What evidence for God

[outhouse]

This video gives evidence, I believe

evidence of what?????

 

[Pegg]

[youtube]hNhNxMnJSsQ[/youtube]

This video gives evidence, I believe

not enough time for evolution and too much information

great video, cheers.

 

[wilsoncole]

Commoner:

“2. The universe began to exist

Well, again you have the problem of the definition of "the universe".

You want a definition?
Here:
u·ni·verse [ynəvərs]
n.
1. all matter and energy in space: the totality of all matter and energy that exists in the vastness of space, whether known to human beings or not
2. the earth and humanity: the earth along with the human race and the totality of human experience.
Yes - it began to exist
What now?

Certainly it seems the matter and energy that we can observe and the physical laws that govern them now seem to have had a beginning in a point in the past. Does that mean "everything began"? Well, no, we've not been able to demonstrate that yet.”

Then take another look at the definition:
“ALL matter and energy in space: the totality of all matter and energy that exists in the vastness of space, whether known to human beings or not .”
What do you think is excluded?

I don't know - it's not my job to demonstrate it. It is the job of the person making the argument to demonstrate that it's valid.

Don't gimme that! What? Making up your own rules? When Michael Behe made his "irreducible complexity" argument, it was not up to him to prove its validity. It was his critics who sought to invalidate it.
nOW - Take another look at what you just said:
“Well, no, we've not been able to demonstrate that yet.”
So why should I demonstrate anything?

Apparently god had no beginning¸- according to the argument. So you're back to the same problem of the definition of "universe" or "world" that sometimes means everything and sometimes means something less than everything.

We were talking about the Cosmos, were we not? Don't try putting any gum in the works.

If it means everything than the same rules apply to any proposed god, if it doesn't then the premise that nothing comes from nothing has not been demonstrated.

What are you talking about? You are making no sense at all.
What's the alternative? You believe something comes from nothing, or are you just flapping your lips?
You are not saying anything. Arguing for its own sake. Want to use the word “Cosmos” instead? Means the same thing, only you can’t vacillate with this one.

Like I said, that depends on your definition of nothing.

When did you say that?

I can't think of a time before time existed, but the "nothing" that physicists describe isn't really "nothing" as we would use it colloquially.

What, exactly do they describe?

As is the case with so many other terms.

Stop wandering all over the universe. Let's deal with this one term - OK?
NOTHING:
Definition: 1. No thing; not anything: an indefinite pronoun indicating that there is not anything, not a single thing, or not a single part of a thing.
Will you stop playing with words? Do you agree that nothing comes from nothing? If you don’t please tell us why - OK?

No, it's pointless

What’s pointless?

since we're unable to even demonstrate that a cause exists.

You can do that quite easily. Here, I’ll show you:
“That’s a lovely cake! WHO made it?”
“That young man is a fine example. WHOSE son is he?”
“That boxer is really good. WHO trained him?”
A cause cannot be impersonal. There must be purpose behind the object involved.
Rocks have a purpose. Trees have a purpose. The wind has a purpose. The clouds have a purpose.
Show me something tangible that has no purpose.

So we could not possible demonstrate what the cause was before doing that first.

Who asked you for a demonstration of anything?


Show me something, anything, that has been made that has no cause.

Obviously that's impossible, since you've assumed the conclusion in your question.

What question, Sir?

Do you understand why that's not ok?

I wonder if you understand that I made a statement instead of asking a question.

It's like arguing my leg has been broken because I cannot show you a broken leg that hasn't been broken.

You lost me there, fella. Please elucidate.

My leg is fine, Wilson - that's the point. It is the same mistake the argument repeats a countless number of times - of assuming the conclusion in its premise.

Then why have you not taken the time to point out even one of those “mistakes?”
Now - go back and let’s do this again. This time, please point out the mistakes - OK? And make sure you use the word "Cosmos" this time.

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Wilson

 

[Commoner]

Show me something, anything, that has been made that has no cause.

If you cannot understand the logical misstep you've taken in making this challenge, then it's clear why you cannot see the logical fallacies in K's argument.

 

[wilsoncole]

If you cannot understand the logical misstep you've taken in making this challenge, then it's clear why you cannot see the logical fallacies in K's argument.

Dodge!

Like I said, point them out - if you can.
I often wonder why it is that the people with the most logic cannot learn how to avoid conflict and live in peace.


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Wilson

 

[outhouse]

If you cannot understand the logical misstep you've taken in making this challenge, then it's clear why you cannot see the logical fallacies in K's argument.

I told you he is not debatable

wont learn a dang thing

 

[outhouse]

not enough time for evolution and too much information

great video, cheers.

great video?

it was lies and quote mining darwin.

anyone who thinks evolution is wrong is just someone with a severe lack of education, nothing more.

the video was a waist of time and utter garbage.

