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What God/Gods really are.

Nigel

Member
I can give you an explanation that explains God/s and the human condition. It is logical and supported by science, but I can not make you accept what I say.

Most of you will reject it because it challenges your comfortable illusion of a divine parent taking care of you.

I can even give the closest thing to actual divinity that we have, one that may even be conscious to some degree, but again most if you will reject the idea because you want to protect your own.

So for the purposes of this discussion try to empty your cup. Do not immediately get defensive, try to think about what I say as if you are a blank slate.

Imagine you are a in a natural state, before full consciousness. Your genetic intelligence, your instincts, the hard wired behavior that is passed down to you from your parents, determines how you operate.

Suddenly, you are conscious and you begin operating with nerve intelligence. Using your brain you start to make decisions on your own. Unfortunately your instincts, your genetic intelligence does not like that and tells you, that you are wrong, that you are not a good person. This makes you angry, you scream at the world, that you are a good person and you are going to prove it.

This makes it worse because now your instincts are telling you that you are bad for getting angry. This conflict between your genetic intelligence and your nerve intelligence is why humans are the way we are. We are angry and at war with ourselves. It is a psychological distress, a continuous cycle if anger hatred and guilt that causes us to do everything we can to prove ourselves wrong.

Ultimately when everything we try fails to fix how we feel, we become self destructive, hateful, violent or we avoid the issue through distractions.

On becoming conscious and determined to prove that we are good, we venture out into the world and realise that there is an order to things, a reverse entropy, a design into which we think we no longer fit.

We attribute this design to a higher intelligence, a divine parent. Then immediately believe ourselves to be unworthy of that parent as we are no longer part of the design. We cast ourselves out of Eden if you will.

This sets us up for more guilt, more self hate, more anger and the need to appease our divine parent with deeds and worship.

These internal conflicts are why selfishness, anger , hatred, conflict, violence , prejudice, exist in the world. It is what turned sex from something loving and beautiful into a shameful expression of the desire to kill innocence. It set up the conflict between man and women and created the need for god's. It is the root cause of the human condition.

However science has given us the answer , now that we know the reason we do the things we do. Now that we understand we are as subject to genetic memory as birds that fly north for the winter, we can relax, the war is over, we have a get out of jail free card.

Everything that you are fighting for, every thing that you do not like about yourself is caused by the internal conflict. Now that you understand the human condition there is no need to fight anymore. You can forgive yourself and everyone around you, because you understand why you/ they do what they do. Now you can get back to your natural state which is one of loving cooperation.

Where is the divine fit into all this? It is your conscience, the very thing you have been fighting with all this time.

Scientists discovered that by applying electricity to some base chemicals, they could make simple proteins, the building blocks of life. Making order out of chaos.

At some point in our distant past a similar thing probably hapened. Lightning literally sparked into being the basic building blocks of life. These early precursors were self organizing, capable of ever increasing complexity. Leading to the first genetic material and so on.

The earth on which we live is at its core basically a giant electric motor. Telluric currents run through the earth that can be measured at the earth's surface, like a heart beat.

Our brain has roughly 700 trillion connections. How many connections of conductive materials exist in the earth. How many connections exist between plants and the earth in which they grow. When you add to this the fact that the air is clearly conductive, how many animals are interacting with the electrical earth every day.

It is not a very large leap to think that this system has its own higher intelligence a sort of super consciousness. What if we are just the Earth experiencing itself?

I'll let you decide.
 
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Tabu

Active Member
We (BKs) believe that we all are souls and intrinsically good and all the negativity is from the external arising from body consciousness and the five vices .
The soul is an embodiment of peace , love , happiness , knowledge, power , mercy and bliss.
Once this is realized there is no conflict and we are at peace with ourselves and rest of the world, and see variation of opinions as the variation in journeys.
 

Nigel

Member
We (BKs) believe that we all are souls and intrinsically good

Wow thanks for your response it seems that Brahma Kumaris have a lot in common with the world transformation movement. Although we are a little younger. Interesting that similar conclusions are being drawn in different places at this time. Perhaps humanity will make it out of infancy after all.
 

