What godless means

[Revoltingest]

Apparently. Which is a shame, because I'm not much a fan of dogma. I'll have to stop believing in not believing, I guess.

Maybe we have sacred cartoons instead of sacred books?

 

[Estro Felino]

You are sure of things imagined.
This is the path to error.

I am disposed to speak of very aulic subject, here. High level.
I am sorry that it's all reduced to antinomies: black/white, theist/atheist, night/day.

 

[Revoltingest]

I am disposed to speak of very aulic subject, here. High level.
I am sorry that it's all reduced to antinomies: black/white, theist/atheist, night/day.

In English, please?

 

[Estro Felino]

In English, please?

I meant that atheists are very good people.
But being godless has nothing to do with atheism.

 

[Revoltingest]

I meant that atheists are very good people.

Some are.
Some aren't.

But being godless has nothing to do with atheism.

Still digging that hole deeper, eh.

 

[Estro Felino]

Still digging that hole deeper, eh.

I cannot change opinion just to agree with you.
It's my opinion.

 

[Revoltingest]

I cannot change opinion just to agree with you.
It's my opinion.

I know.

 

[ppp]

I cannot change opinion just to agree with you.
It's my opinion.

Yet another person attempting to use their opinion as justification for their opinion.

 

[Estro Felino]

Yet another person attempting to use their opinion as justification for their opinion.

In democracy all opinions have the same value.

 

[ppp]

In democracy all opinions have the same value.

Thank you for the expected non-sequitur.

 

[Yazata]

I need to define what godless means first :
godless means to believe in nothing. To believe life is meaningless. That this life is just pleasure, instinct, and that the fittest shall prevail.

That might describe me, I guess. I'm not convinced that reality has any message or plot, as if it was a movie or a novel. It just is.

Many atheists believe in something, which can be wisdom, art, creativity, fairness, cooperation, knowledge, justice, peace.
They pursue these things, and their life is filled with meaning.

Yes. I'm not an atheist (though I probably am in your sense) but I am inclined to think that whatever meaning and purpose our individual lives have (or our societies collectively) are meanings and purposes that we ourselves give them.

That being said, I don't believe that all meanings and purposes are equally valid or good. In my native San Francisco many people seem to believe that fentanyl gives them meaning and purpose, as they turn themselves into living zombies. (With the loving aid of a government which seems to favor them doing it by enabling it.)

In my own case, I guess that philosophy gives me meaning and purpose. My purpose is to try to penetrate the mysteries (in full knowledge that nobody has and that I never will). Others find their meaning and purpose in love and personal relationships. Others find it in art or adventure. Probably most people pursue some combination.

I'm not convinced that there is any objective truth to which one we should ideally choose, though the fentanyl example illustrates that some choices are more functional than others.

But godlessness is the rejection of all the positive values theists associate with deities.

Sociologists call that condition anomie. It's the erosion of any sense or morals and values, along with growing social alienation and breakdown of social bonds. My own opinion is that Western society is currently experiencing rapidly growing anomie, which explains everything from growing drug abuse, through skyrocketing crime, to angry and hostile political division, to the failure of schools to teach basics. It's social breakdown, pure and simple.

And trust me, there are theists who are godless, because they think religion is just a cultural figment.
So godless doesn't mean necessarily atheist.

I think that societies can only function if shared things that draw people together are stronger than the divisive forces that push them apart. That's true even if the cohesive forces are largely mythical. In the past, and in some parts of the world even today, religion played that role. Other places a common culture played that role, common language, traditions, assumptions and shared sense of identity, all shared with one's neighbors.

And I think that our contemporary sense of cultural unraveling is due to all those cohesive cultural elements being under relentless attack.

 

[Yazata]

In this thread, you both devalue the term "god" for theists and force the term "god" down atheists' throats. I see nothing productive in defining "godless" is such a fashion.

I think that there's value in thinking of 'God' as 'that which is highest', around which personal and collective life might be oriented to give individuals and societies a sense of purpose and meaning.

The problem then is identifying what is, or should be, highest. The theist would argue that the proper 'highest' is whatever deity/ies he/she believes in (or that deity's will, or something). An atheist scientist like Carl Sagan would argue that it's understanding the 'Cosmos'. (I'm inclined to agree with that one, more or less.) A mother might find her highest purpose in caring for her beloved family. For the street addict it's scoring more drugs and they will do anything, from assault to robbery, to make it happen.

