What does God want from you?

[Bird123]

I agree.
We are spiritual beings who have a spiritual nature and a physical nature from the moment of conception when our soul associates with our body.

I agree.
We all have to learn our own Lessons in order to become what we will become in Life. We can learn and be guided by others but we need to make our own choices instead of the choices of others. In that sense, we all have to Discover the truth for ourselves.

These things are not taught by my religion as a way that humans should behave, although immoral behaviors should be judged and punished, since that is in accordance with justice.

Judging and punishing will be viable choices when they are deserved.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

I don't think you have it just right. We are Spiritual beings in our true nature. We are installed in our physical bodies after birth when long term memories start to become possible. The connections are made in the brain.

Do you really think judging and punishing will be viable at a Higher Level? Do you want payback and revenge so much that you would teach your children that it is ok to intimidate or coerce the actions of others through inflicting pain? Why do you want payback so much? Shouldn't the goal be to Fix the real problems over You hurt me then I hurt you?

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Bird123]

No, the Laws of God come straight from God through the Messengers of God. They always have. Ever heard of the Ten Commandments?
Mankind also makes laws in order to control people, and those laws are fully justified. With no laws, there would be no order in the world.

God reveals Laws through His Messengers and the Messengers reveal those Laws to humanity. Don't you see? There has always been a need to distinguish good from evil and enforce laws because everyone is not selecting the best choices We need to control some of the bad choices of others because otherwise anarchy would be the result.

The only reason that God's children are walking toward greater Intelligence is becaue God sent Messengers to guide humanity towards that end.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

God has sent no messengers. God has made no laws. This is mankind. God grants total free choices because there can be no real learning without it. When one is not free, one will make the opposite choice as soon as one is free in order to Discover what that other choice means. Unlike mankind, God doesn't control. God teaches.

It's clear you do not understand all the sides of those petty things mankind holds so dear. You must have laws, control, punishment, payback. You must have definitions of good verses evil so you can blame, condemn, we are good; they are bad. Are you blind to the fact that these things just generate the excuse to Hate?

Go ahead, Free choices, you will Discover, in time, these things will not bring the best results. How can you climb to a Higher Level when you hold unto these things for dear life? Is there not a better way? How can you ever create a Heavenly state for yourself and others with this stuff. Further, You might not think you or religion teaches these things but actions can teach much louder than words.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Bird123]

I agree that Physical proof of a Spiritual Being isn't going to happen, so how can anyone ever "bump into God?"
Case in point: I bumped into God when I was on my way to the market to do some grocery shopping.

Why do you choose to limit your view? What happens when one walls up and blocks out possibilities? I have pointed a path by which one can bump into God. On the other hand, I have found few people who actually want to find God. That includes theists as well as atheists.

Worry not. Everybody will bump into God after death between physical lives. Yes, worry not. You already know God whether you know you know or not. You are going to really like God. God doesn't value all those petty things mankind holds so dear.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Trailblazer]

I don't think you have it just right. We are Spiritual beings in our true nature. We are installed in our physical bodies after birth when long term memories start to become possible. The connections are made in the brain.

Sorry, I do not believe in reincarnation, so I do not believe that we existed before we were conceived.
I believe that we are Spiritual Beings who live in physical bodies, so we have two natures, a spiritual nature and a physical nature.

Do you really think judging and punishing will be viable at a Higher Level? Do you want payback and revenge so much that you would teach your children that it is ok to intimidate or coerce the actions of others through inflicting pain? Why do you want payback so much? Shouldn't the goal be to Fix the real problems over You hurt me then I hurt you?

Yes, I think judging and punishing is viable at a Higher Level, since that is God's System.

Your attitude is that of a petulant child who doesn't want to be punished for wrongdoing and you project that onto other people.
What you refer to as judging and punishing is justice, which is punishment for wrong actions that hurt others.
Judging and punishing is not payback or revenge. It is not you hurt me then I hurt you. It is justice for actions committed.

