What Does The Torah, Bible and Quran Say About Genetic Engineering?

[iholdit]

In judaism,christianity and islam there is scripture against genetic modification and genetic engineering(Lev 19:19,Mat 15:13,Quran 30:30). Yet in the u.s. there are no labels on foods indicating they contain genetically modified plants or animals. Foods contain labels with ingredients for those who are allergic and for those who are religiously opposed to eating certain foods. Yet genetically modified foods have no labels.

Besides genetically modified plants and animals in food there are genetically modified bacteria, viruses, and other microorganisms found in many vaccines(as well as aborted human fetus cells). Vaccines have been used for about 200 years. However it has only been in the past few decades that vaccines containing genetically modified microorganisms and aborted human fetus cells have been introduced. The main reason for this genetic modification seems to be for the manufactures to patent the vaccines and make more money off of them. You cannot patent a living(or dead) organism unless it has been genetically modified.

There are studies which show animals who are fed certain genetically modified foods got certain diseases like cancer and liver and kidney toxicity to name a few. We have no idea the long term effect many of the genetically modified foods will have on us. Many diseases take 10 years or more to develop and many of them go undetected for even longer periods. Mad cow disease was caused by people feeding cows parts of other cows. There is aborted human fetus cells in vaccines and what is to say that those human cells wont cause a similar disease to mad cow.

If the fda already approved the use of aborted human fetus cells in vaccines whats to say they wont approve human dna to be used in genetically modified foods. There is already research being done on genetically modified foods with human dna in them.
Rice with human genes being grown in the u.s.
Human Genes In Rice: Opening up Pandora's Pot? | Worldwatch Institute

There is evidence that genetically modified plants are spreading in the wild and are sharing genetically modified genes. So it is possible that even non genetically modified plants may breed with genetically modified plants and then have these genetically modified genes.
Genetically Modified Rape Taking Over North Dakota : TreeHugger

Besides the risk of disease caused by genetically engineered and modified foods there is also a risk to laboratory workers and farmers working with genetically engineered and modified plants.
Bacteria used to genetically modify plants have changed genes in humans.
Common Plant Vector Injects Genes into Human Cells - A GMO Nightmare! | Farm Wars

I ask all jews,christians and muslims to speak to their religious leaders about genetically modified foods and ways to get genetically modified foods in the u.s. labelled such as writing letters to politicians.
My question is do you agree or disagree with the op? If you agree what other ideas do you have on this matter?

 

[Flankerl]

In judaism,christianity and islam there is scripture against genetic modification and genetic engineering(Lev 19:19

Uhm what?
יט אֶת-חֻקֹּתַי, תִּשְׁמֹרוּ--בְּהֶמְתְּךָ לֹא-תַרְבִּיעַ כִּלְאַיִם, שָׂדְךָ לֹא-תִזְרַע כִּלְאָיִם; וּבֶגֶד כִּלְאַיִם שַׁעַטְנֵז, לֹא יַעֲלֶה עָלֶיךָ.
19 Ye shall keep My statutes. Thou shalt not let thy cattle gender with a diverse kind; thou shalt not sow thy field with two kinds of seed; neither shall there come upon thee a garment of two kinds of stuff mingled together.


I wasnt aware that we are cattle.

 

[iholdit]

Uhm what?
?? ???-????????, ???????????--???????????? ???-?????????? ??????????, ??????? ???-??????? ??????????; ??????? ?????????? ??????????, ??? ??????? ???????.
19 Ye shall keep My statutes. Thou shalt not let thy cattle gender with a diverse kind; thou shalt not sow thy field with two kinds of seed; neither shall there come upon thee a garment of two kinds of stuff mingled together.


I wasnt aware that we are cattle.

We shall not let our cattle breed with a "different kind". This means we can not breed cows,sheep, goats etc. with different animals for example.
This is what genetic modification does, it introduces genes from other animals or plants etc. into an organism. So genes from a fish might be introduced to a sheep for example. This would be a violation of lev. 19:19.

I never said we are cattle i have no idea where you got that from.

 

[iholdit]

To add to my last post. There are many examples of gentically modified or engineered cattle. Here is an example of genetically engineered goats.
Goats Supply Controversial New Drug through Genetic Engineering

 

[A-ManESL]

You are misquoting the Quranic verse 30:30, where by natural instinct of man is meant the natural inclination and disposition, and not the biological properties.

