What Happens When You Die?

[godnotgod]

It is a necessity for a perceiver to exist if there is a perception.
Actions don't occur without actors.

...and that is exactly what the ego is...an actor..a fake.

You are walking down a path at dusk and the wind is blowing. Suddenly, you see, out of the corner of your eye, a snake writhing on the ground. You immediately recoil, but then realize shortly afterward that it was only a rope moving in the wind. Where is the perceiver? "I" only came into the picture once the incident was over. It re-invents itself from moment to moment, so that you only THINK it is real. "I was frightened by what I thought to be a snake". But there was no "I" that was frightened; there was only pure fright. The illusory "I" came later, once the emotion of the incident subsided.

Without a society, we would still identify ourselves as a separated ego acting upon the world. This is natural to us. It is part of our process of cognitive development. Otherwise we would be philosophical zombies.

That is what your indoctrination has convinced you of, but to the contrary, it is absolutely NOT natural to us. What is natural to us is a world with which we are totally integrated and dependent upon, a society that is co-operative, instead of competitive.

Don't you remember the Social Contract Theory, and why men created it? It is an artificial restraint against man's abusive tendencies for violating each other's human rights, fueled by greed and competition, both products of the false ego acting upon the world.

Zombies? heh..heh..heh...what do you suppose we have now?

So called "civilized man" is nothing more than a big monkey playing with big, dangerous toys, while convinced that he is superior, intelligent, and sophisticated. Nothing could be further from the truth, considering the pickle we now find ourselves in.

 

[Thief]

An illusion understood as such can only be known via Reality. Your problem is that you think the illusion is real. It isn't. It's an illusion, but you can't accept that. Too bad. You're missing out on the magic show.

I once asked you what makes you think all of this is real, and you never answered.

I've already explained my position, several times.

And if you insist that all is illusion then you have no claim to reality.
Not at all.

 

[Koldo]

...and that is exactly what the ego is...an actor..a fake.

You are walking down a path at dusk and the wind is blowing. Suddenly, you see, out of the corner of your eye, a snake writhing on the ground. You immediately recoil, but then realize shortly afterward that it was only a rope moving in the wind. Where is the perceiver? "I" only came into the picture once the incident was over. It re-invents itself from moment to moment, so that you only THINK it is real. "I was frightened by what I thought to be a snake". But there was no "I" that was frightened; there was only pure fright. The illusory "I" came later, once the emotion of the incident subsided.

You are confusing form with content. Words are used to represent meaning.
The letter 'I' represents the 'I'. Language needs not be present for 'I' to exist.

That is what your indoctrination has convinced you of, but to the contrary, it is absolutely NOT natural to us. What is natural to us is a world with which we are totally integrated and dependent upon, a society that is co-operative, instead of competitive.

Don't you remember the Social Contract Theory, and why men created it? It is an artificial restraint against man's abusive tendencies for violating each other's human rights, fueled by greed and competition, both products of the false ego acting upon the world.

There can be no integration nor co-operation if we are not separated.
Who's interacting otherwise? There is no co-operation nor integration without without at least two individuals.

Whether a co-operative society is natural to us is another matter entirely. The society is naturaly shaped by human hands, so i don't think applying the word 'natural' to our societies is useful at all.

Zombies? heh..heh..heh...what do you suppose we have now?

So called "civilized man" is nothing more than a big monkey playing with big, dangerous toys, while convinced that he is superior, intelligent, and sophisticated. Nothing could be further from the truth, considering the pickle we now find ourselves in.

Are you aware of what a philosophical zombie is?

 

[atanu]

What is the true nature of 'I'?
And what do you mean by 'true'? If there is a 'true nature', there is/are false nature(s). Why are they false?

It is to be enquired and the source of the "I" to be dug out. Else, the words probably may mean nothing. As per my experience and understanding, the "I" is the property of the whole and not of the individual, which merely filters the universal and makes it a bit particular.

What is the impersonal?

Impersonal is the attributeless indescribable fullness.

 

[atanu]

There can be no integration nor co-operation if we are not separated. ?

Actually, I do not fully agree. An ocean is one. But the waves can interact yet each wave is reality is ocean only.

What is true can never become untrue. What is untrue can never become true. What is existing in you and me never can become non-existent. And what will be non-existent tommorrow, actually does not exist even at present.

 

[Koldo]

It is to be enquired and the source of the "I" to be dug out. Else, the words probably may mean nothing. As per my experience and understanding, the "I" is the property of the whole and not of the individual, which merely filters the universal and makes it a bit particular.

Please do further elaborate.

Impersonal is the attributeless indescribable fullness.

Isn't that the 'nothing'?

 

[atanu]

Please do further elaborate.

Isn't that the 'nothing'?

Are we 'nothing' in deep sleep?

 

[Koldo]

Are we 'nothing' in deep sleep?

Are we attributeless and indescribable in deep sleep?

 

[atanu]

Are we attributeless and indescribable in deep sleep?

To our awareness we are. In dream state, the same apparent 'nothing' or 'no thing' yields things.

 

[Thief]

To our awareness we are. In dream state, the same apparent 'nothing' or 'no thing' yields things.

I believe...in death we enter our dreams.....and they are shared!

What if your dreams can be invaded?!!!!!

And they will be!

In death.... we do not dream alone.

 

[godnotgod]

Are we attributeless and indescribable in deep sleep?

“We live in illusion and the appearance of things. There is a reality. We are that reality. When you understand this, you see that you are nothing, and being nothing, you are everything. That is all.”

Kalu Rinpoche
*******
"Everything comes out of nothing"
Alan Watts

 

[godnotgod]

You are confusing form with content. Words are used to represent meaning.
The letter 'I' represents the 'I'. Language needs not be present for 'I' to exist.