How do you think society is going to Fix the real problems, let thieves and rapists and murderers run loose on the streets, hoping thye will Discover the right way of living?
Once you eliminate justice systems all over the world, what would you be left with?
Do you ever bother to think, or do you just believe in your self-proclaimed religion called Discovery?

 

[Bird123]

The reality of God will have no credibility until you demonstrate [his] reality.

But when you say "one bumps into God", you're referring to a purely mental event, no? And that's why there are no photos, videos, TV interviews. That's why you can't give God a description appropriate to a being with objective existence.


Exactly the same way physical proof of a real Superman, Green Lantern, Captain America, Spiderman, isn't going to happen ─ because they only exist as concepts / things imagined in individual brains. Thus purported paintings, films, TV broadcasts, of them are provided by actors, not by the designated entities, who have no objective existence of their own.

The End.

Why is it you are always wanting me to do the work for you? Still, dealing with Beliefs?

I have pointed you in the direction by which you or anyone is capable of Discovery. Each must do their own journey!!! I can tell you what is, however proof of what is rests on the one who SEEKS!!! Clearly, you do not seek.

OK, don't believe in God. When I started my journey, I was open to the possibility that God did not exist.
Question. Look around you. Do you see evidence of Intelligence in the universe and the world around you? If you say no, you surely are not ready. There are things you must learn for yourself before you can Discover anything.

Perhaps, religion has corrupted your thinking. I am not looking for anyone to Believe anything. I simply placed What Is out there. Make your free choices anyway you want. I'm Happy!!

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Bird123]

I come from the school of thought that says God consciousness is in each of us. The purpose is to experience the return to Oneness through love.

God is actually Someone. On the other hand, you are headed in a good direction. Among all the things one learns through the many physical lifetimes is Unconditional Love. Unconditional Love always chooses to do what is Best for the other. It is not an easy thing to do, however it will end with the Best results.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Trailblazer]

God has sent no messengers. God has made no laws. This is mankind.

So now you speak for what God has done? On what authority? How do you think you know what God has done?

God grants total free choices because there can be no real learning without it. When one is not free, one will make the opposite choice as soon as one is free in order to Discover what that other choice means. Unlike mankind, God doesn't control. God teaches.

Yes, God does allow total free choices since God gave man free will to choose, and God does not intervene in our choices.
However, no society allows for total free choices with no consequences for the choices people make.

God does not teach. God sends Messengers to teach.

It's clear you do not understand all the sides of those petty things mankind holds so dear. You must have laws, control, punishment, payback. You must have definitions of good verses evil so you can blame, condemn, we are good; they are bad. Are you blind to the fact that these things just generate the excuse to Hate?

Do you have any idea how many times you have said the same things you just said during the last 5 years?
Do you thunk that by repeating it it is going to make any difference?

Society must have laws, control, and punishment, but that is not payback.
You live in a complete fantasy world that your created, believing that societies can exist without laws and punishments for breaking the law.
Of course there is good and evil in the world, that is a reality, but you live in a fantasy where everyone is the same.

Who said anything about hate? Punishment for wrong actions is not hate. It is deserved justice.

Go ahead, Free choices, you will Discover, in time, these things will not bring the best results. How can you climb to a Higher Level when you hold unto these things for dear life? Is there not a better way? How can you ever create a Heavenly state for yourself and others with this stuff. Further, You might not think you or religion teaches these things but actions can teach much louder than words.

So let's just allow all the criminals to run free, so in time, they can Discover what will bring the best results.
The only thing they will Discover are more people to rape and murder.
How can you ever create a Heavenly state for yourself and others with this stuff?

Further, You might think that only religion teaches these things about justice, but nobody need a religion to realize that there must be both rewards and punishments in a world that has both good and evil.

 

[Bird123]

This thing about God's laws coming from God's messengers is such a Baha'i thing. I've argued with Baha'is now for years about their "progressive" revelation, that every messenger/manifestation brings new laws from God to fit the new times and needs. But all these messengers prior to the Baha'i prophet were only bringing laws that were only good for a certain people at a certain time and place. They were not universal laws meant for all people.

