What does God want from you?

[CG Didymus]

No, nobody knows for sure.

And that is the problem. Nobody knows for sure, yet people in some religions act as if what they believe is the Truth and is known for sure. And what happens? Even people in different religions, or even within the same religion, argue as if what they believe is the truth. Then add in Atheists, whose main point is that there is no proof that many religious beliefs are true, and all we have is back and forth arguing about who's right and who's wrong.

Now, as I've said many times, I understand that your beliefs and the beliefs of other people in other religions help them and seem like The Truth and is believed to be true... but they all can't be true. And maybe none of them are true. But, to work for the believer, they have to be believed as true. So thus, they have to argue as to why their beliefs are true and someone else's aren't.

 

[Gassim]

Very good. I have heard 'Since there is a universe, there is a God. QED'.
Orderly? Stars exploding, galaxies smashing into each other, black holes gobbling stars. You term that as orderly!
Glaciers melting, floods, heat, earthquakes, volcanoes, tsunamis, typhoons, tornadoes,. You term that as orderly!
But still 'Big Bang' is the reigning cosmological theory.
Have you calculated how many planets are there in the universe. 100 billion to 2 trillion galaxies. If they were of the size of Milky way galaxy, each would have 100 billion stars. Calculate how many planets. And Milky way is on the smaller side. Life for sure is not all that common. It is a chance that we are here. And we are not here for all the time.

Astrophysicist Hubert Reeve said: I don’t believe in chance and there is some kind of intelligence that exists in this universe. He also believes that nature currently has the advantage of creative intelligence, and it undoubtedly possesses a sharper intelligence than humans, and therefore there is a creative behind the design of this nature, especially since there is no such thing as chance. He says that he does not believe in chance. Rather he believes that some kind of intelligence exists in this universe, but what it is must be searched for.

 

[Trailblazer]

The universe is evidence of God.

It is evidence but not proof.

 

[RestlessSoul]

Very good. I have heard 'Since there is a universe, there is a God. QED'.
Orderly? Stars exploding, galaxies smashing into each other, black holes gobbling stars. You term that as orderly!
Glaciers melting, floods, heat, earthquakes, volcanoes, tsunamis, typhoons, tornadoes,. You term that as orderly!
But still 'Big Bang' is the reigning cosmological theory.
Have you calculated how many planets are there in the universe. 100 billion to 2 trillion galaxies. If they were of the size of Milky way galaxy, each would have 100 billion stars. Calculate how many planets. And Milky way is on the smaller side. Life for sure is not all that common. It is a chance that we are here. And we are not here for all the time.

Since all those dramatic natural events you are describing seem to unfold in accordance with precise universal laws, they are certainly evidence of order.

But the point is that the universe began in a state of low entropy - ie. a very ordered, or very improbable state.

“In the beginning was the Logos, and the Logos was with God”, as the writer of John’s Gospel has it.

 

[RestlessSoul]

It is evidence but not proof.

Surely

 

[blü 2]

When your heart, your mind, and your eyes are open, you will know.

So romance, not science, imagination not evidence, then?

 

[Aupmanyav]

Astrophysicist Hubert Reeve said: I don’t believe in chance ..

All are welcome to believe what they want. It is a free world.
Is Hubert Reeve a prophet or a messenger from God?
Kindly read Buddha's 'Kesamutti Sutta'.

Kesamutti Sutta - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Aupmanyav]

But the point is that the universe began in a state of low entropy - ie. a very ordered, or very improbable state.
“In the beginning was the Logos, and the Logos was with God”, as the writer of John’s Gospel has it.

We do not know how the universe began.
If you want to believe a Fourth Century compilation over science research, it is your wish.

 

[ppp]

But the point is that the universe began in a state of low entropy - ie. a very ordered, or very improbable state.

That is a false statement.

1. Low entropy does not mean "very ordered", nor does it mean "very improbable"
2. Low entropy does not mean "very ordered", nor does it mean "very improbable"
3. Low entropy does not mean "very ordered", nor does it mean "very improbable"

Low entropy means that there is a a relatively high percentage of energy available for work

 

[RestlessSoul]

That is a false statement.

1. Low entropy does not mean "very ordered", nor does it mean "very improbable"
2. Low entropy does not mean "very ordered", nor does it mean "very improbable"
3. Low entropy does not mean "very ordered", nor does it mean "very improbable"

Low entropy means that there is a a relatively high percentage of energy available for work

That’s one definition, but entropy is a more complex concept, with a wide array of definitions and implications. Please try to keep up at the back.

Disorder entropy, or Boltzmann entropy, is essentially a measure of the disorder assigned to a macro state, determined by the count of all possible microstates.

Entropy in quantum theory is defined precisely in terms of probability. Gibbs/Shannon entropy (see also Von Nueman entropy) is maximised when probability is spread out evenly among all states, and minimised when all the probability is accorded to a single state, with all others given zero probability.

 

[RestlessSoul]

We do not know how the universe began.
If you want to believe a Fourth Century compilation over science research, it is your wish.

