What does God want from you?

[Bird123]

No, God isn't teaching anything. The Messengers of God are doing the teaching.

How do you think you know what is?

God's laws come from God through the Messengers. Mankind does not create them.
There is nothing petty about God's laws. If everyone followed them there would be no evil in the world.

“The beginning of all things is the knowledge of God, and the end of all things is strict observance of whatsoever hath been sent down from the empyrean of the Divine Will that pervadeth all that is in the heavens and all that is on the earth.”​

Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 5​

You are free to hold that opinion, but I would be careful not to state it as a fact unless you can prove it.

Why do you think that Messengers coerce or intimidate our choices? It is always our choice whether we want to follow their teachings and laws or not. There has never been any intimidation.

Aren't laws used to coerce or intimidate choices? What would God be teaching if God valued Blaming, Judging, Condemning, Controlling, coercing or intimidating choices? If one uses these petty things, isn't one teaching others to use these petty things? Is this really the Higher Level sent from God? If messengers teach or even use this stuff, isn't that proof enough what they say doesn't come from God?

Why would God use laws in an attempt to control when the only thing that matters is Fixing the problems. Control is one of the petty things mankind holds so dear. God doesn't use it. Free will and free choices then teaching what those choices really mean by placing truth in the world is the fix. Problems that aren't fixed do not go away. Throwing those petty things mankind holds so dear at them just stokes the fires of anger, hurt, and hate which leads away from the answers.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Bird123]

I'm afraid not. You haven't even tried to describe a real God to me, such that if I find a real suspect I can determine whether it's God or not.

I'd say all your gods are purely personal mental events. They don't exist in reality. But of course you know that, because you can't show them to me,


In fact I'd be immensely curious about them were they true. But as you know better than most, they're imaginary / conceptual and nothing more.

As for what's true, it seems clear enough that you lack a clear definition of truth, one that will give you an objective test that would tell you what's true and what's not.

If you think that's wrong, simply state the objective test you use.



A friendly tip ─ you might be better off if you cut back on the affected condescension.

Affected condescension? It is you choosing to see this. You want answers that fit your specific terms and ways. When I point in any other direction other than what you want to hear, it's affected condescension. I point and you say I am not pointing. Perhaps a wider view might change the picture for you. Is this condescending or simple what is? I can point to you what is. After that it is in your hands. Your journey or choices have never been up to me.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Bird123]

That is still English.

Perhaps if you widen the view and advance the thinking you will find much more Math than you realize.

Much more knowledge lives beyond the surface. That's in everything around you.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[ppp]

Perhaps

3 strikes and you're out.

 

[Bird123]

Right, like all other 8 billion people on earth. We can't know everything. But we do have knowledge available on the internet, if we are curious and know reputable sources from bogus sources.

No, I have plans this wekend.

What lessons?

No, you are plenty wrong by being wrong all by yourself. You don't defend your claims with evidence, so possibilities are irrelevant.

Yup, that's why serious thinkers are at work.

Including you, so is this a confession?

Like you on these pointless posts? We know already.

Yet you think more highly of your beliefs than the critical thinkers that you try to lecture. You lack evidence and coherent explanations, the one thing we are asking of you.

A lot of broad questions that aren't directly related, and can't be answered with simple answers. Why do you keep creating these posts? They seem to be your thoughts as you eat breakfast. What do they have to do with me?

Don't you see? You are still looking only for Beliefs. Since I am not feeding beliefs, you do not want anything that isn't served up to be accepted or rejected.

By pointing, I am saying you do the work to Discover for yourself. I pointed you in the direction where Discovery is possible. That is not what you want.

I place truth in the world. That will widen other's view to the possibilities. each can explore and Discover for themselves. Doesn't it come down to what one seeks? Do you know yourself? What is it that you seek??

Wisdom is acquired along the journey to Discover knowledge. I want you to acquire Wisdom and not merely believe.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Trailblazer]

This world Teaches.

In a multilevel classroom one will see others learning lessons one has already learned.

I agree. I already explained that I believe is purpose of physical reality is to learn our lessons in the physical world which is a multilevel classroom.

