What Drives The Trump Haters

[Underhill]

We know that Trump is prone to hatred.
But this does not excuse the rampant vitriol coming from the losing
side, who are far & away more prone to demonizing the opposing side.
Sure, sure, you resent us for voting him into office. But you don't
face how the alternative appeared to portend an even worse outcome.

I remember we've had this discussion. And I am still baffled by what you think this "worse outcome" would be? Bombing Syria? Making us a laughing stock for the rest of the world? Perhaps making our economy incredibly unstable by spouting reactionary populist economic policy?

The best thing to do is be civil to the other side, no matter how they voted.
Just accept that reasonable people can disagree. Criminy...look at
the Supreme Court. They're supposed to be genius level constitutional
scholars, & yet they often split 5/4. But do they call each other "deplorable"
or "commie"? No...not usually.

There is a difference between 9 well educated individuals who disagree in their arguments and what we see at Trump rallies. To pretend that the left is the overarching problem because Hillary called the rabid Trump supporters 'deplorables' is a bit disingenuous when you look at everything Trump has said. I would agree that the hatred is a problem. But I see Trump as the major driver of this hatred, not the democratic leadership who, for the most part, are not spouting hateful rhetoric.

 

[Shadow Link]

Obama's birth certificate...

I'm not buying it. That was a constitutional issue on eligibility to even be able to hold office. Ask Ted Cruz, the guy that led the charge after Obama on the issue and then turns around four years later to run for office knowing he wasn't eligible. Make any sense to you?

 

[Shadow Link]

Wow. just. wow.

Just wait, there's more.

 

[Revoltingest]

I remember we've had this discussion. And I am still baffled by what you think this "worse outcome" would be? Bombing Syria? Making us a laughing stock for the rest of the world? Perhaps making our economy incredibly unstable by spouting reactionary populist economic policy?

You see the actuality of Trump's being in power, & in the worst (partisan) light.
You don't see what Hillary would've effected, & so imagine that it would be better.
This isn't something I can address.

There is a difference between 9 well educated individuals who disagree in their arguments and what we see at Trump rallies.

But looking at the attitude of many Hillary fans, they see the actions of
a few miscreants, & make them writ large about all who voted for Trump.
This is bigotry.
Each side had reasons for their choice. Some were reasonable, & some
were not. So neither side should be abused as irrational, sexist, mean, etc
for merely being on that side. Treat people as individuals.

To pretend that the left is the overarching problem because Hillary called the rabid Trump supporters 'deplorables' is a bit disingenuous when you look at everything Trump has said.

To excuse the venom of the left towards all who voted for Trump by
saying "But Trump started it!" is the real disingenuous attitude.

I would agree that the hatred is a problem. But I see Trump as the major driver of this hatred, not the democratic leadership who, for the most part, are not spouting hateful rhetoric.

It's simple....
Each side should disagree about policy with civility.
Anyone who paints feces with a broad brush is doing wrong.

 

[idav]

You see the actuality of Trump's being in power, & in the worst (partisan) light.
You don't see what Hillary would've effected, & so imagine that it would be better.
This isn't something I can address.

But looking at the attitude of many Hillary fans, they see the actions of
a few miscreants, & make them writ large about all who voted for Trump.
This is bigotry.
Each side had reasons for their choice. Some were reasonable, & some
were not. So neither side should be abused as irrational, sexist, mean, etc
for merely being on that side. Treat people as individuals.

To excuse the venom of the left towards all who voted for Trump by
saying "But Trump started it!" is the real disingenuous attitude.

It's simple....
Each side should disagree about policy with civility.
Anyone who paints feces with a broad brush is doing wrong.

What I see is people on both sides disagreeing with trumps policies and attitude and many on the right keep making it about Hillary and even Trump himself keeps making it a Democrats thing. Oh them liberals etc. It isn’t just Democrats disagreeing with Trump. It isn’t about who voted for Trump, it’s about his policies and attitude, it’s about Trump which people take personal.

 

[idav]

Another thing I notice is that Trump keeps the polarizing attitude going since he is already campaigning for 2020 and he is making sure to keep the divide alive making it all about partisan politics which still isn’t true as he constantly misrepresents Democrats arguments via straw man tactics.

 

[Revoltingest]

What I see is people on both sides disagreeing with trumps policies and attitude and many on the right keep making it about Hillary and even Trump himself keeps making it a Democrats thing. Oh them liberals etc. It isn’t just Democrats disagreeing with Trump. It isn’t about who voted for Trump, it’s about his policies and attitude, it’s about Trump which people take personal.