Kirran

Premium Member
This seems to be an attempt to reduce everything to the physical, and find explanations for everything in the physical realm. I have always found that God is much greater than an emergent intelligence of the Earth.
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
Imagine you are a in a natural state, before full consciousness. Your genetic intelligence, your instincts, the hard wired behavior that is passed down to you from your parents, determines how you operate.
Wait for it ...

wait for it ...​

can it truly be ...​

yep: underwhelming born-again 1970s New Age Kool-Aid. :D
 

Nigel

Member
Wait for it
Goes back a bit further then that though, Plato and his cave etc. And this modern iteration is only 17 years old based on new discoveries made in genetics. But hay you think what you like its all g.

****edit****
 
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viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
I can give you an explanation that explains God/s and the human condition. It is logical and supported by science, but I can not make you accept what I say.

Most of you will reject it because it challenges your comfortable illusion of a divine parent taking care of you.

I can even give the closest thing to actual divinity that we have, one that may even be conscious to some degree, but again most if you will reject the idea because you want to protect your own.

So for the purposes of this discussion try to empty your cup. Do not immediately get defensive, try to think about what I say as if you are a blank slate.

Imagine you are a in a natural state, before full consciousness. Your genetic intelligence, your instincts, the hard wired behavior that is passed down to you from your parents, determines how you operate.

Suddenly, you are conscious and you begin operating with nerve intelligence. Using your brain you start to make decisions on your own. Unfortunately your instincts, your genetic intelligence does not like that and tells you, that you are wrong, that you are not a good person. This makes you angry, you scream at the world, that you are a good person and you are going to prove it.

This makes it worse because now your instincts are telling you that you are bad for getting angry. This conflict between your genetic intelligence and your nerve intelligence is why humans are the way we are. We are angry and at war with ourselves. It is a psychological distress, a continuous cycle if anger hatred and guilt that causes us to do everything we can to prove ourselves wrong.

Ultimately when everything we try fails to fix how we feel, we become self destructive, hateful, violent or we avoid the issue through distractions.

On becoming conscious and determined to prove that we are good, we venture out into the world and realise that there is an order to things, a reverse entropy, a design into which we think we no longer fit.

We attribute this design to a higher intelligence, a divine parent. Then immediately believe ourselves to be unworthy of that parent as we are no longer part of the design. We cast ourselves out of Eden if you will.

This sets us up for more guilt, more self hate, more anger and the need to appease our divine parent with deeds and worship.

These internal conflicts are why selfishness, anger , hatred, conflict, violence , prejudice, exist in the world. It is what turned sex from something loving and beautiful into a shameful expression of the desire to kill innocence. It set up the conflict between man and women and created the need for god's. It is the root cause of the human condition.

However science has given us the answer , now that we know the reason we do the things we do. Now that we understand we are as subject to genetic memory as birds that fly north for the winter, we can relax, the war is over, we have a get out of jail free card.

Everything that you are fighting for, every thing that you do not like about yourself is caused by the internal conflict. Now that you understand the human condition there is no need to fight anymore. You can forgive yourself and everyone around you, because you understand why you/ they do what they do. Now you can get back to your natural state which is one of loving cooperation.

Where is the divine fit into all this? It is your conscience, the very thing you have been fighting with all this time.

Scientists discovered that by applying electricity to some base chemicals, they could make simple proteins, the building blocks of life. Making order out of chaos.

At some point in our distant past a similar thing probably hapened. Lightning literally sparked into being the basic building blocks of life. These early precursors were self organizing, capable of ever increasing complexity. Leading to the first genetic material and so on.

The earth on which we live is at its core basically a giant electric motor. Telluric currents run through the earth that can be measured at the earth's surface, like a heart beat.

Our brain has roughly 700 trillion connections. How many connections of conductive materials exist in the earth. How many connections exist between plants and the earth in which they grow. When you add to this the fact that the air is clearly conductive, how many animals are interacting with the electrical earth every day.

It is not a very large leap to think that this system has its own higher intelligence a sort of super consciousness. What if we are just the Earth experiencing itself?

I'll let you decide.

For a better explanation of the human condition, please have a look at www.humancondition.com

Maybe. Just had a nice conversation with a leave of lettuce about geology. She is very smart, I tell you. She told me that earthquakes are not mean intended, they are actually burps that occur when earth ate too much.