Why do spiritual beings--human souls--begin their lives in the physical world? According to well-known Baha'i author, scholar, and educator John Hatcher, the world is a classroom designed by God to instigate and nurture mental and spiritual growth. The Purpose of Physical Reality examines the components of this classroom to show how everyday experience leads to spiritual insight. Viewing life in this way, we can learn to appreciate the overall justice of God's plan and the subtle interplay between human free will and divine assistance in unleashing human potential. The idea of physical reality as a divine teaching device not only prepares us for further progress in the life beyond, it also provides practical advice about how to attain spiritual and intellectual understanding while we are living on earth.​

The Purpose of Physical Reality: Hatcher, John S: 9781931847230: Amazon.com: Books

The Purpose of Physical Reality [Hatcher, John S] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. The Purpose of Physical Reality

www.amazon.com

Why are those learning lessons from their choices less acceptable in God's eyes? Isn't it a form of hate to judge and condemn others in the learning process?

I never said that those learning lessons from their choices are less acceptable in God's eyes.
I never said anyone should be hated or judged or condemned in the learning process.
I don't know where you are getting these ideas.

What lessons might you or I be learning that others who have already learned might see? Should we be viewed as less acceptable in God's eyes?

I never said that anyone should be viewed as less acceptable in God's eyes.

Doesn't it come down to those petty things mankind holds so dear? When one chooses not to value the petty things mankind holds so dear, one can work at solving the problems rather than generating that which will never lead to the Best choices.That's what I see. It's very clear!!

What petty things?

 

[Trailblazer]

Aren't laws used to coerce or intimidate choices? What would God be teaching if God valued Blaming, Judging, Condemning, Controlling, coercing or intimidating choices? If one uses these petty things, isn't one teaching others to use these petty things? Is this really the Higher Level sent from God? If messengers teach or even use this stuff, isn't that proof enough what they say doesn't come from God?

There is nothing petty about God's Laws. Failure to follow God's Laws is the source of all the evil in the world. It always has been.

“God hath in that Book, and by His behest, decreed as lawful whatsoever He hath pleased to decree, and hath, through the power of His sovereign might, forbidden whatsoever He elected to forbid. To this testifieth the text of that Book. Will ye not bear witness? Men, however, have wittingly broken His law. Is such a behavior to be attributed to God, or to their proper selves? Be fair in your judgment. Every good thing is of God, and every evil thing is from yourselves. Will ye not comprehend? This same truth hath been revealed in all the Scriptures, if ye be of them that understand.”​

Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 149-150​

God does not control or coerce anyone's choices. People have always been free to follow God's Laws or not follow them.

Why would God use laws in an attempt to control when the only thing that matters is Fixing the problems. Control is one of the petty things mankind holds so dear. God doesn't use it. Free will and free choices then teaching what those choices really mean by placing truth in the world is the fix. Problems that aren't fixed do not go away. Throwing those petty things mankind holds so dear at them just stokes the fires of anger, hurt, and hate which leads away from the answers.

No, God does not use control. God gave man free will to make free choices.

Who do you think is going to Fix the problems and how are they going to Fix them?
I believe mankind is going to Fix the problems by following the teachings of Baha'u'llah.

 

[blü 2]

Affected condescension?

Why are you debating your debating style and ignoring all the substantial questions I asked you?

You want answers that fit your specific terms and ways.

I want answer to questions that any reasonable and impartial onlooker would ask. Why are you running away from answering them?

When I point in any other direction other than what you want to hear, it's affected condescension.

When you don't answer, don't address at all, the substantial problems with what you're proposing, you resort to condescension and place it where the real answers should go.

I point and you say I am not pointing.

State clearly and specifically what you're pointing at. Don't use breathtakingly vague terms like the wonders of nature. Point specifically to a single example of the extraordinary and how it implies the reality of some or other superbeing.

What can you put on the table to demonstrate ─ not somehow hint at, but somehow require the reality of ─ this God being of yours?

Why didn't you do that in the very first place?

 

[Gassim]

That paragraph was not a grammatically coherent construction.

The beginning of the universe was the result of the Big Bang, as most theories say, resulting in space (place), time, matter and energy. But neither the Big Bang nor science can explain to us how something came out of nothing. The onset of the universe is outside the scope of science.
Paul Davies said: If I were to sit down and make a mock plan for the universe- one of which you just put together a whole set of make-up laws of physics – your chances of having a universe that was capable of leading to the development an intellectual life-forms your chance is zero

 

[ppp]

The beginning of the universe was the result of the Big Bang, as most theories say, resulting in space (place), time, matter and energy. But neither the Big Bang nor science can explain to us how something came out of nothing. The onset of the universe is outside the scope of science.

Nor is there any scientific claim that something came from nothing. As I said before (and will repeat), Creation Ex Nihilo is a theistic belief. There is no scientific assumption that there ever was an absolute nothing. Your insistence otherwise is just an element of your Creationist superstitions.