 

[Juhur]

Short.

to the point.

 

[Commoner]

to the point.

Cats?

 

[Commoner]

Dodge!

Like I said, point them out - if you can.
I often wonder why it is that the people with the most logic cannot learn how to avoid conflict and live in peace.


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Wilson

I'm simply saying there is no way to move forward unless you recognize the logical fallacy in your challenge. If you cannot be resonable over something as basic as that I really can't believe you want to have an honest discussion.

 

[The Neo Nerd]

[youtube]hNhNxMnJSsQ[/youtube]

This video gives evidence, I believe

That guy makes me want to shave off my goatee

 

[Juhur]

Cats?

answers.

 

[Gloone]

That guy makes me want to shave off my goatee

lol.... I would too if I had one.

 

[wilsoncole]

I'm simply saying there is no way to move forward unless you recognize the logical fallacy in your challenge. If you cannot be resonable over something as basic as that I really can't believe you want to have an honest discussion.

Forget about MY challenge!
Let's go over your post again, only this time we'll insert the word "Cosmos.":

Dude are you serious?
I've already said this two, maybe more, times before.
1) The Universe (Cosmos) being created is an assumption because we don't know if it was created or not. There's that whole Universal Law of matter/energy not being created nor destroyed.

Now we know it was NOT an assumption because nothing comes from nothing - right?

2) We don't know the Universe (Cosmos) had a creator because we don't know the universe (Cosmos) was created. See above.

Now we do, because nothing comes from nothing.

3) We can't narrow it down that a diety is responsible for the creation of the universe (Cosmos) because, yet again, we don't know that the universe was created. Again, see above.

One can only "narrow things down" when one has choices. In this case, there is no choice! The Cosmos is something and nothing comes from nothing.

The Kalam argument fails greatly because it has the base assumption that the universe (Cosmos) is a creation and that the creator is an intelligent diety. Two Assumptions.
There, I've said it multiple times in this post alone.

Well, we've done away with the assumptions, worked our way down to the ONLY alternative, and arrived at An Intelligent Diety. He's been there all along, waiting for us to find Him.

“And you, Sol&#8242;o·mon my son, know the God of your father and serve him with a complete heart and with a delightful soul; for all hearts Jehovah is searching, and every inclination of the thoughts he is discerning. If you search for him, he will let himself be found by you; but if you leave him, he will cast you off forever.” (1 Chronicles 28:9)​

Evidence for God.

Ta daaaaaa!


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Wilson

 

[Commoner]

Forget about MY challenge!
Let's go over your post again, only this time we'll insert the word "Cosmos.":

I'll say it one more time - until you recognize the logical fallacy in your challenge, I will not continue with the discussion. It's your choice.

 

[Commoner]

answers.

Forty-two.

 

[Juhur]

Forty-two.

You gave up? failed to disprove me?

 

[wilsoncole]

I'll say it one more time - until you recognize the logical fallacy in your challenge, I will not continue with the discussion. It's your choice.

Whatever!

The next time you look in the mirror just think:
"God created me!"
At least you know we're not wacko when we say:
"In [the] beginning God created the heavens and the earth..............And God went on to say: “Let the waters swarm forth a swarm of living souls and let flying creatures fly over the earth upon the face of the expanse of the heavens.”
21 And God proceeded to create the great sea monsters and every living soul that moves about, which the waters swarmed forth according to their kinds, and every winged flying creature according to its kind. And God got to see that [it was] good. 22 With that God blessed them, saying: “Be fruitful and become many and fill the waters in the sea basins, and let the flying creatures become many in the earth.” 23 And there came to be evening and there came to be morning, a fifth day.

24​

And God went on to say: “Let the earth put forth living souls according to their kinds, domestic animal and moving animal and wild beast of the earth according to its kind.” And it came to be so.
25 And God proceeded to make the wild beast of the earth according to its kind and the domestic animal according to its kind and every moving animal of the ground according to its kind. And God got to see that [it was] good." (Genesis 1:1,20-25)

There really is substance to these words!

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&#12288;
Wilson

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[McBell]

Show me something, anything, that has been made that has no cause.

There isn't anything that has been made that has no cause.
In fact, the question as written is rather asinine.

It is like asking for proof of something that was created that has no creator.
It is nonsensical double speak.

 

[wilsoncole]

There isn't anything that has been made that has no cause.
In fact, the question as written is rather asinine.

It is like asking for proof of something that was created that has no creator.
It is nonsensical double speak.

OK - Don't get a self-inflicted wedgie!
Let's put it this way:
"Show me anything material that has no cause."

That better?
Now - see if you can.

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Wilson