Other religions, at those same times but in different places had their own laws that fit their culture. If Baha'is took a good, hard look at the laws in the Bible I doubt that they would see God's handiwork in many of them. But, instead, the work of the religious leaders of the community trying to make laws to get the people to follow what they, the religious leaders thought best... then they attributed those laws to God to give them more power and authority. Then gave the death penalty for breaking some of those laws, like obeying the Sabbath, to try and force the people to obey them.

I see that clearly. But Baha'is? No, of course not. It would go against their beliefs.

Beliefs can be a powerful thing especially beliefs one wants to be the truth. You are right. Beliefs can get one to ignore the real truth that is staring one in the face. Perhaps, this is something religions count on. Accept, Believe, and Follow seems to be the cry. On the other hand, to Question is the start on the journey to Discover the Real Truth. Those who do not want one to Question, do not want one to know the Real Truth.

Beliefs are easy. They take little work. There is much more effort needed to Discover the Real Truth. Unlike Beliefs, Real Truth will not always be an agreeable thing, however it will lead to the best results.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Bird123]

This thing about God's laws coming from God's messengers is such a Baha'i thing. I've argued with Baha'is now for years about their "progressive" revelation, that every messenger/manifestation brings new laws from God to fit the new times and needs. But all these messengers prior to the Baha'i prophet were only bringing laws that were only good for a certain people at a certain time and place. They were not universal laws meant for all people.

Other religions, at those same times but in different places had their own laws that fit their culture. If Baha'is took a good, hard look at the laws in the Bible I doubt that they would see God's handiwork in many of them. But, instead, the work of the religious leaders of the community trying to make laws to get the people to follow what they, the religious leaders thought best... then they attributed those laws to God to give them more power and authority. Then gave the death penalty for breaking some of those laws, like obeying the Sabbath, to try and force the people to obey them.

I see that clearly. But Baha'is? No, of course not. It would go against their beliefs.

Beliefs can be a powerful thing especially beliefs one wants to be the truth. You are right. Beliefs can get one to ignore the real truth that is staring one in the face. Perhaps, this is something religions count on. Accept, Believe, and Follow seems to be the cry. On the other hand, to Question is the start on the journey to Discover the Real Truth. Those who do not want one to Question, do not want one to know the Real Truth.

Beliefs are easy. They take little work. There is much more effort needed to Discover the Real Truth. Unlike Beliefs, Real Truth will not always be an agreeable thing, however it will lead to the best results.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Trailblazer]

Why do you choose to limit your view? What happens when one walls up and blocks out possibilities? I have pointed a path by which one can bump into God. On the other hand, I have found few people who actually want to find God. That includes theists as well as atheists.

Rational theists and atheists know that God can never be found and that's why they don't go looking, hoping they'll bump into God.

Worry not. Everybody will bump into God after death between physical lives. Yes, worry not. You already know God whether you know you know or not. You are going to really like God. God doesn't value all those petty things mankind holds so dear.

Nobody will ever bump into God, not in this life or in the afterlife.

God highly values the things you consider petty.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[blü 2]

Why is it you are always wanting me to do the work for you? Still, dealing with Beliefs?

Why do you never answer straight questions about the strange smell of what you're selling?

I have pointed you in the direction by which you or anyone is capable of Discovery. Each must do their own journey!!! I can tell you what is, however proof of what is rests on the one who SEEKS!!! Clearly, you do not seek.

More patronizing condescension ─ which tells me you don't answer my questions because you can't.

I am not looking for anyone to Believe anything. I simply placed What Is out there.

But all you've placed out there is meaningless blather. And now you say that's because you don't offer anything to be believed. Why do you post all all? Just to troll?

 

[Gassim]

That paragraph was not a grammatically coherent construction.

Is abiogenesis mostly considered fact by scientists, or is it merely a belief held by atheists. Atheists are mostly not scientists, so their opinions are irrelevant. Abiogenesis being an uncertain probable theory of the evaluation or living beings, the time needed to complete all their probabilities (required to form a living organism) will outweigh the age of the entire universe.

 

[Gassim]

Careful now -- even the facts can change.

