What does the fossil record say?

[Krok]

Oh dear

:sorry1: How about addressing the post?

 

[Bereanz]

:sorry1: How about addressing the post?

You would love to be a martyr, won’t you? You'd propably love the pain involved. Why don't you just do S&M, it's very painfull and you survive, too! Way better that dying in the process.

With remarks like this I addressed it in the only way it deserved. I mean come on pal, are you on crack or what?

 

[Bereanz]

The fossil record is generally used by those of the Evolutionist Religious faith in a vain and laughable attempt to prove evolution from species to species, when, in actual FACT the fossil record PROVES nothing of the sort. To say it does is a blatant bald face lie and a deceptive conspiracy theory of epic proportion. Thanks to the hollywood brain washing factory and the worlds media and the worlds museaums and eduction "brian washing" system, it is accepted as fact and believed by billions to be true, including even professing "Christians".

If the mass fossil graveyards around the world come close to PROVING anything, it is that the Biblical record of a world wide deluge that covered the entire planet, is most likely true. How else do you explain a mass conglomerated fossil grave yard of over 500 million, that's right, 500 million mammoths in one place OTHER THAN a mass attempted escape from an all to apparent dissasterous flood? Because the reality (IE FACT) is they are where discovered to be entombed in a glacier.

(CORECTION 5 Million - SORRY MY BAD - GET OVER IT AND MOVE ON) OR BUILD A BRIDGE AND JUMP OFF IT

 

[Krok]

How do you explain 800,000 million skeltons of vertebrate animals entombed together in the Karoo formations?

Oh, I’d love to address that. I did my thesis on parts of the Karoo Supergroup and I’m still working on those areas. That’s my area of expertise.
Strata in the Main Karoo Basin, consisting of mostly glacial formations at the bottom, followed by coal seams amongst sandstones, shales and mudstones, followed by sandstone, shales and mustones, followed by Aeolian deposits, followed by interbedded aeolian and basaltic deposits in the upper parts. It records an almost continuous sequence of marine glacial to terrestrial deposition from the Late Carbonifeous to the Early Jurassic, a period of about a hundred million years. The Supergroup is up to 8 km thick in places. The coal seams occur in the Ecca Group (the second lowest group of strata), which dates to the middle Permian period.

The number of 800 000 fossils was given by someone who found a number of fossils at a spot, multiplied that number by the area of the Main Karoo Basin and declared 800 000 fossils in the Karoo. The aerial extent of the main basin of the Karoo Supergroup is around 50% of the surface of the country (thus Main Karoo Basin area is around 610 518.5 square kilometers, depending on how you model the Karoo Sequence underneath Quaternary and Tertiary deposits). The number of fossils is looked at with great questions surrounding it, for a variety of reasons, one of them is that because we simply don’t know how many fossils there are, seeing that we don’t know exactly know how many fossils we have underground. Another one is that, from the fossils we find, only a small percentage is found in “fossil graveyards”. Most of them are found as lonely fossils dispersed amongst the rocks. We also have an excellent record of transitional fossils in the Karoo Sequence, from reptile to mammals. Fossils we find in the upper parts of the Permian, are reptiles. No mammals there. Some fossils show transitional features in rocks from the late Permian to very early Triassic. Then we find mammals in the Triassic. A great sequence of transitional fossils. Not buried in “fossil graveyards” at all, but dispersed randomly in a definite sequence in the strata from bottom to top.

Dont answer that, Ive seen the disnformation propaganda and lies already on this forum as it pertains to this fossil bone yard.

Can I answer? I’ve been working on strata in the Karoo Supergroup for more than 20 years? There’s no evidence for a large, big, fossil bone yard in the Karoo Supergroup. Fossils appear to be dispersed in the Supergroup, with fossils also found in aeolian deposits. A great source for information: The Stratigraphy of South Africa, Handbook 8, part 1, Lithostratigraphy of the Republic of South Africa, South West Africa/Namibia and the Republics of Bophuthatswana, Transkei and Venda; published by the Geological Survey of South Africa, in 1980. All the information you need to start a basic study of the Karoo fossils!