Ciao

- viole
 
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Nigel

Member
Maybe. Just had a nice conversation with a leave of lettuce about geology. She is very smart, I tell you. She told me that earthquakes are actually burps that occur when earth ate too much.

Ciao

- viole

Maybe. Just had a nice conversation with a leave of lettuce about geology. She is very smart, I tell you. She told me that earthquakes are actually burps that occur when earth ate too much.

Ciao

- viole

Lol that's gold, wish I could talk to plants.
 

Guy Threepwood

Mighty Pirate
I can give you an explanation that explains God/s and the human condition. It is logical and supported by science, but I can not make you accept what I say.

Most of you will reject it because it challenges your comfortable illusion of a divine parent taking care of you.

I can even give the closest thing to actual divinity that we have, one that may even be conscious to some degree, but again most if you will reject the idea because you want to protect your own.

So for the purposes of this discussion try to empty your cup. Do not immediately get defensive, try to think about what I say as if you are a blank slate.

Imagine you are a in a natural state, before full consciousness. Your genetic intelligence, your instincts, the hard wired behavior that is passed down to you from your parents, determines how you operate.

Suddenly, you are conscious and you begin operating with nerve intelligence. Using your brain you start to make decisions on your own. Unfortunately your instincts, your genetic intelligence does not like that and tells you, that you are wrong, that you are not a good person. This makes you angry, you scream at the world, that you are a good person and you are going to prove it.

This makes it worse because now your instincts are telling you that you are bad for getting angry. This conflict between your genetic intelligence and your nerve intelligence is why humans are the way we are. We are angry and at war with ourselves. It is a psychological distress, a continuous cycle if anger hatred and guilt that causes us to do everything we can to prove ourselves wrong.

Ultimately when everything we try fails to fix how we feel, we become self destructive, hateful, violent or we avoid the issue through distractions.

On becoming conscious and determined to prove that we are good, we venture out into the world and realise that there is an order to things, a reverse entropy, a design into which we think we no longer fit.

We attribute this design to a higher intelligence, a divine parent. Then immediately believe ourselves to be unworthy of that parent as we are no longer part of the design. We cast ourselves out of Eden if you will.

This sets us up for more guilt, more self hate, more anger and the need to appease our divine parent with deeds and worship.

These internal conflicts are why selfishness, anger , hatred, conflict, violence , prejudice, exist in the world. It is what turned sex from something loving and beautiful into a shameful expression of the desire to kill innocence. It set up the conflict between man and women and created the need for god's. It is the root cause of the human condition.

However science has given us the answer , now that we know the reason we do the things we do. Now that we understand we are as subject to genetic memory as birds that fly north for the winter, we can relax, the war is over, we have a get out of jail free card.

Everything that you are fighting for, every thing that you do not like about yourself is caused by the internal conflict. Now that you understand the human condition there is no need to fight anymore. You can forgive yourself and everyone around you, because you understand why you/ they do what they do. Now you can get back to your natural state which is one of loving cooperation.

Where is the divine fit into all this? It is your conscience, the very thing you have been fighting with all this time.

Scientists discovered that by applying electricity to some base chemicals, they could make simple proteins, the building blocks of life. Making order out of chaos.

At some point in our distant past a similar thing probably hapened. Lightning literally sparked into being the basic building blocks of life. These early precursors were self organizing, capable of ever increasing complexity. Leading to the first genetic material and so on.

The earth on which we live is at its core basically a giant electric motor. Telluric currents run through the earth that can be measured at the earth's surface, like a heart beat.

Our brain has roughly 700 trillion connections. How many connections of conductive materials exist in the earth. How many connections exist between plants and the earth in which they grow. When you add to this the fact that the air is clearly conductive, how many animals are interacting with the electrical earth every day.

It is not a very large leap to think that this system has its own higher intelligence a sort of super consciousness. What if we are just the Earth experiencing itself?

I'll let you decide.

For a better explanation of the human condition, please have a look at www.humancondition.com

That's a pretty good summary of why atheism can be a comforting belief for many. If life is merely an accident, not a gift, we owe no debt of gratitude for it, there are no higher expectations on us for how we use that gift- I agree entirely with you here.