I’m referring to the current standard model of cosmology, which suggests that the universe began in a highly ordered state, of uniform temperature and density. That this happens to be analogous with the opening verse of John’s Gospel (itself a reflection of the opening verse of Genesis) is perhaps just a happy coincidence, and one you can safely ignore if you wish - ignorance is bliss, after all.

On cosmological low entropy after the Big Bang: universal expansion and nucleosynthesis - General Relativity and Gravitation.

 

[Gassim]

Surely

God is an independent entity who is beyond our comprehension. How do we proof what our mind can’t comprehend. We even failed to understand why something came from nothing. Is there any proof?

 

[Gassim]

We do not know how the universe began.
If you want to believe a Fourth Century compilation over science research, it is your wish.

We don't know how the universe began but are enjoying beautiful life. The question is who started the clock? Those who believe in God the answer is God but unbelievers have no answer of this questions

 

[Aupmanyav]

I’m referring to the current standard model of cosmology, which suggests that the universe began in a highly ordered state, of uniform temperature and density. That this happens to be analogous with the opening verse of John’s Gospel (itself a reflection of the opening verse of Genesis) is perhaps just a happy coincidence, and one you can safely ignore if you wish - ignorance is bliss, after all.

On cosmological low entropy after the Big Bang: universal expansion and nucleosynthesis - General Relativity and Gravitation.

"By accepting optional cookies, you consent to the processing of your personal data - including transfers to third parties. Some third parties are outside of the European Economic Area, with varying standards of data protection. See our privacy policy for more information on the use of your personal data."

I would not say 'yes' to such a site.

John jumped the gun. We do not know how the universe began. Was it a plasma? Is plasma orderly? The sub-atomic particles were not there. Why not wait for more information to come in? Why jump to erroneous conclusions?

"In 1982, Paul Steinhardt presented the first model of eternal inflation, Vilenkin showed that eternal inflation is generic. Furthermore, working with Arvind Borde and Alan Guth, he developed the Borde–Guth–Vilenkin theorem, showing that a period of inflation must have a beginning and that a period of time must precede it. This represents a problem for the theory of inflation because, without a theory to explain conditions before inflation, it is not possible to determine how likely it is for inflation to have occurred."

Alexander Vilenkin - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

"According to the Hartle–Hawking proposal, the universe has no origin as we would understand it: before the Big Bang, which happened about 15 billion years ago, the universe was a singularity in both space and time. Hartle and Hawking suggest that if we could travel backwards in time towards the beginning of the universe, we would note that quite near what might have been the beginning, time gives way to space so that there is only space and no time."

Hartle–Hawking state - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

There is no God to want something from us.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Those who believe in God the answer is God but unbelievers have no answer of this questions

Yeah, for most 'Goddidit' is comfortable. Non-believers have many questions. We are comfortable with 'not knowing' and understand that knowing will take time. We do not jump to conclusions put forward by Neanderthals.

 

[ppp]

That’s one definition, but entropy is a more complex concept, with a wide array of definitions and implications. Please try to keep up at the back.

Disorder entropy, or Boltzmann entropy, is essentially a measure of the disorder assigned to a macro state, determined by the count of all possible microstates.

Entropy in quantum theory is defined precisely in terms of probability. Gibbs/Shannon entropy (see also Von Nueman entropy) is maximised when probability is spread out evenly among all states, and minimised when all the probability is accorded to a single state, with all others given zero probability.

But the point is that the universe began in a state of low entropy - ie. a very ordered, or very improbable state.

And based on that how did you determine improbability? Did you simply assume equal probability? How highly specific was the initial state, and how did you determine that?

The last one is the important question.

 

[Gassim]

Yeah, for most 'Goddidit' is comfortable. Non-believers have many questions. We are comfortable with 'not knowing' and understand that knowing will take time. We do not jump to conclusions put forward by Neanderthals.

We are also not jumping to conclusions. Big Bang begun as a tiny, dense, fireball that exploded but what caused this explosion in the first place is still a mystery. But how can universe of unintelligible matter produces objects with intrinsic ends, reproductive capabilities, and coded chemistry? There is a proverb says: if you miss something you can’t give ( for example, if I ask you to give me money and you don’t have you can’t give) so how can a lifeless matter gives life.

 

[CG Didymus]

We don't know how the universe began but are enjoying beautiful life. The question is who started the clock? Those who believe in God the answer is God but unbelievers have no answer of this questions

It began "beautiful" and then what happened? Thorns and thistles? Death and sin? Only because Adam and Eve listened to a talking serpent? And that fall effected, or infected, all of creation?

 

[Bird123]

All the research I had to do to determine that Baha'u'llah was a Messenger of God. After that, I believed the other Messengers He wrote about also came from God.

I discount it because God does not interact with humans. I do not know what is possible for God, I only know what God does not do.

I don't have to put any limits on God since God puts limits on Himself.

Justice is not payback. Justice is not hate or revenge. Revenge is payback, and Baha'is are told not to seek revenge.