"Human beings are incapable of setting foot on the moon" was once as true a fact as you can get -- but setting that in stone would've been a terrible mistake.

View attachment 81052





Then I stand by my original statement -- Atheists do indeed have beliefs.

It is true atheists do indeed have beliefs
Atheism begins to question or deny everything: religions, dogmas, God, scriptures, prophecies. In this sense, the American professor Philip Johnson asserts a man who questions a group of creeds is, in fact, a true believer in another set of beliefs, even if he claims otherwise

 

[CG Didymus]

Beliefs can be a powerful thing especially beliefs one wants to be the truth. You are right. Beliefs can get one to ignore the real truth that is staring one in the face. Perhaps, this is something religions count on. Accept, Believe, and Follow seems to be the cry. On the other hand, to Question is the start on the journey to Discover the Real Truth. Those who do not want one to Question, do not want one to know the Real Truth.

Beliefs are easy. They take little work. There is much more effort needed to Discover the Real Truth. Unlike Beliefs, Real Truth will not always be an agreeable thing, however it will lead to the best results.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

Some of us have come to realize that there is a problem with "organized" religion. It has to have religious leaders and laws. It has to get people to believe in a particular set of beliefs that describes their Gods and his/her purpose for creating people.

God incarnating. A man meditating until he becomes enlightened. A God speaking to a man from a burning bush etc. From there the God/man, the enlightened one, or the one that God or an angel spoke to then tells us, the ordinary people, the things he learned or the things the Gods wants us to know.

These messages have never been consistent. Were we born in sin and need a savior? Can anyone, after several lifetimes, reach an enlightened state? Then there are the religions with a whole bunch of laws... the "shalls" and "shall nots"... Judaism, Islam and now the Baha'i Faith. The laws have never worked... except to get religious leaders to try and enforce them. But they themselves can't and don't live by them.

A "religious" person, that tries to obey the laws of their religion is a lot different than a "spiritual" person that let's love guide them. I haven't met many people in any organized religion that let's love be their guide and is truly trying to be kind, humble and selfless. They usually are just as worldly as anybody else, and they just go through the motions of being "religious" by going to their religious meetings or by talking about their beliefs as if they are really true and as if they themselves are really following them.

Or something like that... it's not too clear what's going on sometimes. But religions and religious beliefs sure can be weird, yet people believe them. And once a person joins a religion, they, too many times, have committed themselves into believing all of the things their religion teaches... as if it is absolutely true?

 

[Bird123]

Sorry, I do not believe in reincarnation, so I do not believe that we existed before we were conceived.
I believe that we are Spiritual Beings who live in physical bodies, so we have two natures, a spiritual nature and a physical nature.

Yes, I think judging and punishing is viable at a Higher Level, since that is God's System.

Your attitude is that of a petulant child who doesn't want to be punished for wrongdoing and you project that onto other people.
What you refer to as judging and punishing is justice, which is punishment for wrong actions that hurt others.
Judging and punishing is not payback or revenge. It is not you hurt me then I hurt you. It is justice for actions committed.

How do you think society is going to Fix the real problems, let thieves and rapists and murderers run loose on the streets, hoping thye will Discover the right way of living?
Once you eliminate justice systems all over the world, what would you be left with?
Do you ever bother to think, or do you just believe in your self-proclaimed religion called Discovery?

Since mankind has told you judgment and punishment is God's system, you believe them. Maybe, it's because you want payback and revenge for yourself and want God to do that for you.

What is the result of judgment and punishment? How is that working for mankind? Does crime go away? Until one fixes the problem, the problem never goes away.

Sure society and people will protect themselves. That is a given, however what does mankind do to Discover and Solve the underlying causes of crime? I see very little of that going on. If effort isn't being done to solve the problem, it does not go away. Adversity will, in time, lead one to solve the problem rather than the focus on payback and revenge in the name of justice. On the other hand, people value those petty things mankind hold so dear. It's going to take much time before they realize it does not bring the best results.

