking at His claims and the evidence that supports His claims.

I did not say he should. I said Christians claim he does, it says it in the bible as well.

Christians can claim that if they want to, but there is no evidence that supports the claim that God answers all our prayers, and there is evidence against that.

How do I know who his messenger is?

The way we can know if a person is a Messenger is by looking at those who make the claims and the evidence that supports those claims.

Also, I can ask 10 Christians what god wants and get 10 different answers. There are hundreds of denominations and thousands of different beliefs about God by self proclaimed Christians. It seems to be an objective fact that God has not communicated well to us through his messenger.

Christians have different beliefs about God and other things that are in the Bible because they interpret the Bible differently.
God did not communicate the Bible through a Messenger. At best, the Bible was inspired by the Holy Spirit, but it was written by men, many different men, so it is not cohesive or clear.

What do you think God wants from us?

God does not want anything from us, although God wants things for us. What God wants for us is communicated through each Messenger in the age in which He appears. That is contained in the Scriptures of the religion that was established by the Messenger.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

I do not believe that God can talk to ordinary people and be understood.
Only God's Messengers can understand God because they have a divine nature as well as a human nature.

Why do you believe this?

I don't know why you think that would be the most efficient way, if it was even possible.

Because direct communication is always better than indirect. Less chance for mistakes.

The way we can know if a person is a Messenger is by looking at those who make the claims and the evidence that supports those claims.

I agree evidence for claims need to be evaluated.

God does not want anything from us, although God wants things for us. What God wants for us is communicated through each Messenger in the age in which He appears. That is contained in the Scriptures of the religion that was established by the Messenger.

How do you know this is true?

 

[Trailblazer]

Why do you believe this?

Because I am a Baha'i and that is what the Baha'i Faith teaches.

Because direct communication is always better than indirect. Less chance for mistakes.

Not always. That only applies to human to human communication, not to God to human communication.
You are making some assumptions, facts not in evidence. You are assuming that God could communicate to humans and that you would understand God. I do not believe that is possible.

But hypothetically speaking, let's say you heard a voice in your head claiming to be God and you got some messages. How would you know that was actually the voice of God rather than an auditory hallucination?

How do you know this is true?

Again, I believe it is true because I am a Baha'i and that is what the Baha'i Faith teaches.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

Because I am a Baha'i and that is what the Baha'i Faith teaches.

OK

Not always. That only applies to human to human communication, not to God to human communication.
You are making some assumptions, facts not in evidence. You are assuming that God could communicate to humans and that you would understand God. I do not believe that is possible.

Do you believe this because the Baha'i faith teaches that?

But hypothetically speaking, let's say you heard a voice in your head claiming to be God and you got some messages. How would you know that was actually the voice of God rather than an auditory hallucination?

I don't know how, but of god was communicating I bet he would know how.

Again, I believe it is true because I am a Baha'i and that is what the Baha'i Faith teaches.

Ok, if your reasons for your beliefs are just the Baha'i faith teaches it then it is probably wise to end the conversation. We won't see eye to eye on much. To me just because a faith teaches something is not good reason to believe it.

 

[Trailblazer]

Do you believe this because the Baha'i faith teaches that?

Yes, but I also believe it because it is logical.

If God exists and if it was possible for humans to understand God communicating to them directly, why hasn't God communicated directly to everyone? God is All-Powerful, so God could do that. If God is All-Knowing then God would have to know the best way to communicate to humans to accomplish His goals. Direct communication to everyone cannot be the best way or God would have used it.

I do not need a religion to figure this out, only a logical mind.

There are only three mutually exclusive logical possibilities, given what can see in this world:

1. God exists and communicates to Messengers who establish religions, or
2. God exists and does not communicate to humans at all, or
3. God does not exist

If God existed God would communicate directly to everyone is not a logical possibility, because if God exists God does not communicate directly to everyone.

If God exists, we know that God does not communicate directly to everyone, so we know that if God existed God would not do that.
It is at that point that we ask ourselves why God does not do that, if we want to know.

I don't know how, but of god was communicating I bet he would know how.

How do you think you would know, given you don't know anything about God. It could just as well be an evil spirit trying to trick you.
There are lots of people who believe that God communicated to them, but why should anyone believe them? Where is the evidence?

Ok, if your reasons for your beliefs are just the Baha'i faith teaches it then it is probably wise to end the conversation. We won't see eye to eye on much. To me just because a faith teaches something is not good reason to believe it.

What would be a reason to believe it? How do you think you can know anything about God without a religion?

 

[Bird123]

God needs to let me know. Why should I have to guess if he is so powerful?

Why does God need to let you know? Would not you become wiser figuring it all out on your own? Look how much more knowledge and wisdom you would acquire along the journey to Discover anything. Further, how many really listen when they are told? On the other hand, people don't question that which they Discovered for themselves. Example: What freezes quicker cold water or hot water? I could tell you, however how many would never believe until they Discover the answer for themselves?

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Bird123]

That is not logically coherent. God can talk to Messengers and they can understand God because they are another order of creation above ordinary humans. Messengers have a divine mind so that is why God can talk to them and be understood. Ordinary humans do not have a divine mind so even if God talked to them they could never hear God. That is one reason why God never talks to ordinary humans. The other reason is that it is totally unnecessary for God to talk to ordinary humans since God can convey His message through the Messengers.

I can talk to God until the cows come home and I often do, but I don't expect God to talk back.
There will never come a day when humans don't need the Messengers since that is the ONLY WAY to ever get any messages from God.

