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What does God want from you?
- Thread starter Bird123
- Start date
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
It tells me that Christians believe that Jesus was resurrected.
That in no way means that Jesus was actually resurrected.
Even if Jesus was resurrected, so what? It makes no difference at all. It is utterly meaningless.
Bird123
Well-Known Member
Question: How does mercy help unless you are condemning??? Condemning, a petty thing mankind holds so dear, isn't God supposed to be above such petty things? Condemning is the real problem.No, that is NOT what I said. The Messengers educate mankind and prepare them for life in the spiritual world. They are not crutches, they are guides. Don't you know the 'difference' between a crutch and a guide?
"The Prophets and Messengers of God have been sent down for the sole purpose of guiding mankind to the straight Path of Truth. The purpose underlying Their revelation hath been to educate all men, that they may, at the hour of death, ascend, in the utmost purity and sanctity and with absolute detachment, to the throne of the Most High. The light which these souls radiate is responsible for the progress of the world and the advancement of its peoples.”
They did not wait. Messengers have always been sent to humanity, ever since the dawn of man.
Get over it. Nobody is valuing those things.
People are not being taught and learning to value what you refer to as 'those petty things mankind holds so dear.'
Everyone learns through living life but not everyone stops doing things like committing crimes and not everyone stops hating others.
Yes, there is a time limit on learning as we only have until the end of this earthly life.
Everyone is in need of God's mercy because we all do wrong things since nobody is perfect.
Grace is not 'special help' for special people. Everyone gets God's grace.
"Grace is a constant theme in the Bible, and it culminates in the New Testament with the coming of Jesus (John 1:17). The word translated "grace" in the New Testament comes from the Greek word charis, which means “favor, blessing, or kindness.” We can all extend grace to others; but when the word grace is used in connection with God, it takes on a more powerful meaning. Grace is God choosing to bless us rather than curse us as our sin deserves. It is His benevolence to the undeserving."
What is the grace of God? | GotQuestions.org
What is the grace of God? What does it mean that God is gracious? What does the grace of God mean, practically speaking?www.gotquestions.org
Stop misrepresenting me with the straw man because I am getting really tired of it.
I have no desire for payback, revenge and vengeance.
I don't want to punish and hurt those who have hurt me. Nobody has even hurt me!
Justice is not payback, revenge or vengeance, it is punishment when punishment is deserved.
There is no such thing as 'before the Messengers' since Messengers have come to humanity since the dawn of man, so nobody has ever been without a Messenger..
God's mercy comes to humanity through the Messengers, who have been sent by God from the beginning of time.
“Can one of sane mind ever seriously imagine that, in view of certain words the meaning of which he cannot comprehend, the portal of God’s infinite guidance can ever be closed in the face of men? Can he ever conceive for these Divine Luminaries, these resplendent Lights either a beginning or an end? What outpouring flood can compare with the stream of His all-embracing grace, and what blessing can excel the evidences of so great and pervasive a mercy? There can be no doubt whatever that if for one moment the tide of His mercy and grace were to be withheld from the world, it would completely perish. For this reason, from the beginning that hath no beginning the portals of Divine mercy have been flung open to the face of all created things, and the clouds of Truth will continue to the end that hath no end to rain on the soil of human capacity, reality and personality their favors and bounties. Such hath been God’s method continued from everlasting to everlasting.”
It is not all the religions with faulty MATH. You are the one with the MATH does not add up.
You have your own private version of MATH, one you invented to go with what you want to Believe about God.
You have that backwards. Your very words prove that what you say doesn't come from God.
That's what I see. It's very clear!!
I do not understand this grace, this kindness and special favors God is supposed to be giving. This physical life is set. God will not allow anyone to interfere with the lessons of another. Now, are you telling me those messengers can convince God to interfere? In reality, God will give His children anything if it doesn't interfere with their lessons or the lessons of another. It goes against God's system to interfere with those lessons.
Maybe grace is religion's way of promising favor from God for those followers.
How can you say your idea of justice is not payback? OK, maybe this is a language thing. Define your idea of Punishment. Define when you think punishment is deserved.
