What Happens When You Die?

[Robert.Evans]

What are you talking about? What 'first crucifixion'? And how is fractal the logos?

There is nothing new under the sun. What has been before will be again. What we see as physical consciousness has come from higher consciousness. Nothing is new. We are the end line of consciousness... the base level.
Thought works fractically... one leading to another.

So then how was the Ascension, which you claim 'brought about all things', possible?



How can that be? Blood and body emerged from the universe, not the other way around.

see above

So. Can you answer the question: how does the blood sacrifice of Jesus save man?

I have already told you. Flesh and blood cannot enter the kingdom of Heaven. What must be shed is what is one the outside. What is on the inside is what we are. He is the one that is without sin. We follow him as he is the way... once he has shed his blood. The shedding of divine blood is necessary for him to redeem himself, and thus doing, also us.
The body and blood must be shed as it is not of the purity of the One that it came from. Anything which is not of the One, the Source, will be shed, hence the body and blood.
Interestingly, it does not mention bones. Bones signify higher aeons of time and power and are the 'skeleton' of that which 'is' and that which 'will come'. But above that, there is not even a skeleton of that, merely conceptual ideas. The joining of the two, Origin and Image, is the culmination of the One, the bringing together of the two parts, separated for us.
As the highest part of Self, he gave his life so we could live. As everything is fractal, this also happens here in the physical realm. Each part of the Self that loses its outer part, returns to a higher part.
The highest is the One.
The blood has within it life. But life is life as we see it, not as it is. Thus we learn through this realm, but this is not the realm we wish to be a part of. That realm is without form. What wishes to return is 'that' which has been brought into existence without aid of a consort. It is pure and complete. It needs nothing, yet it is shaped through the physical processes that are within the higher consciousness until it is finally shaped here within the physical world as we see it.
We are perfected within the body and the blood. But once perfected, we must remove ourselves of such things, as they lead to death.
The body develops as this gives us life. But the life is only part of a process that is about completing or perfecting what we really are. That is within and is released upon death... hence the shedding of blood.
His blood shed is the way, as he did not enter this world through the lower realms as we did, but was pure.

 

[`mud]

I'll bet that He's still wearing those old sandals !
~
'mud

 

[godnotgod]

There is nothing new under the sun. What has been before will be again. What we see as physical consciousness has come from higher consciousness. Nothing is new. We are the end line of consciousness... the base level.
Thought works fractically... one leading to another.

So what does the cyclical nature of the universe have to do with the Crucifixion? There was only one issue of The Crucifixion, in Christian terms, that is.

I think you mean 'fractally'; not 'fractically', but it is a poor analogy, as fractals signify repetitive patterns, not sequential patterns.

see above

Not making any sense at all.

I have already told you. Flesh and blood cannot enter the kingdom of Heaven. What must be shed is what is one the outside. What is on the inside is what we are. He is the one that is without sin. We follow him as he is the way... once he has shed his blood. The shedding of divine blood is necessary for him to redeem himself, and thus doing, also us.
The body and blood must be shed as it is not of the purity of the One that it came from. Anything which is not of the One, the Source, will be shed, hence the body and blood.
Interestingly, it does not mention bones. Bones signify higher aeons of time and power and are the 'skeleton' of that which 'is' and that which 'will come'. But above that, there is not even a skeleton of that, merely conceptual ideas. The joining of the two, Origin and Image, is the culmination of the One, the bringing together of the two parts, separated for us.
As the highest part of Self, he gave his life so we could live. As everything is fractal, this also happens here in the physical realm. Each part of the Self that loses its outer part, returns to a higher part.
The highest is the One.
The blood has within it life. But life is life as we see it, not as it is. Thus we learn through this realm, but this is not the realm we wish to be a part of. That realm is without form. What wishes to return is 'that' which has been brought into existence without aid of a consort. It is pure and complete. It needs nothing, yet it is shaped through the physical processes that are within the higher consciousness until it is finally shaped here within the physical world as we see it.
We are perfected within the body and the blood. But once perfected, we must remove ourselves of such things, as they lead to death.
The body develops as this gives us life. But the life is only part of a process that is about completing or perfecting what we really are. That is within and is released upon death... hence the shedding of blood.
His blood shed is the way, as he did not enter this world through the lower realms as we did, but was pure.

