What does the fossil record say?

[Bereanz]

Funny that not even one South African earth scientist ever has proposed that. They 're actually the people studying those rocks! Have you ever seen a Karoo Supergroup rock, seeing that you think you know it all?

3800 "scientists" are trying to disprove what the evidence clealry points to and they have failed to do so. I've heard the band Supertramp Rock! Yes I'm that ancient. Ive never been a big fan of Supergroups but the traveling Willburies weren't too bad!

 

[chinu]

What does the fossil record say

" O man listen, see these fossils and always remember that, surely you also have die one day."

" O man listen, see these fossils and always remember that, one who has took birth on this earth, have to be fossil one day."

" O man listen, see these fossils and always remember that, Don't love this body more than necessary, eat so much, sleep so much, decorate it, missuse it, but you should work hard and try to understand why you got this body, for what? as have to leave it one day, because it is the part of fossils."

_/\_
Chinu

 

[Bereanz]

" O man listen, see these fossils and always remember that, surely you also have die one day."

" O man listen, see these fossils and always remember that, one who has took birth on this earth, have to be fossil one day."

" O man listen, see these fossils and always remember that, Don't love this body more than necessary, eat so much, sleep so much, decorate it, missuse it, but you should work hard and try to understand why you got this body, for what? as have to leave it one day, because it is the part of fossils."

_/\_
Chinu

The most sense Ive seen anybody make in here so far. May I add, Oh man look at these fossils and dont spend too much time in the EVC forums if you value your sanity.

 

[Looncall]

Oh, I’d love to address that. I did my thesis on parts of the Karoo Supergroup and I’m still working on those areas. That’s my area of expertise.
Strata in the Main Karoo Basin, consisting of mostly glacial formations at the bottom, followed by coal seams amongst sandstones, shales and mudstones, followed by sandstone, shales and mustones, followed by Aeolian deposits, followed by interbedded aeolian and basaltic deposits in the upper parts. It records an almost continuous sequence of marine glacial to terrestrial deposition from the Late Carbonifeous to the Early Jurassic, a period of about a hundred million years. The Supergroup is up to 8 km thick in places. The coal seams occur in the Ecca Group (the second lowest group of strata), which dates to the middle Permian period.

The number of 800 000 fossils was given by someone who found a number of fossils at a spot, multiplied that number by the area of the Main Karoo Basin and declared 800 000 fossils in the Karoo. The aerial extent of the main basin of the Karoo Supergroup is around 50% of the surface of the country (thus Main Karoo Basin area is around 610 518.5 square kilometers, depending on how you model the Karoo Sequence underneath Quaternary and Tertiary deposits). The number of fossils is looked at with great questions surrounding it, for a variety of reasons, one of them is that because we simply don’t know how many fossils there are, seeing that we don’t know exactly know how many fossils we have underground. Another one is that, from the fossils we find, only a small percentage is found in “fossil graveyards”. Most of them are found as lonely fossils dispersed amongst the rocks. We also have an excellent record of transitional fossils in the Karoo Sequence, from reptile to mammals. Fossils we find in the upper parts of the Permian, are reptiles. No mammals there. Some fossils show transitional features in rocks from the late Permian to very early Triassic. Then we find mammals in the Triassic. A great sequence of transitional fossils. Not buried in “fossil graveyards” at all, but dispersed randomly in a definite sequence in the strata from bottom to top.

Can I answer? I’ve been working on strata in the Karoo Supergroup for more than 20 years? There’s no evidence for a large, big, fossil bone yard in the Karoo Supergroup. Fossils appear to be dispersed in the Supergroup, with fossils also found in aeolian deposits. A great source for information: The Stratigraphy of South Africa, Handbook 8, part 1, Lithostratigraphy of the Republic of South Africa, South West Africa/Namibia and the Republics of Bophuthatswana, Transkei and Venda; published by the Geological Survey of South Africa, in 1980. All the information you need to start a basic study of the Karoo fossils!

Many thanks for this fascinating post. It's a refreshing change from the brain-dead fanatical ranting we've been having to put up with.

 

[painted wolf]

Krok- You've gotten to work in the Karoo? I am so jealous! :jiggy:

Do you know any good resources showing the fauna of the Karoo in any detail? I've been wanting to do reconstructions of the critters, but fining good images and info to work from can be a headache.

wa:do

 

[camanintx]

The FACT that design is evident, is enough to indicate a designer.

Design can only be evident if it is compared to something that isn't designed, but since you believe that everything in existence is designed, that would be a problem for you, wouldn't it?

 

[chinu]

The most sense Ive seen anybody make in here so far. May I add, Oh man look at these fossils and dont spend too much time in the EVC forums if you value your sanity.

Bereanz, thank you so much for remembering me this.
Oh "God" please help chinu to overcome this bad habit.

Bereanz, very nice to meet you,

Your small bother _/\_ Chinu.

 

[wilsoncole]

Thanks. This is what I was pointing out. This was something understood by many cultures before, during and after the text of the bible.

False! Furnish the proof.

Basically the writer took what was observable and attributed to his god. He explains a phenomenon of the natural world that was observable. Sumerians, Egyptians, Chinese as well as Hindus had already possessed such knowledge.