 

[Krok]

With remarks like this I addressed it in the only way it deserved. I mean come on pal, are you on crack or what?

You're the one who wants to be a martyr. I certainly don't. It would hurt too much for my liking.

 

[Bereanz]

Oh, I’d love to address that. I did my thesis on parts of the Karoo Supergroup and I’m still working on those areas. That’s my area of expertise.
Strata in the Main Karoo Basin, consisting of mostly glacial formations at the bottom, followed by coal seams amongst sandstones, shales and mudstones, followed by sandstone, shales and mustones, followed by Aeolian deposits, followed by interbedded aeolian and basaltic deposits in the upper parts. It records an almost continuous sequence of marine glacial to terrestrial deposition from the Late Carbonifeous to the Early Jurassic, a period of about a hundred million years. The Supergroup is up to 8 km thick in places. The coal seams occur in the Ecca Group (the second lowest group of strata), which dates to the middle Permian period.

The number of 800 000 fossils was given by someone who found a number of fossils at a spot, multiplied that number by the area of the Main Karoo Basin and declared 800 000 fossils in the Karoo. The aerial extent of the main basin of the Karoo Supergroup is around 50% of the surface of the country (thus Main Karoo Basin area is around 610 518.5 square kilometers, depending on how you model the Karoo Sequence underneath Quaternary and Tertiary deposits). The number of fossils is looked at with great questions surrounding it, for a variety of reasons, one of them is that because we simply don’t know how many fossils there are, seeing that we don’t know exactly know how many fossils we have underground. Another one is that, from the fossils we find, only a small percentage is found in “fossil graveyards”. Most of them are found as lonely fossils dispersed amongst the rocks. We also have an excellent record of transitional fossils in the Karoo Sequence, from reptile to mammals. Fossils we find in the upper parts of the Permian, are reptiles. No mammals there. Some fossils show transitional features in rocks from the late Permian to very early Triassic. Then we find mammals in the Triassic. A great sequence of transitional fossils. Not buried in “fossil graveyards” at all, but dispersed randomly in a definite sequence in the strata from bottom to top.

Can I answer? I’ve been working on strata in the Karoo Supergroup for more than 20 years? There’s no evidence for a large, big, fossil bone yard in the Karoo Supergroup. Fossils appear to be dispersed in the Supergroup, with fossils also found in aeolian deposits. A great source for information: The Stratigraphy of South Africa, Handbook 8, part 1, Lithostratigraphy of the Republic of South Africa, South West Africa/Namibia and the Republics of Bophuthatswana, Transkei and Venda; published by the Geological Survey of South Africa, in 1980. All the information you need to start a basic study of the Karoo fossils!

Lol 100 million years. Coal seems are proof positive of a world wide deluge AKA the flood! As is the earths sedimentary layers, as are rock formations and the grand canyon etc etc etc. Every honest human being worth his salt knows that. You're doing a thesis in disinformation. Good luck!

 

[Bereanz]

You're the one who wants to be a martyr. I certainly don't. It would hurt too much for my liking.

Jesus said it was "finished" when he died on the cross for the sins of man kind. There is no need for me to be a martyre. Change the record! By the way, martyrs are murdered agianst their will by systems and powers greater than themselves. Are you saying what you and your mates believe has the power to murder me for believing contrary to you? If so your arrogance extends to wickedness, evil and total depravity.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

If you want to stay "on topic" then why do you feel the need to pass comment on what you deem to be "off topic" comments? I was responding to a face palm levelled at my ON TOPIC comment about THE FOSSIL RECORD! If you've got a problem with that, then seek some counselling, unless of ocurse it's your desire to be intentionally controversial, provocking and confrontational, in which case you've succeeded. Well done. Another small ape like step for apekind.

