What Happens When You Die?

[St Giordano Bruno]

"God did not create the universe he became the universe"

I have the say that is far removed from the traditional Abrahamic or Biblical definition of God. That makes the Biblical definition of God look far closer the Pagan Gods they replaced than Chopra's view which I can scarcely recognize as a God at all. So God has only survived through that concepts ambiguity over the centuries which have adapted to fit increasingly rational thought. Chopra's definition of "God" God being just a mere synonym of the universe with its emergent consciousness can be undifferentiated to my definition of God which is the pantheist view or the God of Carl Sagan. It makes that Christian's definition look my like the personal pagan God's such as Zeus or Odin. Except I do not call it God, because that not only confuses others but just confuses me and instead bestow it to its proper name "the universe" "the cosmos" or nature.

 

[InsurgoInsurgiInsurrect]

Why do you pit mysticism against science? That is senseless. Mysticism cannot do what science can, and vice versa. Mysticism reveals the true nature of reality, something science is incapable of doing due to the very nature of its approach. While there is no doubt about the effectiveness of applied science, what good is it if you are perfectly healthy but do not know yourself.

Curious ideas you have about Mysticism.

Mysticism - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

How does Mysticism revel the true nature of reality? Why does one need mysticism to know who they are?

 

[godnotgod]

Curious ideas you have about Mysticism.

Mysticism - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

How does Mysticism revel the true nature of reality? Why does one need mysticism to know who they are?

You don't need anything to know who you are, other than to see into the nature of Reality itself within, as a means of attaining Divine Union.
Doing so is considered mystical awareness. The Divine Nature within is the true nature of Reality itself.


​

 

[atanu]

How is it that the OTHER foot is?

The other three are the dreams. But the dreams must be known, else what will be the fun?

I am referring to the false self creating the concepts of "I" and "me", and not to the authentic Self.

I understand. I agree with you fully. I am playing Devil's advocate.

 

[godnotgod]

I
What do you call spontaneous seeing?

pondfrogleapsplash...see?

The mind is open, but not attempting to grasp what it sees.

Alan Watts - Thought - YouTube

 

[Thief]

If your thinking were truly 'tempered in reason' (*cough*), you would not formulate beliefs. In reality, you temper your reasoning via your beliefs.

The truth is bent to fit your teeth.

You are guilty of what most theologians do. You begin with an assumption, then build your so-called 'reason' around it to make it appear as truth.

You make the tail wag the dog.

You may refer to the intial belief as assumption.
Creator before creation.
It is assumption by means a lack of physical proof.

The rest follows suit....by reason.

I am not most theologians.
Note my banner.

 

[godnotgod]

I have the say that is far removed from the traditional Abrahamic or Biblical definition of God. That makes the Biblical definition of God look far closer the Pagan Gods they replaced than Chopra's view which I can scarcely recognize as a God at all. So God has only survived through that concepts ambiguity over the centuries which have adapted to fit increasingly rational thought. Chopra's definition of "God" God being just a mere synonym of the universe with its emergent consciousness can be undifferentiated to my definition of God which is the pantheist view or the God of Carl Sagan. It makes that Christian's definition look my like the personal pagan God's such as Zeus or Odin. Except I do not call it God, because that not only confuses others but just confuses me and instead bestow it to its proper name "the universe" "the cosmos" or nature.

"The universe IS the Absolute as seen through the glass of Time, Space, and Causation"
Vivikenanda


[youtube]8YdDLHrMMzs[/youtube]
Alan Watts - The Cosmos - YouTube

The key to all of this is to realize that the Ordinary is the same as the Miraculous. There is no Supernatural Force dominating Nature.

 

[idea]

Spirit/mind/conscience/intelligence is not an illusion, any more than matter/energy and all the rest of it are..

I was referring to what we refer to as the 'physical' world; ie; 'matter'. This is what Max Planck said about matter:

“As a physicist, that is, a man who had devoted his whole life to ...the exploration of matter, ...and.. having studied the atom, I am telling you that there is no matter as such. All matter arises and persists only due to a force that causes the atomic particles to vibrate, holding them together in the tiniest of solar systems, the atom. Yet in the whole of the universe there is no force that is either intelligent or eternal, and we must therefore assume that behind this force there is a conscious, intelligent mind or spirit. This is the very origin of all matter.”

Max Planck

and.....

“Concerning matter, we have been all wrong. What we have called matter is energy, whose vibration has been so lowered as to be perceptible to the senses. There is no matter.”