You are totally wrong about this.
I did an in-depth check on the subject and can find nothing earlier than the 4th century (Plato, Aristotle) that referred to the water cycle.
You have not been able to corroborate your claims that Sumerians, Egyptians, Chinese or Hindus knew or wrote anything about the world's water cycle earlier than the 4th century B.C.E. The Bible's text goes back to the 14th century B.C.E.
You cannot prove that Solomon obtained that knowledge from any pagan nation. He wrote about it in the 11th century B.C.E. preceding anyone else by hundreds of years.
He got that knowledge from his God.

So, now I await your proof.


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>(^)<

Wilson

 

[wilsoncole]

Design can only be evident if it is compared to something that isn't designed, but since you believe that everything in existence is designed, that would be a problem for you, wouldn't it?

No!
Design entails purpose.
There is no design here in this overall picture!

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Wilson

 

[ImmortalFlame]

No!
Design entails purpose.
There is no design here in this overall picture!

The million dollar question is: How do you quantify "design"?

Keep in mind that complexity does not equal design.

 

[waitasec]

No!
Design entails purpose.
There is no design here in this overall picture!

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Wilson

according to you a tornado was designed...
the destruction is the purpose....

 

[wilsoncole]

The million dollar question is: How do you quantify "design"?

Keep in mind that complexity does not equal design.

Keep in mind: PURPOSE!
What causes complexity?
What purpose does complexity serve?
Can purpose be detected and explained in co-ordinated relationships?
Science lends itself to such extended investigations. Although drawing wrong conclusions, Neo-Darwinism has done so to a very great degree, even including industrial melanism.
If complexity lends itself to purpose, then design becomes obvious.

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Wilson

 

[wilsoncole]

according to you a tornado was designed...
the destruction is the purpose....

According to me?
Please provide printed background information (i.e. a quote from me).
Besides, do you see a tornado here?


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Wilson

 

[camanintx]

No!
Design entails purpose.

But purpose does not require design.

Still, that doesn't address my previous point. If you believe that everything is designed by God, then there is nothing that is not designed to compare it against, so how can you say when design is apparent?

 

[Dirty Penguin]

If complexity lends itself to purpose, then design becomes obvious.
Wilson

Wrong again. Behe tried this already and he was debunked. Simply observing nature and arriving at a personal conclusion that (it looks to be designed) is not a valid scientific argument. It is a faith based claim that, at the moment, can not be tested.

 

[waitasec]

According to me?
Please provide printed background information (i.e. a quote from me).
Besides, do you see a tornado here?


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Wilson

post #2089

are you unaware that this photo is of the aftermath of a tornado?
you do know what a tornado is and does... don't you?
tornado's are a natural phenomenon and according to you these natural occurrences are designed...

please do catch up....

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Keep in mind: PURPOSE!

And how do you quantify purpose?

For example, during my teenage years I spent a lot of time writing and drawing on my arms. Does that mean that the purpose of my arms is to be drawn on?

What causes complexity?

Lots of things.

What purpose does complexity serve?

Complexity is a largely arbitrary distinction made by humans to differentiate between things that are easily understood and things which are not as easily understood, or things that involve few processes from things which involve many processes.

Can purpose be detected and explained in co-ordinated relationships?

Depends on the definition of "purpose".

Science lends itself to such extended investigations. Although drawing wrong conclusions, Neo-Darwinism has done so to a very great degree, even including industrial melanism.

So, what are the right conclusions and how do you reach them, using science?

If complexity lends itself to purpose, then design becomes obvious.

There's a gap in your logic.

Something is complex + lends itself to a purpose = ________________, therefore design is obvious.

No, it's not obvious. If it were obvious, you wouldn't have so many atheists, let alone so many religious people who claim to rely entirely on faith for their beliefs.

 

[painted wolf]

I use a particular rock as a door prop in the summer... did god design my rock for this purpose?

Tornadoes are very organized weather systems, so well organized we still don't fully understand how they form and work.... are they intelligently designed?

wa:do

 

[wilsoncole]

Wrong again. Behe tried this already and he was debunked.

Sir, Please don't tell me anything about Behe. You're not talking to him.
If you tell me about Behe, I will tell you about Jesus. Do you think you can debunk him, too?

And you are only attempting to duck the issue; so I raise it again:

Originally Posted by wilsoncole
If complexity lends itself to purpose, then design becomes obvious.

The cell is incredibly complex. What is its purpose? Do you think you can handle that?

Simply observing nature and arriving at a personal conclusion that (it looks to be designed) is not a valid scientific argument. It is a faith based claim that, at the moment, can not be tested.

"Faith-based." That's how you manage to avoid debating Behe. If you guys would debate Behe on the biology alone, he would tear you apart.
But..............
Try addressing that issue instead of hiding behind cliches with worn-out handles.


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Wilson

 

[wilsoncole]

post #2089

I asked you for a quote from me claiming that everything is designed. You have failed to provide one, so your charge is a lie.
Besides, if everything is designed, chaos would be non-existent.

are you unaware that this photo is of the aftermath of a tornado?

That is your own opinion. I have seen scenes like this after the rampage of a disgruntled man in a military tank, and, following a hurricane and an earthquake.

you do know what a tornado is and does... don't you?

You cannot show me one in that picture. So what happens when they occur in uninhabited places?

tornado's are a natural phenomenon and according to you these natural occurrences are designed...

Show me where I said that. This amounts to another accusation and a lie - your favorite trademark.
I said there is no design in that picture. You want to discuss tornadoes.
Do try to stay with the point being discussed.
Why do you have to resort to such deviousness?
Maybe its because you can't tell right from wrong.



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Wilson