My problem with it is you actually think that the biblical depiction of a supposed WWF actually happened even though I've come across no geologist that supports such a claim and it has been thoroughly dismissed as (legend). You went on trying to correlate what we know concerning the fossil record and your flood myth and they just don't sync up at all. Besides, you never presented any evidence to validate your assertions. What information you did present seemed to be incorrect (i.e. 500 million mammoths found). Even so. I presented information that contradicts your assertion. Your turn.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

There in a giant mammoth popsical.

Oh quick question. How can five hundred million of anything the size of a mammoth, be in a "single location"?

Just asking.

Are you serious???????

You're the one that said they were. We're telling you they weren't but you've presented NO evidence of such....So what, you now have come up with a case of selective amnesia? This is what you said.....

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/2395356-post2000.html

"How else do you explain a mass conglomerated fossil grave yard of over 500 million, that's right, 500 million mammoths in one place OTHER THAN a mass attempted escape from an all to apparent dissasterous flood? Because the reality (IE FACT) is they are where discovered to be entombed in a glacier."

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Lol 100 million years. Coal seems are proof positive of a world wide deluge AKA the flood! As is the earths sedimentary layers, as are rock formations and the grand canyon etc etc etc. Every honest human being worth his salt knows that. You're doing a thesis in disinformation. Good luck!

Fortunately for us there are a plethora of geologist around the world as well as anthropologist who disagree with your unfounded assertions. You scoff at the mention of (100 million years), how old do you think the Earth is?

 

[Krok]

Lol 100 million years. Coal seems are proof positive of a world wide deluge AKA the flood!

Exactly the opposite. Your lies won't change facts.

As is the earths sedimentary layers, as are rock formations and the grand canyon etc etc etc.

Explain the Clarens Formation in the Karoo Supergroup in relation to the flood, then. Please indicate how a flood deposited that formation.

Every honest human being worth his salt knows that. You're doing a thesis in disinformation. Good luck!

Are you accusing each of the more than 3 800 living professional South African Earth scientists of lying? If I may ask, do you have any knowledge of the Whitehill Formation?

 

[Krok]

Lol 100 million years. Coal seems are proof positive of a world wide deluge AKA the flood! As is the earths sedimentary layers, as are rock formations and the grand canyon etc etc etc. Every honest human being worth his salt knows that. You're doing a thesis in disinformation. Good luck!

Funny that not even one South African earth scientist ever has proposed that. They 're actually the people studying those rocks! Have you ever seen a Karoo Supergroup rock, seeing that you think you know it all?

 

[Amill]

I apologise, its 5 million, not 500 million mammoths frozen to death in Siberia in solid ice. Oh yes now your jumping with glee. Moving on I've corrected the typo (put it down to a mass onslaught of evolutionists descending on me at once. It's not a victory for you.

500 million mammoths in a glacier vs. 5 million all over siberia is not a "typo". And you kept asking us to do the research and find out for ourselves. But now you tell us that the original claim was a bunch of bullcrap. Why the dishonesty?

 

[painted wolf]

What about the Ashfall fossil beds?

Did the flood recede long enough for animals to return to this place and then get wiped out by a volcano? How else can such thick layers of dry fluffy ash get between sedimentary layers?

wa:do

 

[Jose Fly]

You havent supplied evidence of species into another species.

Yes I did. CLICK HERE to see.

The thing is I resent you expecting me to provide "sources" for what I have said, it basically means you are accusing me of lieing.

But that's exactly what you asked me to do when I said the evolution of new species has been observed. Your exact words were: "Post me just one link that proves evolution from one species into another species, as opposed to adaption within a spceies, just one! Now please! Makes sure you check it before sending it to me."

So why is it when you demand I provide sources for what I say, it's just fine, but when I ask you to provide a source for what you say, I'm accusing you of lying?

Just because you don't believe what I'm saying. If you don't believe what I am discussing in my own words based on my own research, thats your problem, not mine.

So why do you demand other people provide sources for their claims?