 

[Bird123]

I agree. I already explained that I believe is purpose of physical reality is to learn our lessons in the physical world which is a multilevel classroom.

Why do spiritual beings--human souls--begin their lives in the physical world? According to well-known Baha'i author, scholar, and educator John Hatcher, the world is a classroom designed by God to instigate and nurture mental and spiritual growth. The Purpose of Physical Reality examines the components of this classroom to show how everyday experience leads to spiritual insight. Viewing life in this way, we can learn to appreciate the overall justice of God's plan and the subtle interplay between human free will and divine assistance in unleashing human potential. The idea of physical reality as a divine teaching device not only prepares us for further progress in the life beyond, it also provides practical advice about how to attain spiritual and intellectual understanding while we are living on earth.​

The Purpose of Physical Reality: Hatcher, John S: 9781931847230: Amazon.com: Books

The Purpose of Physical Reality [Hatcher, John S] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. The Purpose of Physical Reality

www.amazon.com

I never said that those learning lessons from their choices are less acceptable in God's eyes.
I never said anyone should be hated or judged or condemned in the learning process.
I don't know where you are getting these ideas.

I never said that anyone should be viewed as less acceptable in God's eyes.

What petty things?

We are Spiritual beings in our true natures. No one begins their life as a physical being.

WE are all Living our Lessons. It isn't the advice that is teaching us. On the other hand, advice places knowledge and possibilities at hand. Considering advice is not bad, however one needs to make their own choices instead of the choices of others. Life's lessons are best learned that way. Each must Discover for themselves what the best choices really are.

Examples of the petty things mankind holds so dear are:Blaming, Judging, Condemning, Punishing, Anger, Wrath, Payback, Revenge, Ruling, Controlling, Coercing, Intimidating, Hate, We against they and etc.
How much of these things are being taught by people, society, parents and religion? If you are choosing to use such things in your actions, you are teaching these things. One will choose these things until one understands all sides. When one understands all sides, none of these things will be viable choices one could make? Why not? Intelligence will realize these things will never bring the best results.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Bird123]

There is nothing petty about God's Laws. Failure to follow God's Laws is the source of all the evil in the world. It always has been.

“God hath in that Book, and by His behest, decreed as lawful whatsoever He hath pleased to decree, and hath, through the power of His sovereign might, forbidden whatsoever He elected to forbid. To this testifieth the text of that Book. Will ye not bear witness? Men, however, have wittingly broken His law. Is such a behavior to be attributed to God, or to their proper selves? Be fair in your judgment. Every good thing is of God, and every evil thing is from yourselves. Will ye not comprehend? This same truth hath been revealed in all the Scriptures, if ye be of them that understand.”​

Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 149-150​

God does not control or coerce anyone's choices. People have always been free to follow God's Laws or not follow them.

No, God does not use control. God gave man free will to make free choices.

Who do you think is going to Fix the problems and how are they going to Fix them?
I believe mankind is going to Fix the problems by following the teachings of Baha'u'llah.

The quote about God making laws comes straight from mankind. This is proof it does not come from God. It is mankind who wants to Rule and Control. They make laws in an attempt to do just that. They speak of God's might in an attempt to frighten and coerce people into following their will. Is this really God? What would God be teaching by doing it that way? It certainly isn't a Higher Level.

God has no laws. Make your free choices then learn what those choices really mean. When one understands all sides, Intelligence will make the best choices. Don't you see? There has never ever been a need to define good from evil as mankind attempts and tries to enforce. If ,in the end everyone is selecting the best choices, laws are useless energy spent. Further, If God used them at all, would not God be teaching those children one should control the choices of others? Is this really Intelligent?? It certainly isn't a Higher Level.

Everyone likes to speak of God's power and might. One must not forget God's High Intelligence!! Mankind is not it. Worry not for all God's children walk toward greater Intelligence. Yes, everyone is doing just that regardless of one might think others don't. Widen that view!! It stares us all in the face.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Trailblazer]

We are Spiritual beings in our true natures. No one begins their life as a physical being.

I agree.
We are spiritual beings who have a spiritual nature and a physical nature from the moment of conception when our soul associates with our body.

WE are all Living our Lessons. It isn't the advice that is teaching us. On the other hand, advice places knowledge and possibilities at hand. Considering advice is not bad, however one needs to make their own choices instead of the choices of others. Life's lessons are best learned that way. Each must Discover for themselves what the best choices really are.

I agree.
We all have to learn our own Lessons in order to become what we will become in Life. We can learn and be guided by others but we need to make our own choices instead of the choices of others. In that sense, we all have to Discover the truth for ourselves.