And so set your heart and thoughts O Muhammad upon the Faith and rest your eyes upon Allah with sincere feeling and actions and with firmness in fidelity and allegiance and in the fulfillment of all duties owed to Him. This is the natural instinct and the innate propensity Allah has implanted in mankind and no change ever shall there be nor should there be. This right and commendable religion is the only system of faith and worship that leads directly to Allah, but most people fail to realize this fact.-Quran 30:30

 

[iholdit]

You are misquoting the Quranic verse 30:30, where by natural instinct of man is meant the natural inclination and disposition, and not the biological properties.

The verse says "No change in Allahs creation should be made". Regardless the question is do you believe Allahs creation should be changed? Do you believe man knows better than Allah that we should change what Allah has created?

 

[Levite]

In judaism,christianity and islam there is scripture against genetic modification and genetic engineering(Lev 19:19,Mat 15:13,Quran 30:30). Yet in the u.s. there are no labels on foods indicating they contain genetically modified plants or animals. Foods contain labels with ingredients for those who are allergic and for those who are religiously opposed to eating certain foods. Yet genetically modified foods have no labels.

Besides genetically modified plants and animals in food there are genetically modified bacteria, viruses, and other microorganisms found in many vaccines(as well as aborted human fetus cells). Vaccines have been used for about 200 years. However it has only been in the past few decades that vaccines containing genetically modified microorganisms and aborted human fetus cells have been introduced. The main reason for this genetic modification seems to be for the manufactures to patent the vaccines and make more money off of them. You cannot patent a living(or dead) organism unless it has been genetically modified.

There are studies which show animals who are fed certain genetically modified foods got certain diseases like cancer and liver and kidney toxicity to name a few. We have no idea the long term effect many of the genetically modified foods will have on us. Many diseases take 10 years or more to develop and many of them go undetected for even longer periods. Mad cow disease was caused by people feeding cows parts of other cows. There is aborted human fetus cells in vaccines and what is to say that those human cells wont cause a similar disease to mad cow.

If the fda already approved the use of aborted human fetus cells in vaccines whats to say they wont approve human dna to be used in genetically modified foods. There is already research being done on genetically modified foods with human dna in them.
Rice with human genes being grown in the u.s.

There is evidence that genetically modified plants are spreading in the wild and are sharing genetically modified genes. So it is possible that even non genetically modified plants may breed with genetically modified plants and then have these genetically modified genes.

Besides the risk of disease caused by genetically engineered and modified foods there is also a risk to laboratory workers and farmers working with genetically engineered and modified plants.
Bacteria used to genetically modify plants have changed genes in humans.

I ask all jews,christians and muslims to speak to their religious leaders about genetically modified foods and ways to get genetically modified foods in the u.s. labelled such as writing letters to politicians.
My question is do you agree or disagree with the op? If you agree what other ideas do you have on this matter?

So, as always, it is important to recall that Judaism never has one single opinion about anything. Judaism is a tradition that embraces multiple viewpoints, and Jews are a people that love disagreeing with one another, so there are always a great range of "Jewish opinion" about anything and everything.

As it so happens, there's actually quite a bit of halakhic discussion going on right now concerning genetically modified crops and so forth.

The concept of kilayim, or the breeding of different species, has been a subject of debate for many years, yet it has more often been interpreted leniently, and not harshly. For example, a particularly strict reading of the law might lead one to think that nectaplums, pluots, apriums, loganberries, boysenberries, limequats, clementines, tangelos, and such fruits would be prohibited for Jews to eat or grow. And yet rabbinic authorities have been fairly consistent in ruling that such fruits are permitted both for eating and for growing-- indeed, Israel grows many of these fruits in great volume.

Complicating the matter is that there are a number of very different viewpoints on to what degree halakhah even applies at the microscopic level. Most non-Orthodox Jews do not consider that halakhah applies at the microscopic level, and many Modern Orthodox Jews also hold this. In fact, though he never wrote it down, Rav Joseph Soleveitchik, the great Orthodox halakhist and philosopher of the mid-20th century, seems to have said in his classes at a number of points that he believed that halakhah did not apply at the microscopic level. However, there are some Haredi (ultra-Orthodox) rabbis who say entirely the opposite: halakhah does operate at the microscopic level, according to them, and these folks have people filtering their water for microscopic brine creatures, and washing their broccoli with bleach to kill off any near-microscopic insects that might be wandering around in the florets, and insanity like that.

So far, the Jewish voices that have been particularly interested in genetically modified crops have been those who fear the ecological impact of such crops, and the possible compromising of nutrition with potentially toxic genetic introductions. The bases in Jewish law for addressing these issues would probably not include the proscription of kilayim, but would stem from other texts. There simply is not an adequate history of precedent to apply kilayim like this, and even if one wished to do so in a radical move, there are just better solutions to get the job done.