Except that the Kingdom of Heaven is already in the flesh, as Yeshu told you:

"The Kingdom of God is within you"

Apparently, God saw man's flesh pure enough to dwell within it even before man was born. Where you have it wrong is that you paint a picture of Jesus as one of a kind, wherein the gifts of the Incarnation are exclusive to the historical Jesus alone. Fact of the matter is that the gifts of the Incarnation are given to all apriori, without man having to ask. The little light of the mystic Yeshua shines through amidst the heap of false Roman blood sacrificial doctrine as he points us to where to find those gifts. Herein lies the crucial difference between orthodox Christian doctrine and the mystical view. Only in the Abrahamic traditions do we find this split between man and the divine nature, where the 'supernatural' has dominion over the natural world. The mystical view, which encompasses Zen, Yoga, Sufism, Gnosticism, Essenism, Kabbalism, Taoism, etc, all are about spiritual union with the divine nature within. And only in orthodox Christianity do we find an ascending god man into a celestial Heaven, replete with flesh and blood.

Your reply still does not address the question:

How does the shedding of divine blood save man from eternal damnation? If the gifts of the Incarnation are readily available to all men without our having to ask for them, then we are already saved. All that is required is that we learn how to use those gifts in THIS world, which is the ONLY world we know of. The rest is all fluff and conjecture.

No bloody pagan sacrifices necessary. In fact, the whole idea of the Crucifixion was that God himself had to incarnate as the only worthy and pure sacrificial host who had the power to reopen the Gates of Paradise which Adam and Eve closed with Original Sin. But the problem with this scenario is that it signifies conditional love, which is not the love of the divine nature. The love of the divine nature, if it be the purest kind of love that can be, is Unconditional Love, and demands no payment in return, no bloody superstitious pagan sacrfice. IOW, the entire story of Adam and Eve is a sham. A real God would simply have realized his own mistake and forgiven his children wholeheartedly.

How clever of God to dwell within us all, and within all things.

 

[godnotgod]

I'll bet that He's still wearing those old sandals !
~
'mud

You better believe it! Why, a bevy of no less than 500 (count'em) eyewitnesses can testify to that fact! Yep! Jeezuz ascended into the clouds body and sole...er...soul, and some say he was hell bent 'fer leather gittin' thar. Those holy sandals were imprinted forever on the minds of those eyewitnesses, and a handful of those same eyewitnesses claim that, if one were to look very, very closely, one would have seen the words on the soles of those very sandals: "I'll be back!"...or was that?....oh, never mind...

 

[Robert.Evans]

So what does the cyclical nature of the universe have to do with the Crucifixion? There was only one issue of The Crucifixion, in Christian terms, that is.

It happens within higher-consciousness first, ever before the world began

I think you mean 'fractally'; not 'fractically', but it is a poor analogy, as fractals signify repetitive patterns, not sequential patterns.

Sorry, fractally, yes... haha. All things come from something that has happened earlier, and repeats what it is, even though in error.

Except that the Kingdom of Heaven is already in the flesh, as Yeshu told you:

"The Kingdom of God is within you"

The answer is always within. Good point.

Apparently, God saw man's flesh pure enough to dwell within it even before man was born. Where you have it wrong is that you paint a picture of Jesus as one of a kind, wherein the gifts of the Incarnation are exclusive to the historical Jesus alone. Fact of the matter is that the gifts of the Incarnation are given to all apriori, without man having to ask. The little light of the mystic Yeshua shines through amidst the heap of false Roman blood sacrificial doctrine as he points us to where to find those gifts. Herein lies the crucial difference between orthodox Christian doctrine and the mystical view. Only in the Abrahamic traditions do we find this split between man and the divine nature, where the 'supernatural' has dominion over the natural world. The mystical view, which encompasses Zen, Yoga, Sufism, Gnosticism, Essenism, Kabbalism, Taoism, etc, all are about spiritual union with the divine nature within. And only in orthodox Christianity do we find an ascending god man into a celestial Heaven, replete with flesh and blood.