- Quote attributed to Albert Einstein

See more here: Matter does not exist | Peace and Loveism

I agree - spirit/conscience/mind/thought is more real than matter is in my opinion.

 

[godnotgod]

[/color]

The other three are the dreams. But the dreams must be known, else what will be the fun?

Ah-HA! FUN, you say. God wants to have some FUN! Is THAT it?

By 'dreams', are you referring to the 4 kalpas?

 

[atanu]

Ah-HA! FUN, you say. God wants to have some FUN! Is THAT it?

By 'dreams', are you referring to the 4 kalpas?

No. The kalpas are un-enfolding of time-space of the dreams. The dreams states are: the sleeping, dreaming, and waking.

The Brahman, the singularity, the one without second, will not know anything or we would not know anything, if the Seer was not one with the One without a second Brahman.

In short, the highest Being is the Seer. That is all. Without a Being, nothing would be known and no teaching would be of any value. The Seer and the Brahman are not different.

 

[godnotgod]

No. The kalpas are un-enfolding of time-space of the dreams. The dreams states are: the sleeping, dreaming, and waking.

The Brahman, the singularity, the one without second, will not know anything or we would not know anything, if the Seer was not one with the One without a second Brahman.

Am I clear? In short, the highest Being is the Seer. That is all. Without a Being, nothing would be known and no teaching would be of any value. The Seer and the Brahman are not different.

Then what of lila and maya? Are they not play?

 

[atanu]

Then what of lila and maya? Are they not play?

Yes. But for the play to be of any fun, a Seer is required. A play without any Seer is not even imaginable. Isn't it?

 

[godnotgod]

Yes. But for the play to be of any fun, a Seer is required. A play without any Seer is not even imaginable. Isn't it?

What I am attempting to determine, is at what point that which cannot be deluded becomes deluded. Is it that the Seer allows Itself to be taken in by its own maya, forgetting absolutely who and what its true nature is? Is this where the fun comes in?

This may not be entirely accurate, but perhaps you can make the necessary corrections while preserving the integrity of the question?

 

[atanu]

What I am attempting to determine, is at what point that which cannot be deluded becomes deluded. Is it that the Seer allows Itself to be taken in by its own maya, forgetting absolutely who and what its true nature is? Is this where the fun comes in?

This may not be entirely accurate, but perhaps you can make the necessary corrections while preserving the integrity of the question?

It is, IMO, the stage of creator, with division of one without second into subject and object. Creator has a sense of doership. Hindu scriptures, including Gita, say that BrahmA down to all creatures of all realms are subject to samsara.

 

[Thief]

Yes. But for the play to be of any fun, a Seer is required. A play without any Seer is not even imaginable. Isn't it?

But I can do this.

For example.....in the martial art....
One is the aggressor and the other is the defender.
A third party is not required for the play of action.

But here we are addressing the likelihood of a Creator.
and what happens when we die.

Recent postings point to a complex perspective.
I don't think it's all that complex.

As creations we are subject to disassembly.
The Creator and heaven might have some interest what stands up from the dust.

I lean to the suspicion.....
Heaven will stand with you and then ask you to follow....
or leave you where you fell.

 

[atanu]

As creations we are subject to disassembly.
The Creator and heaven might have some interest what stands up from the dust.

Belief takes shape and hides the shapeless.

I lean to the suspicion.....
Heaven will stand with you and then ask you to follow....
or leave you where you fell.

Unfortunately for you, the omnipresent cannot leave one. There is chance, however, that one may create the separation with belief.

 

[Thief]

Belief takes shape and hides the shapeless.




Unfortunately for you, the omnipresent cannot leave one. There is chance, however, that one may create the separation with belief.

Shall we then use the preamble of the book of Job as a reference?

 

[godnotgod]

Unfortunately for you, the omnipresent cannot leave one. There is chance, however, that one may create the separation with belief.

That, in fact, seems to be the case for most of humanity.

 

[atanu]

Shall we then use the preamble of the book of Job as a reference?

Please explain.

 

[Thief]

Please explain.

The sons of God gathered to present themselves.....presence is the focus.
The devil came with them....and there was objection made.....by God.

Job wasn't there, and became the focus as the devil sought to break him.
Job...obviously....was at distance when the sons of God did gather.

None of this can happen if all participants are within earshot of each other.

There is separation and distance involved.

As it is with 'you' and 'me'.

When we die presence will still be an issue.
Maybe I will 'see you' later.
Maybe not.