It should be about policies.

 

[idav]

It should be about policies.

Right, about the laws Trump and the majority Congress try and pass.

 

[Underhill]

You see the actuality of Trump's being in power, & in the worst (partisan) light.
You don't see what Hillary would've effected, & so imagine that it would be better.
This isn't something I can address.

Right, and you imagine it would be worse. Because she is known for her being a braggart, a liar and for being despised around the globe. She is known for making uneducated public statements than lead to economic chaos...

I find it hard to fathom how any reasonable person could compare the two and believe she could in any way be worse.

But looking at the attitude of many Hillary fans, they see the actions of
a few miscreants, & make them writ large about all who voted for Trump.
This is bigotry.

Perhaps. Or perhaps they know enough of these people to make an honest judgement about, if not all Trump supporters, enough of them to simply be accurate.

Each side had reasons for their choice. Some were reasonable, & some
were not. So neither side should be abused as irrational, sexist, mean, etc
for merely being on that side. Treat people as individuals.

Sure, and on one side that is common, on the other, not so much.

To excuse the venom of the left towards all who voted for Trump by
saying "But Trump started it!" is the real disingenuous attitude.

I don't dismiss venom on the left. But it is largely a reaction to Trump by those who know no other way to fight him. You hear it from people on this very forum who honestly believe the only answer for Trump is to respond in kind. It's impossible to not link those attitudes directly to Trump.

It's simple....
Each side should disagree about policy with civility.
Anyone who paints feces with a broad brush is doing wrong.

Sure, but painting feces where there is feces is simply accurate reporting.

 

[Underhill]

Just wait, there's more.

I wait with baited breath.

 

[Revoltingest]

Right, about the laws Trump and the majority Congress try and pass.

Aye, there's much going on....some good, some bad, all worth monitoring.
As for Donald's porn star friends, I couldn't give a rat's patootie.


Woohoo!
"Patootie" got past the RF propriety & innocence filters.

 

[Revoltingest]

I find it hard to fathom how any reasonable person could compare the two and believe she could in any way be worse.

That explains the animosity between the 2 sides.
Apparently, I'm just better at understanding opposing views.
This stems from my not seeing either side as right or wrong, moral
or immoral, smart or dumb, educated or ignorant, bigoted or saintly, etc.
I see reasons for people voting as they do, for one, & against the other.
We all have different goals, values, & methods of ranking the candidates.

Perhaps. Or perhaps they know enough of these people to make an honest judgement about, if not all Trump supporters, enough of them to simply be accurate.

I see such judgement as political bigotry, ie, demonize
the group, & then all the individuals within.

Sure, and on one side that is common, on the other, not so much.

So you say.
Generally, everyone thinks their side is better than the other.
But none recognize the irony.

I don't dismiss venom on the left. But it is largely a reaction to Trump by those who know no other way to fight him. You hear it from people on this very forum who honestly believe the only answer for Trump is to respond in kind. It's impossible to not link those attitudes directly to Trump.

If people on the forum loathe Trump's venom, but respond "in kind" to posters here, this is misguided.

Sure, but painting feces where there is feces is simply accurate reporting.

Bigots always believe they're right about "those people".
It's their excuse be abusive.

 

[Underhill]

That explains the animosity between the 2 sides.
Apparently, I'm just better at understanding opposing views.
This stems from my not seeing either side as right or wrong, moral
or immoral, smart or dumb, educated or ignorant, bigoted or saintly, etc.
I see reasons for people voting as they do, for one, & against the other.
We all have different goals, values, & methods of ranking the candidates.

Not seeing reality is not simply different values. It's a form of blindness. Trump is not a good person. Ignore that at your own peril. But my description was accurate.

I see such judgement as political bigotry, ie, demonize
the group, & then all the individuals within.

Yes, except I didn't demonize the group but made judgements based upon experience and evidence at hand. That is not bigotry.

So you say.
Generally, everyone thinks their side is better than the other.
But none recognize the irony.

Yeah, well I am not everyone. If you cannot see a difference between Trump and virtually every other person in Washington, republican or democrat, then you are blind. It isn't about my side or yours. It's about him and his actions. Just as it is with many of his followers. I am not claiming my side is simply better, but that his actions and the actions of many of his followers are demonstrably worse by a wide margin. The evidence supports this. The left is not immune. But there have not been any presidents in my lifetime that have been this polarizing, angry and judgemental, not to mention destructive on either side of the aisle.