You justify those petty things because you value them. Until you see them for what they are, you will choose to value them. Until, in further lessons, you Discover what they are. you are for them. Keep watching those results. Those petty things will not lead to the best results regardless of you believing they will. Yes, it's lessons those messengers will need to learn, in time, as well.
Just how many messengers have their been? Who is keeping track? Who decides and by what standards are they determined to be messengers? In reality, your messengers only existed when they decided to start a religion, right?
That's what I see. It's very clear!!
It makes a big difference: your supposed messenger is dead, and my teacher is alive. Jesus is a king in heavens right now, and he is coming to judge the world.
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
Well, Baha'is need there to be laws from God. And they need the old laws to be renewed by every new manifestation. But if TB takes a look at the laws in the Bible, she might see things differently and agree with you... at with some of the laws. But really, Baha'is don't take the Bible literally anyway. So, why take the laws as having come literally from God? Like this one...
Exodus 21:28 “If a bull gores a man or woman to death, the bull is to be stoned to death, and its meat must not be eaten. But the owner of the bull will not be held responsible.... "
There are over 600 laws. Laws about all sorts of things.
- The Ten Commandments
- Moral laws – on murder, theft, honesty, adultery, homosexuality, etc.
- Social laws – on property, inheritance, marriage and divorce.
- Food laws – on what is clean and unclean, on cooking and storing food.
- Purity laws – on menstruation, seminal emissions, skin disease and mildew, etc.
- Feasts – the Day of Atonement, Passover, Feast of Tabernacles, Feast of Unleavened Bread, Feast of Weeks etc.
- Sacrifices and offerings – the sin offering, burnt offering, whole offering, heave offering, Passover sacrifice, meal offering, wave offering, peace offering, drink offering, thank offering, dough offering, incense offering, red heifer, scapegoat, first fruits, etc.
- Instructions for the priesthood and the high priest, including tithes.
- Instructions regarding the Tabernacle, and which were later applied to the Temple in Jerusalem, including those concerning the Holy of Holies containing the Ark of the Covenant (in which were the tablets of the law, Aaron's rod, the manna). Instructions and for the construction of various altars.
- Forward looking instructions for time when Israel would demand a king.
I find the wicked are Not eternal - Psalm 37:38; Psalm 92:7; Psalm 104:35; Psalm 145:20; Proverbs 2:21-22
Jesus told us what would be the ' pangs of distress ' as recorded at Matthew 24:6-8 see also Luke 21:11
Christian armor is Not carnal but 'spiritual armor' - Ephesians 6:11-17
Christian weapons are Not carnal - 2nd Corinthians 10:4
Christians walk by faith ( confidence in the Bible ) and Not by sighted ( material ) things - 2nd Cor. 5:7
We are forearmed that the powers in charge will be saying, " Peace and Security......" ( 1st Thess. 5:2-3 ) as the precursor to the coming great tribulation of Rev. 7:14.
Just like God's people were 'saved/delivered/rescued' at Egypt's 10th plague, so it shall be - Isaiah 26:20 - without armaments.
..... and for the figurative humble 'sheep' at Jesus' coming Glory Time the 'sheep' receive a favorable judgement. - Matt. 25:31-34,37
To me religion is Not about 'mankind's attempt' to understand God, but Bible education is about the best way to serve God.
Jesus understands and instructed as to who and how to worship at John 4:23-24 .
Religion being void of images, a spirited religion active as seeing the invisible as real.
Yes, God hides nothing, but false clergy who try to fleece the Flock of God, they hide the scriptural view. - Acts 20:29-30
Humans have been around for at least 100,000 years. Many religions were considered true for all those humans before the Bible happens to have been written, and much has been written by more humans afterwards. What would make you suppose that in all that time, a god of all mankind would choose to step in for just a little while in all that history? And speak to such a small sample of all the humanity that lived on earth at the time the Bible was written?
You may not see why that is so hard for some of us to accept, but if so, consider why you don't believe that Muhammad was God's last Prophet -- since he wrote (as dictated) a book that says exactly that. Or, for that matter, Joseph Smith.
We find people vote other people in office, but even a president is Not a permanent position.
Unlike worldly rulers resurrected heavenly Jesus is in lasting office because Jesus will Not die.
