What Happens When You Die?

[atanu]

The sons of God gathered to present themselves.....presence is the focus.
The devil came with them....and there was objection made.....by God.

Job was there, and became the focus as the devil sought to break him.
Job...obviously....was at distance when the sons of God did gather.

None of this can happen if all participants are within earshot of each other.

There is separation and distance involved.

As it is with 'you' and 'me'.

When we die presence will still be an issue.
Maybe I will 'see you' later.
Maybe not.

I agree that this is good.:yes:

The point is that separation is caused by appropriating desire that is of nature and not intrinsic to me. Once the desire is seen as thought to which my attention gets riveted and causes damage, the truth is seen. Once the capability to see the desire rise and go without doing anything to me develops, the separation is gone

Understanding this and experiencing this alone is the work -- the good karma. Yes. Even this is possible because grace IS. This is possible because 'He was before All and in Him all subsist".

Understanding and believing this is grace and removal of the separation.

Best.

 

[Thief]

I agree that this is good.:yes:

The point is that separation is caused by appropriating desire that is of nature and not intrinsic to me. Once the desire is seen as thought to which my attention gets riveted and causes damage, the truth is seen. Once the capability to see the desire rise and go without doing anything to me develops, the separation is gone

Understanding this and experiencing this alone is the work -- the good karma. Yes. Even this is possible because grace IS. This is possible because 'He was before All and in Him all subsist".

Understanding and believing this is grace and removal of the separation.

Best.

I made a typo correction a moment ago.
Hope that doesn't break the line of discussion.

I don't believe we lose our'selves' after the last breath.

But heaven might not care to allow our presence if our speech and behavior is less than required.
I believe heaven is a place of peace.
Not all are allowed to be present.

 

[atanu]

---
Not all are allowed to be present.

That is Okay but not for me to judge. Judging is not in the karma package assigned to me. I can only do the work alloted to me.

 

[godnotgod]

There is separation and distance involved.

As it is with 'you' and 'me'.

When we die presence will still be an issue.
Maybe I will 'see you' later.
Maybe not.

[SIZE=-1]No Separation From God

Romans 8: 38-39:

"For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers,
nor things present, nor things to come,
Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God,
which is in Christ Jesus our Lord."

[SIZE=-1]St. Paul
[SIZE=-1]*****

[SIZE=-1]Baby Fish: Momma, all my fr[SIZE=-1][SIZE=-1]ie[/SIZE]nds at school tell me about the sea. What is the sea?
[SIZE=-1]Momma Fish: Well, baby, [SIZE=-1]the sea is all around you and inside you. [SIZE=-1]
[SIZE=-1]Bab[SIZE=-1]y Fish: (lo[SIZE=-1]oking frantically all around) Where? I don't see an[SIZE=-1]y sea[SIZE=-1]!
Momma Fish: Y[SIZE=-1]ou were born into the sea [SIZE=-1]and will die in the sea.
[SIZE=-1]Baby Fish: *sigh*...Gee..[SIZE=-1]I guess there is no such thin[SIZE=-1]g as the sea....oh[SIZE=-1],[SIZE=-1] w[SIZE=-1]ell. If there is, I must be far, far away from it. [/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE]:goldfish:

 

[Thief]

[SIZE=-1]No Separation From God[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]Romans 8: 38-39:[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]"For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]nor things present, nor things to come, [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]which is in Christ Jesus our Lord[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]."[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1][SIZE=-1]St. Paul[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1][SIZE=-1]*****[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1][SIZE=-1]Baby Fish: Momma, all my fr[SIZE=-1][SIZE=-1]ie[/SIZE]nds at school tell me about the sea. What is the sea?[/SIZE][/SIZE][SIZE=-1][SIZE=-1]
[SIZE=-1]Momma Fish: Well, baby, [SIZE=-1]the sea is all around you and inside you. [/SIZE][/SIZE][SIZE=-1][SIZE=-1]
[SIZE=-1][SIZE=-1]Bab[SIZE=-1]y Fish: (lo[SIZE=-1]oking frantically all around) Where? I don't see an[SIZE=-1]y sea[SIZE=-1]![/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][SIZE=-1][SIZE=-1][SIZE=-1][SIZE=-1]
[SIZE=-1]Momma Fish: Y[SIZE=-1]ou were born into the sea [SIZE=-1]and will die in the sea.[/SIZE][/SIZE][SIZE=-1]
[SIZE=-1][SIZE=-1]Baby Fish: *sigh*...Gee..[SIZE=-1]I guess there is no such thin[SIZE=-1]g as the sea....oh[SIZE=-1],[SIZE=-1] w[SIZE=-1]ell. If there is, I must be far, far away from it. [/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE]:goldfish:

How strange 'you' would quote a Christian writer.

And 'you' did it poorly.

Nothing CAN separate 'you' from the love of God.
Except 'you'.....of course.

 

[atanu]

[SIZE=-1]No Separation From God[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]-----[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1][SIZE=-1][SIZE=-1][SIZE=-1]Baby Fish: Momma, all my fr[SIZE=-1][SIZE=-1]ie[/SIZE]nds at school tell me about the sea. What is the sea?[/SIZE][/SIZE][SIZE=-1][SIZE=-1]
[SIZE=-1]Momma Fish: Well, baby, [SIZE=-1]the sea is all around you and inside you. [/SIZE][/SIZE][SIZE=-1][SIZE=-1]
[SIZE=-1][SIZE=-1]Bab[SIZE=-1]y Fish: (lo[SIZE=-1]oking frantically all around) Where? I don't see an[SIZE=-1]y sea[SIZE=-1]![/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][SIZE=-1][SIZE=-1][SIZE=-1][SIZE=-1]
[SIZE=-1]Momma Fish: Y[SIZE=-1]ou were born into the sea [SIZE=-1]and will die in the sea.[/SIZE][/SIZE][SIZE=-1]
[SIZE=-1][SIZE=-1]Baby Fish: *sigh*...Gee..[SIZE=-1]I guess there is no such thin[SIZE=-1]g as the sea....oh[SIZE=-1],[SIZE=-1] w[SIZE=-1]ell. If there is, I must be far, far away from it. [/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE]:goldfish:

:biglaugh::biglaugh:

I will ache to death.