Your reply still does not address the question:

How does the shedding of divine blood save man from eternal damnation? If the gifts of the Incarnation are readily available to all men without our having to ask for them, then we are already saved. All that is required is that we learn how to use those gifts in THIS world, which is the ONLY world we know of. The rest is all fluff and conjecture.

No bloody pagan sacrifices necessary. In fact, the whole idea of the Crucifixion was that God himself had to incarnate as the only worthy and pure sacrificial host who had the power to reopen the Gates of Paradise which Adam and Eve closed with Original Sin. But the problem with this scenario is that it signifies conditional love, which is not the love of the divine nature. The love of the divine nature, if it be the purest kind of love that can be, is Unconditional Love, and demands no payment in return, no bloody superstitious pagan sacrfice. IOW, the entire story of Adam and Eve is a sham. A real God would simply have realized his own mistake and forgiven his children wholeheartedly.

How clever of God to dwell within us all, and within all things.

He is the door though. No one can walk through without seeing the door, and the door is not visible without the light. So wthin you or not, you will not follow what you cannot see... hence 'see the light.'
Adam and Chavvah are within higher-consciousness. The story of Adam and Eve are a man and woman in a land, and will be in many places.

The question is answered. He is the One. There is no other. He had to die here to replicate what had gone before. Scripture had to be fulfilled. Only He was Pure... no other.

 

[godnotgod]

It happens within higher-consciousness first, ever before the world began

Where? When? Crucifixion took place in Higher Consciousness? Sorry, but that is an oxymoron.

He is the door though. No one can walk through without seeing the door, and the door is not visible without the light. So wthin you or not, you will not follow what you cannot see... hence 'see the light.'

The question is answered. He is the One. There is no other. He had to die here to replicate what had gone before. Scripture had to be fulfilled. Only He was Pure... no other.

Again, you misinterpret Jesus as the only one who can receive the gifts of the Incarnation. He himself pointed to the kingdom of God within everyone, a leftover snippet that survived the Roman onslaught against the Nazarenes.

You also continue to spit reality into a dualistic view, via your description of 'pure' vs 'impure', the implication being that spirit is pure, while the flesh and blood is impure. If that were the case, the spirit would not have decided to indwell in all men's fleshy bodies.

There is no door through which one passes into the light, nor anyone who passes through. We already ARE that light. The notion of a seeking self passing through a door is an illusion.

"That which you are seeking is causing you to seek"
Zen source

and....

"Tas tvam asi"
("Thou art That")

 

[Robert.Evans]

Where? When? Crucifixion took place in Higher Consciousness? Sorry, but that is an oxymoron.



Again, you misinterpret Jesus as the only one who can receive the gifts of the Incarnation. He himself pointed to the kingdom of God within everyone, a leftover snippet that survived the Roman onslaught against the Nazarenes.

You also continue to spit reality into a dualistic view, via your description of 'pure' vs 'impure', the implication being that spirit is pure, while the flesh and blood is impure. If that were the case, the spirit would not have decided to indwell in all men's fleshy bodies.

There is no door through which one passes into the light, nor anyone who passes through. We already ARE that light. The notion of a seeking self passing through a door is an illusion.

"That which you are seeking is causing you to seek"
Zen source

and....

"Tas tvam asi"
("Thou art That")

You are saying then that there is not good and evil?

 

[Gnostic Seeker]

Well, since the gods don't really care about human pettiness and our conceptions of good we all go into a similar state at death the Greeks simply called Hades. I couldn't begin to describe this state in any literal terms, as I've not yet experienced it for starters. I doubt Elysium, the fields of Asphodel, etc. are literally as the myths describe.

 

[godnotgod]

You are saying then that there is not good and evil?

There is, but they are complimentary, and not in opposition, as morality would have it. Good exists because of Evil, and vice versa.

​

'When a concept of The Good is created, a concept of Evil has also automatically been created. Because of the dictates of The Good, it must now oppose Evil. In opposing Evil, it only makes Evil stronger. Therefore, the sage never tries to do moral Good."
from the Chinese

This is the realm of relative Good and relative Evil. But there exists a state transcendent of both, which is the Absolute Good, and for which there is no opposite;

“the which than which there is no whicher."

