What Does the Cross Mean to You?

[loverofhumanity]

You refute what each and every religion considers as sacrosanct. You find Bahaullahs description of the visit of Maid of Heaven in Siyah Chal as science or reason?

Yes according to the science of the love of God it is very scientific. But it is metaphorical of an experience which cannot be adequately described like the Dove descended on Jesus or the Buddha experience ‘Enlightenment ’ under the Bodhi Tree or Muhammad in the Cave and Angel Gabriel. These are all outward descriptions of inner spiritual experiences.

Science is of two kinds material and spiritual - both are sciences. One leads to the discovery of material realities and the other discovers spiritual truths. They are like wings of a bird. We need both to fly.

Scientific knowledge is the highest attainment upon the human plane, for science is the discoverer of realities. It is of two kinds: material and spiritual. Material science is the investigation of natural phenomena; divine science is the discovery and realization of spiritual verities. The world of humanity must acquire both. A bird has two wings; it cannot fly with one. (Abdul-Baha)

 

[Aupmanyav]

In case of Buddha it is very simple. Enlightenment means understanding. You do not require divine help to understand. You already have a brain capable of thinking, if you want to use it. In Hinduism, it is known as 'jnana' (knowledge) or 'nirvana', 'moksha' or 'mukti'. All these words mean deliverance from ignorance (ajnana, jahiliyat). Spirituality is not a science, it is knowledge and understanding. Bahaullah and Abdul Baha were flying with one wing, they did not have any knowledge of science. That is why they wrote superstitious things which were important only to people in 7th Century.

 

[Vinayaka]

The cross means nothing to me spiritually. But as a war memorial like in Flanders Fields or a symbol of Canada's Remembrance Day, it give me cause for reflection on millions who died, including some of my own relatives.

 

[Vinayaka]

Yes according to the science of the love of God it is very scientific. But it is metaphorical of an experience which cannot be adequately described like the Dove descended on Jesus or the Buddha experience ‘Enlightenment ’ under the Bodhi Tree or Muhammad in the Cave and Angel Gabriel. These are all outward descriptions of inner spiritual experiences.

Science is of two kinds material and spiritual - both are sciences. One leads to the discovery of material realities and the other discovers spiritual truths. They are like wings of a bird. We need both to fly.

Scientific knowledge is the highest attainment upon the human plane, for science is the discoverer of realities. It is of two kinds: material and spiritual. Material science is the investigation of natural phenomena; divine science is the discovery and realization of spiritual verities. The world of humanity must acquire both. A bird has two wings; it cannot fly with one. (Abdul-Baha)

I honestly don't believe you know what science is.

 

[loverofhumanity]

In case of Buddha it is very simple. Enlightenment means understanding. You do not require divine help to understand. You already have a brain capable of thinking, if you want to use it. In Hinduism, it is known as 'jnana' (knowledge) or 'nirvana', 'moksha' or 'mukti'. All these words mean deliverance from ignorance (ajnana, jahiliyat). Spirituality is not a science, it is knowledge and understanding. Bahaullah and Abdul Baha were flying with one wing, they did not have any knowledge of science. That is why they wrote superstitious things which were important only to people in 7th Century.

I will agree that the age we live in is based on materialism and that most are ignorant of the Divine sciences even denying their existence. But we are not our body which even still science does not understand fully so when we enter into things like consciousness and spirituality they cannot be measured by materialistic sciences.

Again, we are not our bodies, there is a spiritual existence within us that makes us who we are not made of any earthly substance and that receives nourishment from the Word of God.

Your body is not you. Who you are is an entirely different entity that is capable of many things the body is not.

In this age of course the mystical and what is not understood fully many won’t admit as being scientific but that doesn’t mean it is not or that as society becomes more in tune with its inner nature that many divine sciences will not be born.

Just saying spiritual things are not a science does not make it so.

It’s just your opinion which you are entitled to and I respect that but I believe the Manifestations and Avatars had full knowledge of these spiritual sciences and have attempted to teach them to us but our materialistic crude outlook on these things has made us closed minded to their reality.

 

[JJ50]

Without your body you don't exist, imo.

 

[loverofhumanity]

I honestly don't believe you know what science is.

I’m just a tiny ant with very limited understanding and finite knowledge.

