What does it mean to be paid "what your worth"?

[EconGuy]

So this question usually comes up when discussing minimum wage. When people advocating increasing the wage some would argue that increasing the wage results in people being paid more than their worth.

So, my question to those who believe that minimum wages can result in paying people more than their worth, can you enlighten me, how is the value of a persons work determined?

I suspect the answer some might offer is that is that the market determines the value value of work.

IMO that's problematic, but I'm curious what my fellow posters think.

 

[Subduction Zone]

That is so hard to say. The problem with minimum wage laws is that they have to be very general. For the average person, no disabilities, it can be argued that one should be forced to pay a minimal amount. If one cannot do that then one either does not really need the workers or one cannot afford them. That is the business's fault.

But there are special needs people that want to work, but cannot produce at a profitable rate. I can see exceptions being made for them, but those employers also need to be monitored more closely to make sure that they are not abusing these special needs people.

One needs both basic rules and ways to get around them when there is a good reason to.

 

[sun rise]

The word "worth" is tricky. Worth as a human being with basic human rights? Worth as a piece of living economic machinery in a capitalist system?

My personal view is that every human has certain rights including the right to a living wage. Someone who works hard and is careful with money should be able to live a decent life with their real needs satisfied.

 

[Subduction Zone]

The word "worth" is tricky. Worth as a human being with basic human rights? Worth as a piece of living economic machinery in a capitalist system?

My personal view is that every human has certain rights including the right to a living wage. Someone who works hard and is careful with money should be able to live a decent life with their real needs satisfied.

I agree, but who is going to pay it? Special needs people could get a combination of both money that they earned from a business and state money. I have seen too many programs where it is all or nothing. And the "all government support" is still insufficient and the ability to earn money just does not exist.

I know it is more bother but we need to find a way to help those that need help, but still want to work

 

[vulcanlogician]

IDK about you, but I can do some valuable things with an hour of my life. It doesn't matter what the work is. There is a minimum value to someone saying "you are going to be doing THIS" instead of living my life as I want to live it. The real question is not about the labor in question (at least not when talking about a minimum wage). It is a question about what we will tolerate being paid to use the precious hours working toward someone else's goals.

 

[Subduction Zone]

One more point about people with no disabilities. There will always be some that are desperate to work for some reason or other. They are vulnerable to abuse at that point. There will always be some businesses that will willingly abuse those people. Minimum wage laws are designed to try to minimize that abuse. The problem with no minimum wage laws is that during hard times there can be a race to the bottom. That can actually harm a society.

 

[EconGuy]

If the phrase, "you should be paid what your worth" has any meaning at all, shouldn't someone be able to tell us how one determines the value of work?

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

So this question usually comes up when discussing minimum wage. When people advocating increasing the wage some would argue that increasing the wage results in people being paid more than their worth.

So, my question to those who believe that minimum wages can result in paying people more than their worth, can you enlighten me, how is the value of a persons work determined?

There's a number of factors, really. But I think people underestimate one's ability to "market themselves" and "negotiate" in determining their worth.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

Also, I have heard of businesses being able to guesstimate how much the "average employee" could bring in, using a bunch of numbers. Online, I have heard about a supermarket that has numbers saying each employee brings in an average of $130,000 for the store each year. Yet each employee probably only makes about $25,000 a year on average. Getting more than that, and a bit closer to that $130,000, would probably require either special conditions, or finding ways to market yourself as being worth more.

 

[sun rise]

If the phrase, "you should be paid what your worth" has any meaning at all, shouldn't someone be able to tell us how one determines the value of work?

That can be tricky in some cases. For example a google search turned up this:

For example, Insure.com figures the wage a mom should earn for the 18 or so jobs she must tackle throughout the day is $126,725 in 2022, which is 9.2% higher than the 2021 report's findings of $116,022. And according to Salary.com's most recent Annual Mom Salary Survey, moms should be paid even more — $184,820.May 14, 2023

 

[Subduction Zone]

Also, I have heard of businesses being able to guesstimate how much the "average employee" could bring in, using a bunch of numbers. Online, I have heard about a supermarket that has numbers saying each employee brings in an average of $130,000 for the store each year. Yet each employee probably only makes about $25,000 a year on average. Getting more than that, and a bit closer to that $130,000, would probably require either special conditions, or finding ways to market yourself as being worth more.

And "brings in" is a phrase that many will not understand. That is not $130,000 in profit. That would be in sales. The average mark up at a supermarket is 10 to 20%. At the low end of only a 10% markup that employee would not be paying for himself. At the high end he would barely be paying for himself. That figure may for what an average employee "brings in" may be a bit low. When one considers rents and taxes and that various sources say markup averages 15%

Now I am not sure. I have been looking around and have been finding conflicting figures. The figures that I have found for mark up does not match what I have found for what employees bring in. Either the amount claimed to have been brought in is too low. Or the markup that stores use is higher than stories report. Frankly a 20% markup seems to be very low to me. For a lot of businesses markup is 50% of the cost of a product that one buys. For a industries such as restaurants food and products cost are less than 30% of your bill.