Jesus is King ( ruler) of God's governmental kingdom over Earth for a thousand years - 1st Corinthians 15:24-26.
So, the meaning is: only Jesus will make the difference in being the one who will restore paradisical conditions to Earth. - Rev. 22:2
Answer: Patience
The passing of time has allowed for all of us to be born and think who we would like as Sovereign over us.
If God had already taken action then His purpose to populate Earth - Genesis 1:28 - would Not be fulfilled.
The issue of Sovereignty is at stake.
Who can govern best ?
By Adam breaking God's Law then Adam set up People Rule as governing superior to God Rule.
Only the passing of time would truly answer and settle that for all times.
Jesus stepped in time. Jesus gave us a job to do - Matthew 24:14 - tell the nations about God's kingdom ( Daniel 2:44 )
We are at the ' final phase ' of that great preaching/teaching work.
This means we are now nearing the ' final signal ' of the saying of " Peace and Security........" - 1st Thess. 5:2-3 - before Jesus takes the action as found at Isaiah 11:3-4; Revelation 19:14-15
Um, okay -- hurl scripture at me. What was the date of Adam's creation?
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Jesus and Baha'u'llah are both physically dead and they are both in heaven in a spiritual body at the Right Hand of God.
They have the same status in God's eyes since they are both Messengers of God.
Jesus is not coming back to earth, ever. He finished the work thta God gave Him to do so there is no reason for Him to come back.
Only God can judge the world and separate the sheep from the goats, and God is doing so right now.
John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
I believe the NT writers claimed that Jesus did get resurrected from the dead. If that's not true, then that's the bigger hoax ever committed. But it shouldn't be blown off with a "So what?", because if it is true, then it's the greatest miracle that's ever happened.
But the Baha'i Faith has a way to make it true... almost. As you probably know by now, they say that the resurrection was symbolic... that Jesus rose "spiritually" not "physically", that the body of Jesus died, stayed dead, and has long since rotted away. Great. Unless that's not true.
So, are the Baha'is are right? Because the Baha'i Faith makes incredible claims too. The big one being that their prophet, Baha'u'llah, is the return of Christ. And lots of us here are questioning that, and questioning Christians. But we are not saying, "So what". We are trying to get answers to determine if their claims are true or not.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Jesus us just as dead as all the other Messengers of God, meaning Jesus is physically dead.
There are no physical bodies living in heaven since heaven is a purely spiritual world.
That means that Jesus is not alive in heaven in a physical body. Jesus is alive in heaven in a spiritual body.
1 Corinthians 15 New Living Translation
40 There are also bodies in the heavens and bodies on the earth. The glory of the heavenly bodies is different from the glory of the earthly bodies.
44 They are buried as natural human bodies, but they will be raised as spiritual bodies. For just as there are natural bodies, there are also spiritual bodies.
No, Jesus is not coming back to earth to rule.
Jesus never promised to return to earth, not once in the New Testament. Jesus said His work was finished here and He was no more in the world. That means that the return of Christ has to be another Person.
John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
Who is the Son of man who will come in the clouds of heaven?
Jesus never claimed to be a king, and He never said he was coming to rule.
John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.
John 18:37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.
These two verses in John 18 completely negate that Jesus is the King of this world or that Jesus will ever come to this world to rule it, and they fit perfectly together with John 17:4 and John 17:11. Jesus came into this world to bear witness unto the truth about God. He did that so there is no more reason for Jesus to come back to this world again. That is why Jesus said “I am no more in the world.”
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
In case you didn't know, the Baha'is don't believe Jesus came back to life. They believe those verses about the resurrection are symbolic. Which is fine, but then for a Baha'i to take some cherry-picked verses about Jesus not coming back as being literally true is a little odd.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
If it's true, but it can NEVER be proven to be true, it can only be believed.
If it's true it would be a miracle, but it would still be a So What? because a physical body coming back to life has no value at at all.
Christians worship the flesh body of Jesus, which goes completely against what Jesus taught.
Jesus taught that only the spirit matters, the flesh profits nothing.
John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
If it is true that Baha'u'llah was the Promised One of all ages then that is one of the greatest events of human history.