 

[SalixIncendium]

A cross with the horizontal arms offset toward the top of the vertical arms, for me, is and identifier of Christianity, whereas and equal arm cross is commonly used in Neo-Paganism to represent the four cardinal directions, so I see it as an identifier of, well, Neo-Paganism.

 

[Aupmanyav]

I’m just a tiny ant with very limited understanding and finite knowledge.

Not knowing is not a problem. Refusing to learn is the problem.

.. most are ignorant of the Divine sciences even denying their existence. But we are not our body which even still science does not understand fully so when we enter into things like consciousness and spirituality they cannot be measured by materialistic sciences.

In this age of course the mystical and what is not understood fully ..

It’s just your opinion which you are entitled to and I respect that but I believe the Manifestations and Avatars had full knowledge of these spiritual sciences and have attempted to teach them to us but our materialistic crude outlook on these things has made us closed minded to their reality.

Dont mix the two things. The first is a superstition, the second is verifiable. You are your body. When that machine stops functioning, then you are just a nonperforming bundle of molecules, which in time will dissipate into the environment (Hindus quickly with a funeral, Abrahamics slowly over Centuries). Read Consciousness - Wikipedia to know how far we have gone in understanding Consciousness.

Words of any God have never nourished anyone. You need food. The mystical has been created only to mystify people. Saying 'Goddidit' in no way helps to enlarge our understanding. The crude materialistic attitude does not accept 'Cthulhus'.

 

[Vinayaka]

Not knowing is not a problem. Refusing to learn is the problem.

Yes indeed. When you believe things such as copper will change to gold over time, and insist that that is science, yes, Fort Knox we have a problem.

 

[paarsurrey]

Yes indeed. When you believe things such as copper will change to gold over time, and insist that that is science, yes, Fort Knox we have a problem.

"When you believe things such as copper will change to gold over time, and insist that that is science, yes,"
that points to the fallibility of Bahaullah. Right, please?

Regards

 

[LuisDantas]

To me, the Christian cross is a reminder of Christianity itself.

For whatever reasons, it does not really bring other meanings to my mind. If I am conscious enough I may remind myself that it is supposed to remind believers of the acceptance of necessary sacrifice.

It may have to do with my doubting that there ever was a historical Jesus.

 

[Trailblazer]

Yes indeed. When you believe things such as copper will change to gold over time, and insist that that is science, yes, Fort Knox we have a problem.

Who ever said that and insisted it was science?

 

[Trailblazer]

"When you believe things such as copper will change to gold over time, and insist that that is science, yes,"
that points to the fallibility of Bahaullah. Right, please?

Regards

No, not really, because nobody has ever proven that it won't.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Who ever said that and insisted it was science?

Well the 'Maid of Heaven' and what she said.
Maid of Heaven - Wikipedia
You believe that?

 

[Trailblazer]

Well the 'Maid of Heaven' and what she said.
Maid of Heaven - Wikipedia
You believe that?

Yes, I believe that the Most Great Spirit came to Baha'u'llah but I did not see anything about science in that article.

 

[Vinayaka]

"When you believe things such as copper will change to gold over time, and insist that that is science, yes,"
that points to the fallibility of Bahaullah. Right, please?

Regards

Yes, obviously. But non-Baha'i already know that.

 

[PruePhillip]

Without your body you don't exist, imo.

How do you know?
Ever talk to anyone who has had a Near Death Experience?
or who has studied the cross-over from a scientific POV?
I did enjoy watching What happens when you die by Peter Fenwick - he's
probably an atheist but also a neuroscientist and psychologist who
might have penned the term NDE. Kind of scary video.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Yes, I believe that the Most Great Spirit came to Baha'u'llah but I did not see anything about science in that article.

Oh! You are one of those who can see Emperor's new clothes. Wonderful. It does not concern science, it is about common-sense.

How do you know? Ever talk to anyone who has had a Near Death Experience? Or who has studied the cross-over from a scientific POV? I did enjoy watching What happens when you die by Peter Fenwick - he's probably an atheist but also a neuroscientist and psychologist who might have penned the term NDE. Kind of scary video.

Near-death experience - Wikipedia

 

[Vinayaka]

Oh! You are one of those who can see Emperor's new clothes. Wonderful. It does not concern science, it is about common-sense.

Metallurgy is most definitely a branch of science. Transforming one element to another element is nigh impossible let alone being something that happens naturally over the precise period of 70 years by hiding it somewhere. Let's face it, it's so nonsensical that very few people would even discuss it.