 

[EconGuy]

That can be tricky in some cases. For example a google search turned up this:

For example, Insure.com figures the wage a mom should earn for the 18 or so jobs she must tackle throughout the day is $126,725 in 2022, which is 9.2% higher than the 2021 report's findings of $116,022. And according to Salary.com's most recent Annual Mom Salary Survey, moms should be paid even more — $184,820.May 14, 2023

First, being a mom isn't a job, it's work, but not a job. That said the Google insight is interesting.

But no one is answering the question.

For those that rhino you are paid what your worth. How is worth in that context determined?

 

[Heyo]

I suspect the answer some might offer is that is that the market determines the value value of work.

IMO that's problematic, but I'm curious what my fellow posters think.

Basically, it is the market. But the market value of certain work can be skewed by a number of factors. In the end, what one is willing to pay, is totally arbitrary.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

And "brings in" is a phrase that many will not understand. That is not $130,000 in profit. That would be in sales. The average mark up at a supermarket is 10 to 20%. At the low end of only a 10% markup that employee would not be paying for himself. At the high end he would barely be paying for himself. That figure may for what an average employee "brings in" may be a bit low. When one considers rents and taxes and that various sources say markup averages 15%

Now I am not sure. I have been looking around and have been finding conflicting figures. The figures that I have found for mark up does not match what I have found for what employees bring in. Either the amount claimed to have been brought in is too low. Or the markup that stores use is higher than stories report. Frankly a 20% markup seems to be very low to me. For a lot of businesses markup is 50% of the cost of a product that one buys. For a industries such as restaurants food and products cost are less than 30% of your bill.

You are probably correct that the actual profit would probably be under $130,000. I imagine so too.

I worked for a grocery store once. The grocery store, from what I learned, is a business that is very much about making pennies on the dollar in one area, to make up for it selling something else at a large margin. So the store I worked for would create "attractions" sometimes that generated a lot of profit, then during these attractions, not care much about making a large profit on all of their common goods. And honestly, I don't have all the numbers, but I've heard that a lot of cash was raked in that way.

The business mindset I saw, was that the bosses didn't even care if they lost some money on some parts of the store, if it could bring money on the items and services that were hugely, or even massively, marked up.

 

[sun rise]

Basically, it is the market. But the market value of certain work can be skewed by a number of factors. In the end, what one is willing to pay, is totally arbitrary.

It's skewed by the power that some have to be paid based on their power which is illustrated by the skyrocketing CEO salaries while the middle class disappears and more sink into poverty.

That's where unions come in - to force more of a balance of power when it comes to pay.

 

[vulcanlogician]

But no one is answering the question.

For those that rhino you are paid what your worth. How is worth in that context determined?

Could you state the question that no one is answering more clearly?

I don't know what "rhino" means as you are using it. I'm a gen-x dude who doesn't know what rhino means in this context.

Can you restate your question as plainly as possible please?

 

[Heyo]

It's skewed by the power that some have to be paid based on their power which is illustrated by the skyrocketing CEO salaries while the middle class disappears and more sink into poverty.

That's where unions come in - to force more of a balance of power when it comes to pay.

If you have unions.

 

[Subduction Zone]

You are probably correct that the actual profit would probably be under $130,000. I imagine so too.

I worked for a grocery store once. The grocery store, from what I learned, is a business that is very much about making pennies on the dollar in one area, to make up for it selling something else at a large margin. So the store I worked for would create "attractions" sometimes that generated a lot of profit, then during these attractions, not care much about making a large profit on all of their common goods. And honestly, I don't have all the numbers, but I've heard that a lot of cash was raked in that way.

The business mindset I saw, was that the bosses didn't even care if they lost some money on some parts of the store, if it could bring money on the items and services that were hugely, or even massively, marked up.

Grocery stores are likely to have been the first business that used a "Loss leader". That is a product that you lose money on every time someone buys it. But the idea is that once people are in the store they will buy more than just that one product.

The concept works in some businesses but not in others. Bars at happy hour may have very cheap food. But they make it up in drinks.

 

[Audie]

I mostly do expensive things

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

For those that rhino you are paid what your worth. How is worth in that context determined?

Experience
Education
Position worked
How much you were paid at previous jobs
Ability to market one's self and negotiation skills
Ability to socialize
Ability to grasp concepts
Intelligence
Emotional intelligence
Whether you have a skill others don't or know some machine others can't operate (that can sometimes factor into raises, I think)
Etc.

So yeah, I'm going out on a limb and taking the stance there are criteria.