If people on the forum loathe Trump's venom, but respond "in kind" to posters here, this is misguided.

I agree that responding in kind is a mistake. But it is a response to his actions and did not happen with nearly this regularity under Bush or Reagan because they were not as destructive as this president. While I do not condone their actions, it is hard to not put a large part of the blame on this president and his attitudes and actions.

Many people blamed Obama for the divisiveness that occurred under his watch and yet I cannot think of a single speech, tweet or interview of his (over 8 years) that was as venomous or as destructive as those carried out by Trump on a nearly daily basis.

Bigots always believe they're right about "those people".
It's their excuse be abusive.

So Nazi protesters, people screaming to 'lock her up' in spite of a complete lack of any evidence of wrong doing, people physically assaulting those who disagree at rallies (at the presidents behest..), people who claimed Obama was a foreign born Muslim (at the behest of our current president)... I am not supposed to judge these people as sub par.

Meanwhile Trumps characterizations of immigrants, the media and anyone who disagrees with him are something you support with your vote.

And I am the bigot?

Got it.

 

[Stevicus]

I don't dismiss venom on the left. But it is largely a reaction to Trump by those who know no other way to fight him.

If they know of no other way to fight him, then that would indicate a lack of imagination and skewed insight into what is actually happening in this country.

It's not just a reaction to Trump that I observe, but it's also tied in with passionately defending previous administrations and failed policies. If they could come up with some new ideas or something progressive and visionary for the future, then it would be different.

But if the same old political establishment, which has been screwing America for decades, are now trying to get people to believe that "Trump is evil," then they're going to have to come up with something more substantial than a barrage of vitriol and loaded rhetoric. They've got a limited repertoire and few new ideas.

 

[Underhill]

If they know of no other way to fight him, then that would indicate a lack of imagination and skewed insight into what is actually happening in this country.

It's not just a reaction to Trump that I observe, but it's also tied in with passionately defending previous administrations and failed policies. If they could come up with some new ideas or something progressive and visionary for the future, then it would be different.

But if it's the same old political establishment which has been screwing America for decades are now trying to get people to believe that "Trump is evil," then they're going to have to come up with something more substantial than a barrage of vitriol and loaded rhetoric. They've got a limited repertoire and few new ideas.

That is a reasonable response. And I don't entirely disagree. However there are those with alternative ideas.

Bernie Sanders is a prime example. Agree with him or not, it's hard to argue him and those like him are not marching to a different drum.

 

[Stevicus]

That is a reasonable response. And I don't entirely disagree. However there are those with alternative ideas.

Bernie Sanders is a prime example. Agree with him or not, it's hard to argue him and those like him are not marching to a different drum.

I liked Sanders, but again, the problem here is that the Democrats rejected him and his alternative ideas. This speaks volumes about just how intransigent and closed-minded so many of them are.

 

[Revoltingest]

And I am the bigot?

Well, I didn't say that you were.
But if you judge all in a group by the behavior of
a few, then you should consider what this means.

 

[Underhill]

I liked Sanders, but again, the problem here is that the Democrats rejected him and his alternative ideas. This speaks volumes about just how intransigent and closed-minded so many of them are.

You say that, but it was the closest I've seen anyone come to overthrowing the status quo (in a positive way at least).

After Trump, I suspect a positive movement like that will have even more impact.

 

[Underhill]

Well, I didn't say that you were.
But if you judge all in a group by the behavior of
a few, then you should consider what this means.

You were the one implying as much. I never judged the entire group beyond the fact that they (you) put the root of the problem in power.

 

[columbus]

I liked Sanders, but again, the problem here is that the Democrats rejected him and his alternative ideas. This speaks volumes about just how intransigent and closed-minded so many of them are.

Speaking mainly for myself, but not only me, I didn't reject Sander's ideas. Some I thought over the top, but I really wanted his vision of the USA.
But I watched Obama get steamrolled by the people who really run this country. People like Trump lied about him with impunity, and blamed him for the outcome of the policies put in place by the Republicans. I wanted a vicious politico who had what it takes to implement some of those policies, even if not perfectly. Clinton fit that bill. (pun intended)
And obviously the American People agreed with me, check the election results for yourself if you want.
That's what "drives the Trump haters". The majority of the US electorate voted against his policies, so when he even tries to implement them he is taking on The People. And, yeah, some of us are pretty hateful about it.
Tom