Genetic engineering, in principle, if it could be guaranteed to be safe, would not necessarily violate Jewish law, as far as I can tell. It is by no means a given interpretation, or even necessarily a likely interpretation, to say that the proscription of kilayim is a blanket ban on all genetic engineering or modification, though.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

To some people Genetic engineering is a nest of worms.
In a religious sense some might say it is playing god.

I would argue that genetic engineering is no more playing god than traditional plant breeding, though it can certainly shortcut the process.

I am happy to accept "Levites" reading of the particular scripture, rather than a secondhand Christian one.

Where I see the future danger is to rely on engineered crops and animals, to the exclusion of the original ones. This will reduce the gene pool and could lead to trouble in the future.

 

[iholdit]

So, as always, it is important to recall that Judaism never has one single opinion about anything. Judaism is a tradition that embraces multiple viewpoints, and Jews are a people that love disagreeing with one another, so there are always a great range of "Jewish opinion" about anything and everything.

As it so happens, there's actually quite a bit of halakhic discussion going on right now concerning genetically modified crops and so forth.

The concept of kilayim, or the breeding of different species, has been a subject of debate for many years, yet it has more often been interpreted leniently, and not harshly. For example, a particularly strict reading of the law might lead one to think that nectaplums, pluots, apriums, loganberries, boysenberries, limequats, clementines, tangelos, and such fruits would be prohibited for Jews to eat or grow. And yet rabbinic authorities have been fairly consistent in ruling that such fruits are permitted both for eating and for growing-- indeed, Israel grows many of these fruits in great volume.

Complicating the matter is that there are a number of very different viewpoints on to what degree halakhah even applies at the microscopic level. Most non-Orthodox Jews do not consider that halakhah applies at the microscopic level, and many Modern Orthodox Jews also hold this. In fact, though he never wrote it down, Rav Joseph Soleveitchik, the great Orthodox halakhist and philosopher of the mid-20th century, seems to have said in his classes at a number of points that he believed that halakhah did not apply at the microscopic level. However, there are some Haredi (ultra-Orthodox) rabbis who say entirely the opposite: halakhah does operate at the microscopic level, according to them, and these folks have people filtering their water for microscopic brine creatures, and washing their broccoli with bleach to kill off any near-microscopic insects that might be wandering around in the florets, and insanity like that.

So far, the Jewish voices that have been particularly interested in genetically modified crops have been those who fear the ecological impact of such crops, and the possible compromising of nutrition with potentially toxic genetic introductions. The bases in Jewish law for addressing these issues would probably not include the proscription of kilayim, but would stem from other texts. There simply is not an adequate history of precedent to apply kilayim like this, and even if one wished to do so in a radical move, there are just better solutions to get the job done.

Genetic engineering, in principle, if it could be guaranteed to be safe, would not necessarily violate Jewish law, as far as I can tell. It is by no means a given interpretation, or even necessarily a likely interpretation, to say that the proscription of kilayim is a blanket ban on all genetic engineering or modification, though.

There are those within Judaism who would agree with the interpretation given. Regardless there are many jews against genetic engineering or modification.
The Jew and the Carrot » Blog Archive » Frankenstein Falafel? Israeli Consumers at Risk from GM Foods - Voice of the New Jewish Food Movement
This article goes into some of the health risks involved with genetically engineered and modified foods etc. Was this health risk related to the verses in scripture you were saying better support my position? If not can you give me an idea of what verses you are talking about?

 

[Levite]

There are those within Judaism who would agree with the interpretation given. Regardless there are many jews against genetic engineering or modification.
The Jew and the Carrot » Blog Archive » Frankenstein Falafel? Israeli Consumers at Risk from GM Foods - Voice of the New Jewish Food Movement
This article goes into some of the health risks involved with genetically engineered and modified foods etc. Was this health risk related to the verses in scripture you were saying better support my position? If not can you give me an idea of what verses you are talking about?

Yeah, the position they cite in this article is that of the Teva Learning Centre, which is an ecological social action group. They're a dandy social action group, but they are not serious halakhists: they're social agitators. I'm not saying that's bad-- I happen to support much of their agenda. But their use of kilayim as halakhic proof is actually not very good halakhah.

In terms of health risks, what they allude to but do not cite directly is the principle I mentioned previously of pikuach nefesh, the requirement to save lives. There is also a principle of conservation, bal tashchit, which could serve their purposes very well, and if anything directly Biblical were used, it could be the commandment in Genesis to become wardens of the natural world.

As to other verses, the thing is, quite often in halakhah-- most often, really-- the literal meaning of verses from Torah is not what is used. Usually what is used are principles and exegetical teachings of the Rabbis of the Talmud, and halakhic codes and responsa composed in the post-Talmudic eras.