“In His Tablets ‘Abdu’l-Bahá explains the difference between revenge and punishment. He affirms that individuals do not have the right to take revenge, that revenge is despised in the eyes of God, and that the motive for punishment is not vengeance, but the imposition of a penalty for the committed offence. In Some Answered Questions, He confirms that it is the right of society to impose punishments on criminals for the purpose of protecting its members and defending its existence.” The Kitáb-i-Aqdas, p. 203​

Unconditional Love does not fix any problems and in cases of hardened criminals it would only maters matters worse.
Time in prison might be painful and hurt, but the criminal should have thought of that before he murdered someone, causing their family pain and hurt.

Unconditional Love does no such thing. You live in a dream world.

Unconditional Love does no such thing. You live in a dream world.
Some people never learn, and if they do, it was not because of Unconditional Love.

So when the repeat offenders keep making the same choices to keep committing crimes those are the best choices.

Seeking justice is not about hate or hurting others.

You have no solution to the problems. Wisdom is not acquired by everyone on their journey, not by those who need it most.

Justice is not payback and revenge. Unconditional Love solves no problems. Understanding why people make bad choices does not lead them to make the best choices.

Then I wonder why people keep making the SAME choices.

Nobody needs to show God anything. God knows everything.

Can't you read? I have said this dozens of times. I am not condemning anyone since that is not my job. That is for courts of law.
I have not broken the law so my choices are not hurting anyone so they are not condemned.

Don't you see? Unconditional Love will never bring the best results regardless of the excuses one comes up with in order to justify it .
Justice does not need to be justified to you. You don't write the laws and thank God for that!

Can't you read and understand anything? Are you dense or are you so mired in your beliefs that you cannot understand the difference between justice and payback/revenge?

So now, it's God limiting Himself?? Give me a break. Why would God limit Himself so that your Beliefs fit?

So your messengers deem it ok to punish in the name of justice. What purpose does punishment serve? Payback? You can't have it both ways. Your punishment is an attempt to alter the actions of others through pain. The pain inflicted has nothing to do with the choice or the action of the person at hand. The thought is if I hurt them bad enough they will not do it again. It is an attempt to intimidate and manipulate the actions of another. It is using, valuing, and teaching the petty things mankind holds so dear. How is that working? How is that solving the real problems? Frustrated, are you saying some can't be fixed? Sometimes in order to fix the Real Problems one must first change oneself.

Clearly, you do not really understand Unconditional Love. Seems it will take many lifetimes and many lessons before you do. You clutch onto so many of the petty things mankind holds so dear and I don't think you even realize this. Worry not. God will walk you there regardless of how helpless you think God is.

So how is mankind really doing with crime? Focusing on punishment, payback, hurting, manipulating and attempting to coerce the actions of others, nothing is being fixed. What has mankind done to Discover the underlying causes of crime? Nothing. What has mankind done to teach and place truth in the lives of criminals that will lead to Understanding what the best choices really are? Nothing. It's nothing but punishment, payback and hurt which teaches and returns the same. Lock someone away and throwing the key away is not the answer. Problems never go away until they are fixed.

Is it easier to discard people as not fixable? If you do isn't it easier to hate and label them as evil? Isn't that really why religions have created Hell to send those they can not control or manipulate? Why would you think God is so helpless to have to discard rather than fix?

I have fixed countless number of not fixable people over the years. Many who were given up on over the years because others felt the same as you, not fixable. All one must do is move a grain of sand at at time and keep placing Real Truth in their lives. When one understands all sides, Intelligence will make the best choices regardless of any bad choices that were made in the past. Discarding others is not Unconditional Love. It is not a Higher Level!!

Is it easier to do nothing, accept and believe? I bet it is. On the other hand, look at the Results.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Bird123]

And here's another NT quote about love...

NIV 1 John 4:20​

Whoever claims to love God yet hates a brother or sister is a liar. For whoever does not love their brother and sister, whom they have seen, cannot love God, whom they have not seen.​

​

NIV Matthew 5:43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor[a] and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.​

And here's another Baha'i quote about love...

The Baha’i Faith aims to bring about the unity of all people – which, as Abdu’l-Baha said, can only happen through the power of love:​

​

This strong connection between love and deeds means that love of any kind – whether it is for our parents, family, country, friend, and spouse – should lead us to action. Simply saying, “I love you,” is never enough.​

​

But I do believe that because Baha'is, Christians and others can't and don't really show love, it gives those of us that question "organized" religions another reason not to believe in them.​

Yes, I have noticed people who label others as Evil claim they do not hate. They have been taught by religion that We are good and they are Evil. People have been taught to hate and do not even realize they are hating.

We are all Children of God. Like you said. Love must include all God's children regardless of their choices or actions. On the other hand, for those making bad choices, one can place Truth and the Understanding of the results of bad choices in their lives with Unconditional Love and Kindness. Sometimes a few simple words with Unconditional Love and Kindness can change lives for generations. Somehow, I think you have done this in the past and not even realized this.

Clearly, God is in everything. Teaching Love is in most every holy book yet goodness is not all that holy books teach. One does have the power to Choose!! Those deep seeded into religion can choose to teach the God parts of Unconditional Love and Kindness rather than the mankind parts. This can return goodness to oneself for it doesn't matter what one believes. It's those choices and actions that determine it all.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!