"I" exists by virtue of thought. It does not exist when not thinking about it. Someday you will learn to sneak up on it and actually see it creating itself. Be alert.

There can be no integration nor co-operation if we are not separated.
Who's interacting otherwise? There is no co-operation nor integration without without at least two individuals.

Integration and cooperation do not require an agent of integration or cooperation. There is just the act of integration and cooperation. That is all. When integration and cooperation occur, people just work together. Human tendency is toward social behavior, and if that is to work, there must be integration/cooperation. But it is necessary to SEE that this is desirable, and to see this, one is in the right frame of mind. Those ruled by greed and selfishness do not see cooperation as desirable; they see separation, competition and rugged individualism as a goal a la Ayn Rand.

Whether a co-operative society is natural to us is another matter entirely. The society is naturaly shaped by human hands, so i don't think applying the word 'natural' to our societies is useful at all.

I am using the word 'natural' to reflect a state of mind that is our originally-occurring state, and not that of social indoctrination and a superimposed morality that includes a system of Reward and Punishment.

 

[atanu]

"I" exists by virtue of thought. It does not exist when not thinking about it. Someday you will learn to sneak up on it and actually see it creating itself. Be alert.-

I differ marginally, recognising that differences never end.

The thought "I" arises in the fullness, and it is not without a reality. According to Vedanta, the very nature of Brahman is existence, intelligence and Bliss. I am of the opinion that attempts of many to ignore the very nature of reality is bound to be an error. While existing, I cannot say that I do not exist. While existing as an aware being I cannot say that my awareness is arisen of inert things.

The names-forms are impermanent. But existence is not. The "I" is a manifestation of the nature of reality.

 

[HeatherHeart]

We are dust, and unto dust we shall return is another way of putting it. He is speaking of both the infinity and the finality of life. The great paradox that in order to live, you must die, but in dying, you live far more than you ever do it life.

I don't agree with any Eastern philosophies or principles because I feel they are false, however I do agree that you can be reincarnated. It is basically your soul needing to learn something in a different life (or do), in another (like the prophet Elijah being reincarnated from John the Baptist). I do notice how easily Deepak sidesteps the question of wheter he believes in Heaven or Hell. Ignorance is not bliss! It exists whether you believe in it or not. And ignorance of the truth DEFINITELY does not make you saved or innocent!!

 

[atanu]

-- I do notice how easily Deepak sidesteps the question of wheter he believes in Heaven or Hell. Ignorance is not bliss! It exists whether you believe in it or not. And ignorance of the truth DEFINITELY does not make you saved or innocent!!

I am not a follower of Deepak. But have you seen heaven or hell? How easy it is for you to attribute ignorance to another person just based on what you merely believe?

 

[godnotgod]

I don't agree with any Eastern philosophies or principles because I feel they are false...

Or is it that you 'feel' they are false because you don't agree with them due to your complete immersion in Christian dogma?

In other words, you're in lockstep as dictated by your religious doctrine, and merely parrot what you have been indoctrinated with, without any real understanding.

Otherwise, perhaps you would care to reveal a reason WHY you don't find any validity in any Eastern view?

(BTW, does'nt the fact that you discard them wholesale tell you something about yourself?)

 

[godnotgod]

I am not a follower of Deepak. But have you seen heaven or hell? How easy it is for you to attribute ignorance to another person just based on what you merely believe?

In psychological terms, it's called Projection of Shadow onto another. It is a means of making your Persona look good by making others look bad. Just another game the ego plays in its insatiable thirst for gratification.

 

[godnotgod]

I differ marginally, recognising that differences never end.

The thought "I" arises in the fullness, and it is not without a reality. According to Vedanta, the very nature of Brahman is existence, intelligence and Bliss. I am of the opinion that attempts of many to ignore the very nature of reality is bound to be an error. While existing, I cannot say that I do not exist. While existing as an aware being I cannot say that my awareness is arisen of inert things.

The names-forms are impermanent. But existence is not. The "I" is a manifestation of the nature of reality.

Are you referring to Authentic Self, or egoic self?

How is it possible for Brahman to become an entity that makes the error of ignoring the very nature of reality?

Is it the school of Vedanta that also states that the godhead becomes lost in its own maya, in its own dream, to manifest as a character lost in Identification?

My thought on how "I" arises is that the mind, which is always attempting to conceptualize reality, takes memories, experiences, and characteristics and blends them together to think of them as an enduring, static entity it calls "I". It is a frozen view of reality, just as falsely thinking an ocean wave as something real.

 

[atanu]

Are you referring to Authentic Self, or egoic self?

How is it possible for Brahman to become an entity that makes the error of ignoring the very nature of reality?

Is it the school of Vedanta that also states that the godhead becomes lost in its own maya, in its own dream, to manifest as a character lost in Identification?

My thought on how "I" arises is that the mind, which is always attempting to conceptualize reality, takes memories, experiences, and characteristics and blends them together to think of them as an enduring, static entity it calls "I". It is a frozen view of reality, just as falsely thinking an ocean wave as something real.

Ocean waves are built upon the ocean that has the "I am" awareness. Not the ego. In Hinduism, the ego "i" is called chidAbhAsha (reflected consciousness). If there was no single unborn prakriti and the manifest Brahman asserting "I Am", there would be no reflected "i"-s.

If there is no moon then there will not be many images on many poodles of water.



It is through the consciousness that is real that one crosses over.

 

[Koldo]

To our awareness we are. In dream state, the same apparent 'nothing' or 'no thing' yields things.

In my dream state, I am still an individual.