I haven't collected the kinds of halakhic proofs needed to cite for this particular issue. I support caution in the environment, and in dealing with genetic engineering, but halakhically, I just have different areas of interest.

 

[iholdit]

Yeah, the position they cite in this article is that of the Teva Learning Centre, which is an ecological social action group. They're a dandy social action group, but they are not serious halakhists: they're social agitators. I'm not saying that's bad-- I happen to support much of their agenda. But their use of kilayim as halakhic proof is actually not very good halakhah.

In terms of health risks, what they allude to but do not cite directly is the principle I mentioned previously of pikuach nefesh, the requirement to save lives. There is also a principle of conservation, bal tashchit, which could serve their purposes very well, and if anything directly Biblical were used, it could be the commandment in Genesis to become wardens of the natural world.

As to other verses, the thing is, quite often in halakhah-- most often, really-- the literal meaning of verses from Torah is not what is used. Usually what is used are principles and exegetical teachings of the Rabbis of the Talmud, and halakhic codes and responsa composed in the post-Talmudic eras.

I haven't collected the kinds of halakhic proofs needed to cite for this particular issue. I support caution in the environment, and in dealing with genetic engineering, but halakhically, I just have different areas of interest.

Thank you for your reply.

Ultimately the question is do you support the position of getting genetically modified or engineered foods labelled in the u.s.?

Do you support the position of not allowing genetically modified or engineered foods to be grown or kept outdoors?

Those are my main objective at this point.

Also, if you dont mind can you give me your interpretation of isaiah 17:10-11?
I interpret it to be a warning against planting invasive(foreign) plants.

 

[Levite]

Ultimately the question is do you support the position of getting genetically modified or engineered foods labelled in the u.s.?

Do you support the position of not allowing genetically modified or engineered foods to be grown or kept outdoors?

I do support the labelling of genetically modified or engineered foods, comprehensively, although I also think it would behoove everyone to better understand precisely what has been modified or engineered, since not all modifications or innovations are high-risk.

And until there is fairly conclusive proof that such organisms can be kept outdoors without risks of cross-contamination of non-modified organisms and other attendant problems, I do support the position of not allowing GMO/GEF to be exposed to the outdoors.

Also, if you dont mind can you give me your interpretation of isaiah 17:10-11?
I interpret it to be a warning against planting invasive(foreign) plants.

It's actually about idolatry, assimilation, and the subjugation of ancient Israel by enemies. The bulk of the Hebrew Scriptures were composed in an era where the dominant economy was agrarian. Most people farmed or raised cattle, and so the poets of the time, including the prophets and Biblical authors, frequently employ naturalistic or agrarian imagery. It was something their audience could easily relate to.

But it was very seldom, if ever, literal. It was poetic imagery, the same as in English poetry of a Romantic or naturalistic character.

 

[iholdit]

I do support the labelling of genetically modified or engineered foods, comprehensively, although I also think it would behoove everyone to better understand precisely what has been modified or engineered, since not all modifications or innovations are high-risk.

And until there is fairly conclusive proof that such organisms can be kept outdoors without risks of cross-contamination of non-modified organisms and other attendant problems, I do support the position of not allowing GMO/GEF to be exposed to the outdoors.



It's actually about idolatry, assimilation, and the subjugation of ancient Israel by enemies. The bulk of the Hebrew Scriptures were composed in an era where the dominant economy was agrarian. Most people farmed or raised cattle, and so the poets of the time, including the prophets and Biblical authors, frequently employ naturalistic or agrarian imagery. It was something their audience could easily relate to.

But it was very seldom, if ever, literal. It was poetic imagery, the same as in English poetry of a Romantic or naturalistic character.

I thank you for your response and your support.

I interpret most of the torah and the tanakh both literally and metaphorically. I would consider lev 19:19 for example to have a literal, physical meaning, not to purposely create hybrids or allowing gmo/ gef. Also no mingled seeds would be to limit hybrids or horizontal gene transfer. The same passage also has a metaphorical meaning which is spiritual.

I do enjoy reading other interpretations as i usually learn more from them and i appreciate you taking the time to interpret for me.

Is your support of my last 2 questions your own opinion or is this support also expressed by members of your community?

 

[Levite]

I thank you for your response and your support.

I interpret most of the torah and the tanakh both literally and metaphorically. I would consider lev 19:19 for example to have a literal, physical meaning, not to purposely create hybrids or allowing gmo/ gef. Also no mingled seeds would be to limit hybrids or horizontal gene transfer. The same passage also has a metaphorical meaning which is spiritual.