Examples of the petty things mankind holds so dear are:Blaming, Judging, Condemning, Punishing, Anger, Wrath, Payback, Revenge, Ruling, Controlling, Coercing, Intimidating, Hate, We against they and etc.
How much of these things are being taught by people, society, parents and religion?

These things are not taught by my religion as a way that humans should behave, although immoral behaviors should be judged and punished, since that is in accordance with justice.

If you are choosing to use such things in your actions, you are teaching these things. One will choose these things until one understands all sides. When one understands all sides, none of these things will be viable choices one could make? Why not? Intelligence will realize these things will never bring the best results.

Judging and punishing will be viable choices when they are deserved.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Trailblazer]

The quote about God making laws comes straight from mankind. This is proof it does not come from God. It is mankind who wants to Rule and Control. They make laws in an attempt to do just that. They speak of God's might in an attempt to frighten and coerce people into following their will. Is this really God? What would God be teaching by doing it that way? It certainly isn't a Higher Level.

No, the Laws of God come straight from God through the Messengers of God. They always have. Ever heard of the Ten Commandments?
Mankind also makes laws in order to control people, and those laws are fully justified. With no laws, there would be no order in the world.

God has no laws. Make your free choices then learn what those choices really mean. When one understands all sides, Intelligence will make the best choices. Don't you see? There has never ever been a need to define good from evil as mankind attempts and tries to enforce. If ,in the end everyone is selecting the best choices, laws are useless energy spent. Further, If God used them at all, would not God be teaching those children one should control the choices of others? Is this really Intelligent?? It certainly isn't a Higher Level.

God reveals Laws through His Messengers and the Messengers reveal those Laws to humanity. Don't you see? There has always been a need to distinguish good from evil and enforce laws because everyone is not selecting the best choices We need to control some of the bad choices of others because otherwise anarchy would be the result.

Everyone likes to speak of God's power and might. One must not forget God's High Intelligence!! Mankind is not it. Worry not for all God's children walk toward greater Intelligence. Yes, everyone is doing just that regardless of one might think others don't. Widen that view!! It stares us all in the face.

The only reason that God's children are walking toward greater Intelligence is becaue God sent Messengers to guide humanity towards that end.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Bird123]

Why are you debating your debating style and ignoring all the substantial questions I asked you?

I want answer to questions that any reasonable and impartial onlooker would ask. Why are you running away from answering them?


When you don't answer, don't address at all, the substantial problems with what you're proposing, you resort to condescension and place it where the real answers should go.


State clearly and specifically what you're pointing at. Don't use breathtakingly vague terms like the wonders of nature. Point specifically to a single example of the extraordinary and how it implies the reality of some or other superbeing.

What can you put on the table to demonstrate ─ not somehow hint at, but somehow require the reality of ─ this God being of yours?

Why didn't you do that in the very first place?

What am I pointing to? I am pointing to where one can Discover God.

God will always be a belief until one bumps into God. Physical proof of a Spiritual Being isn't going to happen. On the other hand, in this time-based causal universe, any action changes things, thereby that action can be seen. Actions speak louder than words. Understand God's actions and one Understands what God is really all about.

Examples: God created this world where Brains wins. Why did God do this?
God created illness. People get sick. Why did God do this?
God created people to get lonely. Why did God do this?
There are a million questions about God's actions one can ask to figure out.

OK, one thinks God does not exist. It doesn't matter. Ask the questions anyway.
Why is it High Intelligence that Brains win?
Why is sickness High Intelligence?
Why is people getting lonely High Intelligence?

Put the puzzle together. See where it goes. Since God really did create all this, you will be studying God anyway!!

God still does exist? Great!! Ebb and Flow of knowledge. If I were to make a car. There are some things all cars must have: An engine, a way to steer. a way to stop, a place to sit. You get the idea.
If you were to make a universe and a world as we have it today, what are the ebb and flow pieces that will be the easy to find end pieces to the puzzle?

Don't forget the millions of questions to ask. What purpose for people and animals? What is the goal? What is all the change doing?

This is not a 15 minute journey!!!!!!! Stretch advanced thinking.

Put the puzzle together regardless of any beliefs you might have.

When you reach a certain level of understanding, I bet you just might get a visit from God. Hold onto your Hat!!

Now, if you can find no High Intelligence to what you see or not capable of reverse engineering what you see, don't waste your time. You are not ready.

Once again, I can't put it any simpler than that. Each must decide what they seek. Me, I am one who always must know things. See, I do not run out of things to do or learn.