If I posted some one elses work I'd be accused of plagurism for posting screeds of other people work and not using my own words. WOULDNT I? Yes of course I would.

Post a link. That's not plagiarism.

Again, do your own research, my research shows there is NO PROOF for species into another species. If you have some, post it, that's your burden of proof, since it is the whole basis of the fallacy you use to claim evolution and the evolution of man from fish into early primates into human beings etc etc IE you and me, which is a total lie of epic proportion, as is the common ancestor fallacy, if you have proof, post it and stop playing semantic games.

Wow. Really? So in the same post where you say my asking you to provide a source is accusing you of lying, you turn right around and ask me to provide a source?

Dude, look...I've been really patient and nice to you, so there's no reason for you to be so defensive. Relax. If you're straight with me, I'll be straight with you. Don't ask me to do things you aren't willing to do yourself. If you don't want to provide sources for the things you say, don't demand it of me. Personally, I have no problem providing sources, ok?

So do you or don't you have a source for your claim regarding 5 million mammoth remains?

 

[Autodidact]

If a five minute google is the extent of you're eductaion and style of debate, please try to refrain engaging directly with me again. I dont engage in meangingful debate with people who have proven themselves to be hostile and rude at any given opportunity.

Good Day.

PS. If you cant be civil I will be viewing your continued and unremitting direct replys to me as trolling and harrasment and it will be reported.

However much time I spent researching and documenting my assertions is infinitely more than you spent, which was approximately zero. Only one person in this thread has been hostile and rude--you.

Here on the internet, the custom for people making assertions is for them to bear the responsibility to support them. Not only have you failed to do so, but I have provided support that shows they are wrong. Your assertion was false.

As was your assertion that my sources were "evolutionist", i.e. scientific. I used only creationists in my response. So not even your fellow creationists agree with your assertion. It is wrong. There is nothing rude about pointing that out.

Now, if I were to share my opinion about what sort of person posts falsehoods, refuses to support them, and makes unfounded accusations against other posters, that might be different.

But I didn't.

Unless you want to provide some support to counter the sources I provided?

Do you have any other assertions you would like to make?

 

[Autodidact]

You havent supplied evidence of species into another species. The thing is I resent you expecting me to provide "sources" for what I have said, it basically means you are accusing me of lieing. Just because you don't believe what I'm saying. If you don't believe what I am discussing in my own words based on my own research, thats your problem, not mine. If I posted some one elses work I'd be accused of plagurism for posting screeds of other people work and not using my own words. WOULDNT I? Yes of course I would. Again, do your own research, my research shows there is NO PROOF for species into another species. If you have some, post it, that's your burden of proof, since it is the whole basis of the fallacy you use to claim evolution and the evolution of man from fish into early primates into human beings etc etc IE you and me, which is a total lie of epic proportion, as is the common ancestor fallacy, if you have proof, post it and stop playing semantic games.

You might want to spend some time learning the forum rules; your understanding is incorrect.

If I provide peer-reviewed, scientific journal articles documenting the emergence of new species, will you change your position?

 

[Autodidact]

I apologise, its 5 million, not 500 million mammoths frozen to death in Siberia in solid ice.

O.K., great, people who can admit error are excellent. Only off by a factor of 100. Now, where are you getting this 5 million number from? Can you provide a cite for that? Thanks.

 

[Autodidact]

Lol 100 million years. Coal seems are proof positive of a world wide deluge AKA the flood! As is the earths sedimentary layers, as are rock formations and the grand canyon etc etc etc. Every honest human being worth his salt knows that. You're doing a thesis in disinformation. Good luck!

Could you focus on the content rather than mere ad hominem arguments. You know ad hominem is a fallacy, right? Assertions are not arguments. Thus far you have provided approximately zero support for your assertions.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

I'd like to also point out that there were civilizations in existence before, *during* and after the supposed biblical deluge (i.e. Sumerian, Egyptian and Chinese)..