As far as living multiple physical lives, it really doesn't matter what anyone believes. There is far too much to learn in one physical lifetime and the time-based causal nature of this universe is needed for future lessons.

As far as me having a self-proclaimed religion, I have no religion. I do not ask for followers nor believers. There are no threats or punishments for ignoring what I say. I simply copy God by placing Truth in the world. Free choice!!! What everyone chooses to do with Truth is entirely up to them. Why does people not believing me not bother me? Everyone will Discover what I have been saying in time anyway.

Religion is a creation of mankind. God has no religion. I have no religion. Is religion really about God when religions reflect mankind more than anything else? On the other hand, religion is mankind's attempt to understand God. That is not a bad thing. Of course, instead of claiming to know so much, they need to realize they have a long way to go.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Bird123]

So now you speak for what God has done? On what authority? How do you think you know what God has done?

Yes, God does allow total free choices since God gave man free will to choose, and God does not intervene in our choices.
However, no society allows for total free choices with no consequences for the choices people make.

God does not teach. God sends Messengers to teach.

Do you have any idea how many times you have said the same things you just said during the last 5 years?
Do you thunk that by repeating it it is going to make any difference?

Society must have laws, control, and punishment, but that is not payback.
You live in a complete fantasy world that your created, believing that societies can exist without laws and punishments for breaking the law.
Of course there is good and evil in the world, that is a reality, but you live in a fantasy where everyone is the same.

Who said anything about hate? Punishment for wrong actions is not hate. It is deserved justice.

So let's just allow all the criminals to run free, so in time, they can Discover what will bring the best results.
The only thing they will Discover are more people to rape and murder.
How can you ever create a Heavenly state for yourself and others with this stuff?

Further, You might think that only religion teaches these things about justice, but nobody need a religion to realize that there must be both rewards and punishments in a world that has both good and evil.

This is good!! Your question: On what authority do I speak for what God has done?
My Answer: God hides nothing! All the secrets of the universe stare us all in the face. When you see and Understand what God is doing with this world, you will see and understand the system God has in place. Does one need authority to speak what is? No one is speaking for God no matter how much they might claim they do. Look for the knowledge that lives beyond the surface for there is always more to Discover.

As badly as you want it to be true, God is not sending messengers to control, intimidate, coerce or teach the choices of others. Does it really make sense to you? Should not God's real actions bring Results?? From your beliefs that you tell me, the results are poor. Are these really actions of High Intelligence? On the other hand, God's real actions and choices are bringing great results. Perhaps, it is not in your time frame.

Yes, I bet I do repeat a lot. Why? Truth is truth. I can not change Truth!!! What is is what is!! Perhaps a better course would be to look beyond the surface in order to fully understand what I am really pointing to. Example: Your quote: Who said anything about hate? My Answer: You really do not see or understand how those petty things mankind holds so dear generate and teach people to hate. Haven't you been hating and not really realizing it?

We against they, they are evil. Blame they for everything. Judge, condemn, punish, revenge, and payback all in the name of justice. It doesn't matter if anyone gets fixes. There must be justice. Hurt them back!!! Hurting from others generates anger, then hate is returned. Often those needing fixing do not realize they need fixing. The circle of petty things just generates more.

Unconditional Love always does what is best for the other. Is hurt and punishment best for the other? Is locking someone up and throwing away the key best for the other? Are any of the problems really being solved?? How many innocent people are punished in the name of payback, revenge and justice? Is this Unconditional Love?

We all have the power to Choose what we deem important. Yes, we must all be protected, however I choose fixing the people and the problems over revenge, hate, and payback all in the name of Justice.

Which is the Higher Level? Which is the Intelligent way? Which is God's real way? How many want God to create Hell in order to payback those that have hurt them?

Is there really good and evil? Maybe it's just a multilevel classroom of kiddies and different levels of understanding of what the best choices really are. There is no need to hate others learning through their free choices. Shouldn't Unconditional Love choose to lead everyone to understanding what the best choices really are? How would the world change if people valued Unconditional Love over the anger and hate of revenge and payback all in the name of justice?