It has always been within your hands.
How long did mankind watch birds fly before they figured out how? It has always been within their hands.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Trailblazer]

God will always be a belief until one bumps into God. Physical proof of a Spiritual Being isn't going to happen.

I agree that Physical proof of a Spiritual Being isn't going to happen, so how can anyone ever "bump into God?"
Case in point: I bumped into God when I was on my way to the market to do some grocery shopping.

 

[blü 2]

God will always be a belief until one bumps into God.

The reality of God will have no credibility until you demonstrate [his] reality.

But when you say "one bumps into God", you're referring to a purely mental event, no? And that's why there are no photos, videos, TV interviews. That's why you can't give God a description appropriate to a being with objective existence.

Physical proof of a Spiritual Being isn't going to happen.

Exactly the same way physical proof of a real Superman, Green Lantern, Captain America, Spiderman, isn't going to happen ─ because they only exist as concepts / things imagined in individual brains. Thus purported paintings, films, TV broadcasts, of them are provided by actors, not by the designated entities, who have no objective existence of their own.

The End.

 

[George-ananda]

OK. God creates the universe and God creates you. What does God want from you?

If you are an atheist, speculate. If God really exists and creates the universe and God creates you. What does God want from you?

Before you just give a quick answer, consider a Being capable of creating the universe and you has to be very very smart. Consider High Intellect with your answers. Make God's answer High Intellect.

I come from the school of thought that says God consciousness is in each of us. The purpose is to experience the return to Oneness through love.

 

[CG Didymus]

The quote about God making laws comes straight from mankind.

This thing about God's laws coming from God's messengers is such a Baha'i thing. I've argued with Baha'is now for years about their "progressive" revelation, that every messenger/manifestation brings new laws from God to fit the new times and needs. But all these messengers prior to the Baha'i prophet were only bringing laws that were only good for a certain people at a certain time and place. They were not universal laws meant for all people.

Other religions, at those same times but in different places had their own laws that fit their culture. If Baha'is took a good, hard look at the laws in the Bible I doubt that they would see God's handiwork in many of them. But, instead, the work of the religious leaders of the community trying to make laws to get the people to follow what they, the religious leaders thought best... then they attributed those laws to God to give them more power and authority. Then gave the death penalty for breaking some of those laws, like obeying the Sabbath, to try and force the people to obey them.

I see that clearly. But Baha'is? No, of course not. It would go against their beliefs.

 

[Trailblazer]

Other religions, at those same times but in different places had their own laws that fit their culture. If Baha'is took a good, hard look at the laws in the Bible I doubt that they would see God's handiwork in many of them. But, instead, the work of the religious leaders of the community trying to make laws to get the people to follow what they, the religious leaders thought best... then they attributed those laws to God to give them more power and authority. Then gave the death penalty for breaking some of those laws, like obeying the Sabbath, to try and force the people to obey them.

I see that clearly. But Baha'is? No, of course not. It would go against their beliefs.

I also see it clearly. It doesn't go against Baha'i beliefs since Baha'is are free to believe whatever they want to about the Bible.
I question whether those laws in the Old Testament came from God.

Baha'i views of the Bible vary widely. My views lie in the middle area.

Introduction

Although Bahá'ís universally share a great respect for the Bible, and acknowledge its status as sacred literature, their individual views about its authoritative status range along the full spectrum of possibilities. At one end there are those who assume the uncritical evangelical or fundamentalist-Christian view that the Bible is wholly and indisputably the word of God. At the other end are Bahá'ís attracted to the liberal, scholarly conclusion that the Bible is no more than a product of complex historical and human forces. Between these extremes is the possibility that the Bible contains the Word of God, but only in a particular sense of the phrase 'Word of God' or in particular texts. I hope to show that a Bahá'í view must lie in this middle area, and can be defined to some degree.

Bahá'í teachers and scholars both have an interest in solving this problem. It should be noted at this point that the problem of Biblical authority addressed here is logically prior to that of Biblical interpretation, and the defining of a Bahá'í view is logically prior to engaging in inter-religious dialogue.

Conclusion

The Bahá'í viewpoint proposed by this essay has been established as follows: The Bible is a reliable source of Divine guidance and salvation, and rightly regarded as a sacred and holy book. However, as a collection of the writings of independent and human authors, it is not necessarily historically accurate. Nor can the words of its writers, although inspired, be strictly defined as 'The Word of God' in the way the original words of Moses and Jesus could have been. Instead there is an area of continuing interest for Bahá'í scholars, possibly involving the creation of new categories for defining authoritative religious literature.

A Baháí View of the Bible