I do enjoy reading other interpretations as i usually learn more from them and i appreciate you taking the time to interpret for me.

Is your support of my last 2 questions your own opinion or is this support also expressed by members of your community?

It is my own opinion, though I know more than a few rabbis, and an increasing number of lay Jews, who agree.

 

[iholdit]

It is my own opinion, though I know more than a few rabbis, and an increasing number of lay Jews, who agree.

I am glad to hear it. Thank you for the support and for the responses.

 

[iholdit]

To some people Genetic engineering is a nest of worms.
In a religious sense some might say it is playing god.

I would argue that genetic engineering is no more playing god than traditional plant breeding, though it can certainly shortcut the process.

I am happy to accept "Levites" reading of the particular scripture, rather than a secondhand Christian one.

Where I see the future danger is to rely on engineered crops and animals, to the exclusion of the original ones. This will reduce the gene pool and could lead to trouble in the future.

Genetic engineering and modification has much different consequences the traditional plant breeding. For example certain bacteria etc. that have genes with poisonous properties have had those genes added to plants. The reasoning for this is to reduce the use of pesticides thus cutting the cost of production. The problem is the poison(pesticide) is now a part of the plant, where if regular pesticides were used it is more likely that you will be able to wash the pesticides off.

Another issue discussed is there have been several studies with gmo/gef that show various health issues in lab animals who are eating these foods.

Yet another issue is the risk of these gmo/gef mixing genes with regular crops whether through breeding or horizontal gene transfer.

My question would be do you believe that gmo/gef should be banned from being grown outdoors, considering there have cases where they have spread in the wild?

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Genetic engineering and modification has much different consequences the traditional plant breeding. For example certain bacteria etc. that have genes with poisonous properties have had those genes added to plants. The reasoning for this is to reduce the use of pesticides thus cutting the cost of production. The problem is the poison(pesticide) is now a part of the plant, where if regular pesticides were used it is more likely that you will be able to wash the pesticides off.

Another issue discussed is there have been several studies with gmo/gef that show various health issues in lab animals who are eating these foods.

Yet another issue is the risk of these gmo/gef mixing genes with regular crops whether through breeding or horizontal gene transfer.

My question would be do you believe that gmo/gef should be banned from being grown outdoors, considering there have cases where they have spread in the wild?

I generally support the British majority view that GM crops are not yet proved safe.
And their use should always be made known to the consumer.
They should be controlled and not permitted into the wild.

However I do not believe this will always be the case or be so in every case.

genes seem to share the same characterises and are shared in all life forms. Gene therapy seems to hold some benefit already, even though we are in the early stages of developing the science.

The greatest danger lays in using genetically altered crops exclusively, and with out long term testing.

Some crops exported from the USA seem to have passed the point of no return and is in use in food world wide. This must be bad.

 

[iholdit]

I generally support the British majority view that GM crops are not yet proved safe.
And their use should always be made known to the consumer.
They should be controlled and not permitted into the wild.

However I do not believe this will always be the case or be so in every case.

genes seem to share the same characterises and are shared in all life forms. Gene therapy seems to hold some benefit already, even though we are in the early stages of developing the science.

The greatest danger lays in using genetically altered crops exclusively, and with out long term testing.

Some crops exported from the USA seem to have passed the point of no return and is in use in food world wide. This must be bad.

Although genes are shared in all life forms, the same genes in different organisms can have different functions depending on gene expression for example.

Long term studies certainly should be done. However, even short term studies have shown various negative health effects in lab animals eating various gm and ge foods.
Monsanto and GM Foods: Health Risks - SourceWatch
Monsanto's GMO Corn Linked To Organ Failure, Study Reveals

Unfortunately you are correct that u.s. gm and ge foods are being used world wide. In the u.s.food market more than 2/3 of foods have at least some amount of crop that are gm or ge. However, i do not believe we are passed the point of no return, as all things are possible through the father.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Unfortunately you are correct that u.s. gm and ge foods are being used world wide. In the u.s.food market more than 2/3 of foods have at least some amount of crop that are gm or ge. However, i do not believe we are passed the point of no return, as all things are possible through the father.

I do not believe God is there to sort out our problems, when we make a mess of things.
Sorting Genes out of mixed gene crops, would be like unmixing water and wine.
Can't be done.

 

[iholdit]

I do not believe God is there to sort out our problems, when we make a mess of things.
Sorting Genes out of mixed gene crops, would be like unmixing water and wine.
Can't be done.

I agree, but there are ways of detecting what genes are in an organism. We can find those that are gmo and geo and eliminate them from the wild before they contaminate all other plants. It is definitely a difficult task but the sooner we start doing it the easier it will be.