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Bird123]

Rational theists and atheists know that God can never be found and that's why they don't go looking, hoping they'll bump into God.

Nobody will ever bump into God, not in this life or in the afterlife.

God highly values the things you consider petty.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

Rational theists and atheists? How do you deem one is rational over one who is not rational? How can you know all that they know? There might be method to their choices that do not seem rational to you.

People can choose to limit themselves for many reasons. If one says God can never be found, do they really want to find God at all? Clearly, they do not seek God. Through life how many choices are made that limit us? What would happen if one widened the view and was open to all possibilities?

Everyone will bump into God between physical lives. Everyone will know God's Unconditional Love that heals all hurt. It is an important part of the system that will happen. This is a good thing. I'm sure some will be surprised but that's OK.

If you think God values the petty things mankind holds so dear, I say that you do not know God at all. When one finally understands all sides of these petty things, the view will change. Intelligence will see what the Best choices really are.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Bird123]

Why do you never answer straight questions about the strange smell of what you're selling?


More patronizing condescension ─ which tells me you don't answer my questions because you can't.


But all you've placed out there is meaningless blather. And now you say that's because you don't offer anything to be believed. Why do you post all all? Just to troll?

Meaningless blather?? If it is meaningless why do you comment? Why do you come back? Perhaps, there is more meaning than you care to admit.

You are right!!!!! If you are merely looking for beliefs, I am not feeding Beliefs.
Why do I post? Simple. I place Truth in the world. Is that really so bad? I make no demands.

I do answer straight questions. You just do not like my answers. Truth will not always be an agreeable thing. Knowledge will not always be served up as one wants it.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Bird123]

Some of us have come to realize that there is a problem with "organized" religion. It has to have religious leaders and laws. It has to get people to believe in a particular set of beliefs that describes their Gods and his/her purpose for creating people.

God incarnating. A man meditating until he becomes enlightened. A God speaking to a man from a burning bush etc. From there the God/man, the enlightened one, or the one that God or an angel spoke to then tells us, the ordinary people, the things he learned or the things the Gods wants us to know.

These messages have never been consistent. Were we born in sin and need a savior? Can anyone, after several lifetimes, reach an enlightened state? Then there are the religions with a whole bunch of laws... the "shalls" and "shall nots"... Judaism, Islam and now the Baha'i Faith. The laws have never worked... except to get religious leaders to try and enforce them. But they themselves can't and don't live by them.

A "religious" person, that tries to obey the laws of their religion is a lot different than a "spiritual" person that let's love guide them. I haven't met many people in any organized religion that let's love be their guide and is truly trying to be kind, humble and selfless. They usually are just as worldly as anybody else, and they just go through the motions of being "religious" by going to their religious meetings or by talking about their beliefs as if they are really true and as if they themselves are really following them.

Or something like that... it's not too clear what's going on sometimes. But religions and religious beliefs sure can be weird, yet people believe them. And once a person joins a religion, they, too many times, have committed themselves into believing all of the things their religion teaches... as if it is absolutely true?

I have found no religion that actually understands God at all. I would say that if you are doing your best at Unconditional Love, you are probably ahead of them all.

Unconditional Love doesn't just give others everything they want. Unconditional Love always does what is Best for the other. It is not always an easy thing to do, however that is where the Best results will live.

Each must choose for themselves. It doesn't matter what everyone else does. It's what you choose to do that counts.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[blü 2]

Meaningless blather?? If it is meaningless why do you comment? Why do you come back? Perhaps, there is more meaning than you care to admit.

The record shows you offer virtually nothing factual.

I place Truth in the world.

An interesting cultural difference. I define truth as a quality of statements, and a statement is true to the extent that it corresponds with / accurately reflects objective reality.

You'll see that provides an objective test for truth, not just a nice fuzzy feeling.

What definition of 'truth' do you use, and what test does it provide to check whether any statement is true or not?

I do answer straight questions.

No you don't. You've never described a real God to me, such that if I encounter a real suspect I can determine whether it's God or not.

And I'm looking forward to hearing how you define 'truth' and what objective test it provides you.