 

[Robert.Evans]

There is, but they are complimentary, and not in opposition, as morality would have it. Good exists because of Evil, and vice versa.

​

'When a concept of The Good is created, a concept of Evil has also automatically been created. Because of the dictates of The Good, it must now oppose Evil. In opposing Evil, it only makes Evil stronger. Therefore, the sage never tries to do moral Good."
from the Chinese

This is the realm of relative Good and relative Evil. But there exists a state transcendent of both, which is the Absolute Good, and for which no opposite exists,

“the which than which there is no whicher."

No problem.

 

[Thief]

Problem...did God create evil?....or was evil self creating and God not in control of it?

FIND OUT!.....WHEN 'YOU' DIE!

 

[Bunyip]

Problem...did God create evil?....or was evil self creating and God not in control of it?

FIND OUT!.....WHEN 'YOU' DIE!

So you believe that god is not omnipotent, omniscient or infallible?

 

[`mud]

I find it somewhat curious that this supposed 'God' would create an adversary.
And send it out into the new found Eden, to entice the newfound populace of two, to violate a law that he just invented.
All because of a fig, apple, or whatever ! The purpose of this was to gain knowledge, or just dis-obey his laws ?
And then after this fisacle, he allows this evil invention to invade all further peoples of earth,
creating a cauldren of formentful happenstance into which he could find fault to punish for !!!
Cheeeeesssss...the more I write the more pissssed a get, pure nonsense.
Any way...I had my little rant...it's all yours !
~
'mud

 

[Thief]

So you believe that god is not omnipotent, omniscient or infallible?

I use the term....Almighty.
As for things that seem outside of His control......all in good time.....all in good time.....

When you have the power of creation....nothing can resist when the hour comes and you decide not to allow the deviation any longer.
Having the ability of eternal life....and death will not overwhelm....
He fears no one.
Time does not exist.
So.....all in good 'time'....

 

[Thief]

I find it somewhat curious that this supposed 'God' would create an adversary.
And send it out into the new found Eden, to entice the newfound populace of two, to violate a law that he just invented.
All because of a fig, apple, or whatever ! The purpose of this was to gain knowledge, or just dis-obey his laws ?
And then after this fisacle, he allows this evil invention to invade all further peoples of earth,
creating a cauldren of formentful happenstance into which he could find fault to punish for !!!
Cheeeeesssss...the more I write the more pissssed a get, pure nonsense.
Any way...I had my little rant...it's all yours !
~
'mud

Step back from the incident.

If what you want is a spirit of freewill....but it obeys every word you speak....
How then to say it has a mind of it's own?

Give it a choice....and see what it does.
The choice was to know and die....or leave the choice behind.

Man was intended to be a creature having curiosity in spite of a potential death.
We are that creature.
We seek to know.....even as death is pending.

It was not a point of fail.
The alteration made unto Man had taken hold.

 

[godnotgod]

I find it somewhat curious that this supposed 'God' would create an adversary.
And send it out into the new found Eden, to entice the newfound populace of two, to violate a law that he just invented.
All because of a fig, apple, or whatever ! The purpose of this was to gain knowledge, or just dis-obey his laws ?
And then after this fisacle, he allows this evil invention to invade all further peoples of earth,
creating a cauldren of formentful happenstance into which he could find fault to punish for !!!
Cheeeeesssss...the more I write the more pissssed a get, pure nonsense.
Any way...I had my little rant...it's all yours !
~
'mud

I hear you, mudd, and can't blame you one bit. But don't believe it. That story is the version corrupted by the priests in order to extract tribute from their congregations via fear of hell and eternal punishment. The priests acted as go betweens to insure those who paid up a place in heaven.

There are at least a couple other versions of the story.