God does not confirm anything with ordinary humans since God never communicates to them.

It already happened.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

Why do you give me stories about some people created different just to hear God? Medical science has never confirmed those differences in anyone. Show me the example.

If the only difference between messengers and people is they have talked with God, then that confirms I am a messenger. God never asked me to send any messages. I am here to tell you God isn't going to intimidate nor decide your free choices for you. The crutch is not needed. Figure it out!! It has never ever been beyond anyone. That is the Message!!

I find it funny that you are so willing to accept a person as a messenger when they tell you what you want to hear or what you agree with, yet when I speak of God, it's easier for you to ignore. Aren't you choosing to see God only as you want God to be?

Is what I have been telling you so far fetched that you can't see it is a step forward to a Higher Level? Can the next generation be so narrow minded they can not see what I speak of? Are you so set in your ways that you can not see a wider view? The first thing God pointed out to me was that mankind carries such a narrow view. Is this really so hard for you to see??

Perhaps, it's all just a test of Intelligence.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Bird123]

Well, here you are, out in the woods, scooping tadpoles out of the pond, taking them home and putting them in a glass bowl or whatever.

You expect that in return for maintaining their environment, they'll occasionally entertain you by doing whatever amphibians do.

And when you get bored, you can either return them to the pond or ...

So God doesn't want anything from me. [He]'s merely curious to know how humans behave. When humans are entertaining, [he]'s interested; and when they're not, [he] goes down to the Celestial Golf Club and plays a round or two with the other gods and maybe they have dinner there and tell jokes and give each other tips about how the market will probably go.


Okay, they play exquisitely fine golf, have diet-conscious meals, booze selected with extraordinary knowledge and insight, and tell these enormously obscure but clever jokes that require intimate knowledge of the mating habits of the species of thousands of universes.

Question? Isn't God supposed to be Accomplished?? From your description, God is not accomplished. God is merely entertaining Himself.

What about you? Are you accomplished or merely entertaining yourself? If you say you are only entertaining yourself, you forget about the monkey wrench in the system. Adversity, Problems, and Challenges show up to point the way. By overcoming these things, you acquire knowledge, wisdom, and strength that carries you forward with much more capabilities to be able reach a much Higher Level of capabilities. You are Accomplished at learning and growing.

Now, if you are accomplished, should not God be accomplished as well? God is accomplished at seeing to it that you are accomplished. People see God as things being about God. In reality, to God, things are about His children and you are one of God's children. Turn your view around. There is so much knowledge living on the other side you have not considered.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Trailblazer]

Why do you give me stories about some people created different just to hear God? Medical science has never confirmed those differences in anyone. Show me the example.

Of course medical science cannot verify that, it is a religious belief.

If the only difference between messengers and people is they have talked with God, then that confirms I am a messenger.

No, you are not a Messenger of God unless God made you a Messenger. Anyone can say they got messages from God, but that doesn't make them a Messenger of God.

I find it funny that you are so willing to accept a person as a messenger when they tell you what you want to hear or what you agree with, yet when I speak of God, it's easier for you to ignore. Aren't you choosing to see God only as you want God to be?

I accept a person as a Messenger of God based upon the evidence that supports his claim to be a Messenger. You have no evidence to support your claim, all you have is a claim.

Whether or not I accept a person as a Messenger has nothing to do with what I want to hear.

 

[Kfox]

I accept a person as a Messenger of God based upon the evidence that supports his claim to be a Messenger. You have no evidence to support your claim, all you have is a claim.

Can you give an example of the type of evidence you would find convincing?

 

[Trailblazer]

Can you give an example of the type of evidence you would find convincing?

The evidence for a Messenger of God is as follows:

1. His own Self, who He was, His character (His qualities)

2. His Revelation, what He accomplished (His Mission on earth/ the history of His Cause)

3. His Writings are additional evidence because they show who He was as a person, what He taught about God and other things, and what accomplished on His mission.

@Bird123 does not have any of these, all he has is a claim that God spoke to him.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

Yes, but I also believe it because it is logical.

What is the logic?

If God exists and if it was possible for humans to understand God communicating to them directly, why hasn't God communicated directly to everyone?

That is my question.

God is All-Powerful, so God could do that. If God is All-Knowing then God would have to know the best way to communicate to humans to accomplish His goals. Direct communication to everyone cannot be the best way or God would have used it.

This makes no sense. If you put one person in between two people communication the likelihood of errors in communication will increase, and will increase every time you put someone or something in-between two people.

There are only three mutually exclusive logical possibilities, given what can see in this world:

1. God exists and communicates to Messengers who establish religions, or
2. God exists and does not communicate to humans at all, or
3. God does not exist

How do you know this? There are plenty of people that claim they talk to God directly, why dismiss them?

If God existed God would communicate directly to everyone is not a logical possibility, because if God exists God does not communicate directly to everyone.

How does someone tell the difference between a god that does not exist and a god that does not communicate with them directly?

If God exists, we know that God does not communicate directly to everyone, so we know that if God existed God would not do that.
It is at that point that we ask ourselves why God does not do that, if we want to know.

How do you know this? God could not exist as well. How do you determine the differnce?

How do you think you would know, given you don't know anything about God. It could just as well be an evil spirit trying to trick you.
There are lots of people who believe that God communicated to them, but why should anyone believe them? Where is the evidence?

I agree.

What would be a reason to believe it? How do you think you can know anything about God without a religion?

I have no idea, maybe God talking directly to people as many claim?