As our societies break down, increasingly it's whatever I personally desire at this moment.

I'm not entirely sure if this is what Estro Felino had in mind, but I think that it can be enlightening to think of God and religion in this kind of larger sociological/psychological context.

 

[Revoltingest]

In democracy all opinions have the same value.

A way to consider word usage is to think of goals.
- What meaning do I want readers to infer?
- Does the word have connotations that could
cause misconstruing?
- Is the word emotionally charged, which could
derail one's theme?

This is better than picking a word, & in the face
of criticism, defending it to the death.

 

[Estro Felino]

A way to consider word usage is to think of goals.
- What meaning do I want readers to infer?
- Does the word have connotations that could
cause misconstruing?
- Is the word emotionally charged, which could
derail one's theme?

This is better than picking a word, & in the face
of criticism, defending it to the death.

Honestly I think language can be molded and shaped, in philosophy.
Philosophers invent so many words that become commonly used by the people.

 

[Revoltingest]

Honestly I think language can be molded and shaped, in philosophy.
Philosophers invent so many words that become commonly used by the people.

A non sequitur, eh.
Is your goal to be right about "godless"
or to communicate your views efficiently?

 

[Estro Felino]

A non sequitur, eh.
Is your goal to be right about "godless"
or to communicate your views efficiently?

I don't deny my usage of the word godless is emotionally charged.

But I don't present my opinion as the truth.
I posted the thread in the debate section, because I want people to reflect about this.
It's the Socratic method.

 

[Estro Felino]

That might describe me, I guess. I'm not convinced that reality has any message or plot, as if it was a movie or a novel. It just is.



Yes. I'm not an atheist (though I probably am in your sense) but I am inclined to think that whatever meaning and purpose our individual lives have (or our societies collectively) are meanings and purposes that we ourselves give them.

That being said, I don't believe that all meanings and purposes are equally valid or good. In my native San Francisco many people seem to believe that fentanyl gives them meaning and purpose, as they turn themselves into living zombies. (With the loving aid of a government which seems to favor them doing it by enabling it.)

In my own case, I guess that philosophy gives me meaning and purpose. My purpose is to try to penetrate the mysteries (in full knowledge that nobody has and that I never will). Others find their meaning and purpose in love and personal relationships. Others find it in art or adventure. Probably most people pursue some combination.

I'm not convinced that there is any objective truth to which one we should ideally choose, though the fentanyl example illustrates that some choices are more functional than others.



Sociologists call that condition anomie. It's the erosion of any sense or morals and values, along with growing social alienation and breakdown of social bonds. My own opinion is that Western society is currently experiencing rapidly growing anomie, which explains everything from growing drug abuse, through skyrocketing crime, to angry and hostile political division, to the failure of schools to teach basics. It's social breakdown, pure and simple.


I think that societies can only function if shared things that draw people together are stronger than the divisive forces that push them apart. That's true even if the cohesive forces are largely mythical. In the past, and in some parts of the world even today, religion played that role. Other places a common culture played that role, common language, traditions, assumptions and shared sense of identity, all shared with one's neighbors.

And I think that our contemporary sense of cultural unraveling is due to all those cohesive cultural elements being under relentless attack.

Beautifully said.
You perfectly understood the point of this thread.

 

[Trailblazer]

Transgenderism also exists in the animal kingdom. Such as with some lions.

Transgender is another example. It is part of a godless world, since this is based on technology advancements, by man and not natural evolution. One is not born this way at birth; DNA. It requires a lot of man made effort to finger with tech and meds, altering nature in his own image.

I don't think he was referring to transgenderism. I think he was referring to altering the gender one was born with using modern technological advancements.

Transgender is a general term that describes people whose gender identity, or their internal sense of being male, female, or something else, does not match the sex they were assigned at birth. By contrast, the term cisgender describes people whose gender identity aligns with the sex they were assigned at birth.

What Is Transgender?

Find out how gender identity is defined and what it means to be transgender.

www.webmd.com

 

[Trailblazer]

I'd rather put the focus on love of humanity rather than on God.

Me too.

 

[Trailblazer]

"Godlessness" triggers a hostile reaction to atheists for many theists.

"Godlessness" also triggers a hostile reaction to theists from many atheists.