So you point out that being a skeptic of atheism, is not falling into 'wishful thinking' but rather facing and accepting the most likely reality based on what most of humanity concludes from the evidence around them, rather than an emotional perspective.

And I think that's why you see emotions generally running far higher on the atheist side on this forum.
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
It is not a very large leap to think that this system has its own higher intelligence a sort of super consciousness. What if we are just the Earth experiencing itself?

I'll let you decide.

Well, yeah, sure, I suppose anything is possible. Since humans have "intelligence" (such as it is), it would stand to reason that there may be other forms of intelligence or even a super consciousness, as you say. But as with anything, there's no reliable way of knowing for certain. Nor is there any indication about what we're supposed to do about it in our present state.

That's where most belief systems leave me. There's no reliable, provable method of knowing anything beyond what we have in front of us. Maybe there's all kinds of secrets behind a hidden door somewhere - who knows? All anyone can do is guess, no matter how elaborate or educated they might be - they're still just wild guesses.
 

Nigel

Member
I guess the point of the is earth sentient idea is that even if it isn't, she is our creator, she feeds us, clothes us and provides clean air to breathe, our mother in every sense of the word. Earth is our only god, yet we invent invisible men that live in the sky.
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
I guess the point of the is earth sentient idea is that even if it isn't, she is our creator, she feeds us, clothes us and provides clean air to breathe, our mother in every sense of the word. Earth is our only god, yet we invent invisible men that live in the sky.

Yeah, I get what you're saying, although related to that, I would also put in a few words for the Sun. After all, the Earth came from the Sun, so you could say that the Sun "created" the Earth. If that's true, then Sun Worshipers have been right all along. Without the Sun, there would be no life on Earth - or even any Earth at all.
 

fire

Member
I don't like the saying "God is in me" or "I am God".

This is so common amongst all the faithful. The so-called enlightened gurus just blatantly call themselves - 'God'..... while the humble Christians proclaim, "God is in me", and the leaders say, "I'm acting in gods name", even Jesus referred to himself as "I and the Father are one".

From my point of view.... this is a stupid claim to make..... why state the obvious, as though any other possibility even exists! It's like holding up a naked baby, and trying to impress everyone with your great wisdom and enlightenment by informing everyone.... "this is a baby".

We currently exist as matter created by God in a universe of matter, all created by...... try to guess..... THE CREATOR, that's right!

But why do we exist? Now that's something that's not so obvious, though there are numerous gurus/preachers/guessers, which all essentially are the same thing; people who analyze this illusory existence and extrapolate endlessly to conclude nonsense. It isn't possible to 'play' with the toys provided by this Creator/God and arrive at some sort of enlightening awareness or understanding that would lead one to the truth, that's part of game/experience/reality that was given us. This is why.... if we want the REAL TRUTH, it's going to require 'us' to - ASK in the name of God..... or whatever floats your boat, as long as it's an acknowledgment that.... YOU, are not the source! As long as pride or stupidity keeps us from asking, we will remain eternally trapped in samsara, as the Buddha proclaimed.

So, rather than stating the obvious, that in fact, "I am God", why not ask God, "what am I".... this question is the entire reason for this reality and life - to discover. - what we are!

Since we already know important things like - 'love' - have no physical tangible substance to them, yet the byproduct of love has more to do with all of humanity than any other item in existence.... so, consequently, what 'we' are that isn't God, must be some sort of (choice making essence).

So In the future, quit asking the toys for answers, they are essentially inanimate objects that cannot possibly lead to conclusions that are not already preprogrammed to keep the game in power, and you the puppet. There's nothing wrong with enquiring or importuning the Creator for guidance, but be aware, doing so got Jesus nailed to a cross; the game gets angry with dissenters.
 

Amleth

antitheist
I would essentially line-up with Kilgore.

***edit*** They arise naturally in our psyche for many reasons. They answer the metaphysical questions regarding our existence in a world they created. They assuage our existential fear of death with an offering of immortality. They provide a unifying communal structure which renders an advantage in a combative social environment. They are a resource for some few to gain power and control the many. I believe this type of view of the gods is in the ascendance, but I doubt that all of humanity will ever be able to let go of them.

Could there ever be religion (spiritual consciousness) without gods?
 
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