Version 1> God tells his children NOT to eat of the Forbidden Fruit, and then goes away. Then he reappears to them as a serpent to insure that they DO eat of the Fruit! You see, the Forbidden Fruit is a symbol of Higher Consciousness, and God is setting up a piece de resistance, a taboo, which, of course, will be broken, which is exactly what God wants. Why? Because this is the gift from God to his children of Divine Union. The taboo is merely a device that acts like a koan, setting a tension, and then transforming the ordinary mind into God consciousness. Here, there is no sin and no Boogey Man, as the orthodox version has it, Only Pure Joy is achieved and a good time is had by all. \

This I believe is the original allegory, probably from Persia or Mesopotamia.

Then there is the Tantric version, wherein Agape uses Eros to gain Divine Union:

Version 2>
"Every time a man and woman make love, they reenact the myth of Shiva and Shakti who, by their Tantric union, conceive and give birth to the universe. Since we are children of the West, I would like to present a positive, ecstatic version of the myth that plagued us with original sin. To do this we have to go straight to the root of the problem: our sexuality. In your mind, imagine Adam and Eve in Paradise, sitting naked under the Tree of Knowledge , kissing….

Adam and Eve are becoming aroused, and Adam wants to make love. Eve hesitates, She says to Adam, "I'd like to be different, more spiritual this time." Adam is confused. "I am not sure I know how."

Eve says, "Me neither. Let's ask God to help us." She calls God in prayer:"Dear God, be with us in our joining and bring us your blessings that we may experience your divine light and become one with you. Thank you for giving us Paradise."

Now there is a great Ssssweeesh!in the leaves of the tree above their heads. And a great big sexy slinky boa constrictor slowly slides down to them holding a shiny red apple between his/her fangs. Eve gently stretches her hands out to receive the apple and thanks him/her. Holding the juicy sweet apple in her right hand, she settles her naked body on Adam's lap, nestling his erection against her round , smooth belly. They begin to sway their pelvises against each other, kissing passionately. Adam slides his tongue into Eve's mouth. She sucks his tongue, licks his lips and pulls away to take a bit of the apple. Then she slides the juicy bite into his mouth and then suck and chew on it together while his Vajra gently penetrates her Yoni. A shudder of delight ripples through her spine as she takes another bite, shares it. Then another and another, while they make love.

The juice of God's apple oozes from their mouth onto their bodies, as the juice of her Yoni drenches his Vajra. Their excitement rises with each bite until they can hold it no longer and she cries, "Now, oh yes, Adam come, oh dear God…." And at that very moment God comes in the form of a great white light, filling their mind, their third eye, their entire body with bliss. And they hear this whisper," I am the Holy Spirit and ye are my children, in whom I am well pleased. Be you blessed for the father and mother have united you and through you they will now bring forth healing to the earth, that She may always be honored as our Mother."

And from that moment Adam and Eve exist within each of us as the original man and woman, father and mother. Through them we need to acknowledge our inner male and female components as archetypes of the God and Goddess, images of our dual nature fulfilled in the creative and spiritual dimensions. In every relationship and act of love, women and men are seeking the union of their inner male and female, their own divine wholeness. Yet we achieve union not through an outer lover, but by uniting these inner and female archetypes in our own psyches. Ultimately, the key to ecstasy, inner peace .tribal peace and world peace is our own individual wholeness"

From The Art of Everyday Ecstasy by Margot Anand

A Tantric Perspective on the myth of Adam and Eve - tribe.net

 

[Thief]

What was that about?....corruption?

 

[godnotgod]

What was that about?....corruption?

The orthodox story handed down to us is a corruption of the original. The original is the story of Divine Union of man to the essence of God. The corrupted version we all have been brought up with is the story of man's Disobedience to The Law and Separation from the Divine Essence. Divine Union only occurs after much human misery and only after death. The original version achieves Divine Union in the Here and Now. The orthodox version is called 'The Long Way Home'

 

[Thief]

Not buying that.
Man was made to be a unique spirit.
As a species Day Six.
The Garden event was an alteration.

It's really very simple.

 

[godnotgod]

Not buying that.
Man was made to be a unique spirit.
As a species Day Six.
The Garden event was an alteration.

It's really very simple.

Dogma is always 'very simple': believe or else. I'm just telling you what the story says. Are you not aware of how the priests manipulated their congregations via fear in order to extract monies from them, or are you that naive? There was no 'Garden Event'. That was all twisted from the original story.