“For centuries, people from all over the world have been hoping and praying that they will be the generation which will witness the appearance of their Promised One. Not many have considered the possibility that these prophecies from the various religions might actually all be foretelling the exact same event.
Members of the Baha'i Faith believe that in the middle of the last century these prophecies actually were fulfilled and that the Promised One truly did appear.
Baha'u'llah, the Prophet founder of the Baha'i Faith, claims to be the Promised One whose coming was explicitly foretold, not only in the Old and the New Testaments.... but also in the prophecies of the Hindu, Buddhist, Zoroastrian, Islamic and other religions.
If Baha'u'llah truly is the Promised One then His appearance is one of the greatest events of human history. Are Baha'u'llah's claim true? How can we know for certain? Just take a look at some of the proofs and prophecies... and then decide for yourself.”
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Since ho humans are perfect we are all in need of God's mercy.
What does may God have mercy mean?
This is a quality that has to do with compassion, forgiveness, and leniency. If convicted of a crime, you might plead for the judge's mercy, meaning a lesser punishment. When people say "May God have mercy on me!" they're asking for forgiveness. Mercy may be given or received.
Mercy - Definition, Meaning & Synonyms | Vocabulary.com
God's grace is God's unmerited favor and love toward humankind. It is an unconditional act of his kindness and mercy...
God's grace is an attitude of God towards humans and it does not interfere with any of the lessons we are learning in this life.
No, God's grace is extended to for everyone, it is not only for followers of religions.
Justice is not payback, justice is punishment when punishment is deserved.
Punishment is the imposition of a penalty for the committed offense.
Payback is an act of revenge or retaliation for the committed offense.
“In His Tablets ‘Abdu’l-Bahá explains the difference between revenge and punishment. He affirms that individuals do not have the right to take revenge, that revenge is despised in the eyes of God, and that the motive for punishment is not vengeance, but the imposition of a penalty for the committed offence. In Some Answered Questions, He confirms that it is the right of society to impose punishments on criminals for the purpose of protecting its members and defending its existence.” The Kitáb-i-Aqdas, p. 203
The Messengers of God are the Manifestations of universal Prophethood Who appeared independently. They are the lawgivers and the founders of a new cycle of religion, by which the foundations of new religion are established, and a new book is revealed. The Manifestations of universal Prophethood Who appeared independently are, for example, Abraham, Moses, Christ, Muhammad, the Báb and Bahá’u’lláh, but there were others.
Question.—How many kinds of Prophets are there?
Answer.—Universally, the Prophets are of two kinds. One are the independent Prophets Who are followed; the other kind are not independent and are themselves followers.
The independent Prophets are the lawgivers and the founders of a new cycle. Through Their appearance the world puts on a new garment, the foundations of religion are established, and a new book is revealed. Without an intermediary They receive bounty from the Reality of the Divinity, and Their illumination is an essential illumination. They are like the sun which is luminous in itself: the light is its essential necessity; it does not receive light from any other star. These Dawning-places of the morn of Unity are the sources of bounty and the mirrors of the Essence of Reality.
The other Prophets are followers and promoters, for they are branches and not independent; they receive the bounty of the independent Prophets, and they profit by the light of the Guidance of the universal Prophets. They are like the moon, which is not luminous and radiant in itself, but receives its light from the sun.
The Manifestations of universal Prophethood Who appeared independently are, for example, Abraham, Moses, Christ, Muhammad, the Báb and Bahá’u’lláh. But the others who are followers and promoters are like Solomon, David, Isaiah, Jeremiah and Ezekiel. For the independent Prophets are founders; They establish a new religion and make new creatures of men; They change the general morals, promote new customs and rules, renew the cycle and the Law. Their appearance is like the season of spring, which arrays all earthly beings in a new garment, and gives them a new life.
With regard to the second sort of Prophets who are followers, these also promote the Law of God, make known the Religion of God, and proclaim His word. Of themselves they have no power and might, except what they receive from the independent Prophets.
Bible chronology places Adam back to 4026 BCE with Adam dying in the year 3096 BCE at age 930 in Genesis.
When they are not because ______________________ - www.jw.org