 

[atanu]

-Nothing CAN separate 'you' from the love of God.
Except 'you'.....of course.

But that is what we are doing. Isn't it? You cite the story of Job, but you ignore other scripture.

Folks at different level get attached to or obtain benefit from different teachings.

You do not take into heed the simple teaching that He was before all and in Him all subsist.

 

[godnotgod]

How strange 'you' would quote a Christian writer.

And 'you' did it poorly.

Nothing CAN separate 'you' from the love of God.
Except 'you'.....of course.

If separation is impossible, then whatever separation you see must be an illusion.

 

[godnotgod]

:biglaugh::biglaugh:

I will ache to death.

Glad you liked it!

 

[Thief]

But that is what we are doing. Isn't it? You cite the story of Job, but you ignore other scripture.

Folks at different level get attached to or obtain benefit from different teachings.

You do not take into heed the simple teaching that He was before all and in Him all subsist.

Not all correct.

I cite Job to show you distance and presence.

I enjoy Genesis as well.

 

[Thief]

If separation is impossible, then whatever separation you see must be an illusion.

I didn't say separation was impossilbe.

And I have little doubt that persistance as you have could result in permanent separation.

The eternal darkness of the grave could well be...eternal.

 

[godnotgod]

I didn't say separation was impossilbe.

Yes you did. You said:

Nothing CAN separate 'you' from the love of God.
Except 'you'.....of course

...to which I replied:

If separation is impossible, then whatever separation you see must be an illusion.

...so if, as you say, "nothing can separate you...etc..", you are saying that separation is impossible, but then you add that 'you' can separate yourself, which, in light of your first claim, must be illusory.

Do you care to re-state?

The eternal darkness of the grave could well be...eternal.

You won't be there to experience such 'eternal darkness': you'll be DEDD, remember? :thud:

 

[godnotgod]

*edit*

Apparently it is YOU that is confused, and I will show you how:

Because you are fooled into thinking this....

*edit*

...you are fooled into concluding this....

*edit*

Have we not already established that no separation from God is possible, except for the self-induced delusion that we are so separated?

Did not the Carpenter tell you that the Kingdom of God is within?

Why do you deliberately choose to ignore his words?

And if you are dead, how can a dead man follow dust into a grave, or even why?

Come now. You're fantasizing. Wake up!

 

[Thief]

Apparently it is YOU that is confused, and I will show you how:

Because you are fooled into thinking this....



...you are fooled into concluding this....

Have we not already established that no separation from God is possible, except for the self-induced delusion that we are so separated?

Did not the Carpenter tell you that the Kingdom of God is within?

Why do you deliberately choose to ignore his words?

And if you are dead, how can a dead man follow dust into a grave, or even why?

Come now. You're fantasizing. Wake up!

Man is a unique event with every birth.
Separate we are.....yes we are.

If you can't get out of you body now....by your own willfulness....and you could fail altogether to do so, during the hour of your last breath.
Into the box and then into the grave.

'YOU' did not put 'you' into that parcel of flesh 'you' call 'your' body.
You are not your own handiwork.

But you have spirit.
It forms more so each time you post.
And with each post you are either headed to your Maker.....or the grave.

And you say to me .....wake up.

 

[godnotgod]

Man is a unique event with every birth.
Separate we are.....yes we are.

Uh, last I looked, we are all together on a single planet. Where do you see 'separation'? You're deluded, dude! We breathe the same atmosphere, eat the same food, walk the same ground, emerge from the same universe; live, love, hate, and die..... TOGETHER!

If you can't get out of you body now....by your own willfulness....and you could fail altogether to do so, during the hour of your last breath.
Into the box and then into the grave.

You got yourself into that body, now you want out. I suppose now you're going to blame God, eh? But if God put you there, why do you lack so much faith that you want to overturn his decision? Why can't you live fully the life you now have, enjoying fully the Gifts of the Incarnation available to all?

'YOU' did not put 'you' into that parcel of flesh 'you' call 'your' body.
You are not your own handiwork.

You said you were 'clay'. Clay is the common material which makes us all the same, then, and 'handiwork' is merely the shape the clay takes. No sooner did your God make you than you want to escape his handiwork. You are, for some strange reason, fixated on the grave, imagining that you will be in there, alive, terrified to death, LOL. :bonk:You want to escape death and go to the good place, safe and warm, but what you fail to realize is that to get there, you must pass through death's doors. But if you were really smart, you would simply transcend both the grave and the so-called 'afterlife', and live the life you now have, because that is really all you have. You spend all your time and energy fixated on death, and cheat yourself of the Kingdom of God within. Wake Up!

But you have spirit.
It forms more so each time you post.
And with each post you are either headed to your Maker.....or the grave.

And you say to me .....wake up.

You continue to waste your precious time 'becoming', instead of 'being'.

Wake up and be what you are NOW, instead of gambling on a cotton-candy fantasy paradise far away in some distant heaven in some imaginary non-existent future.

What on Earth do you imagine the 'afterlife' to be?

Super-cali-fragi-listic-expi-ali-docious?

That is already here, now. Get with it. Then, when death comes, you can live that moment to its fullest as well.

When living, just live....
When dying, just die....

That is all.

 

[Thief]

Uh, last I looked, we are all together on a single planet. Where do you see 'separation'? You're deluded, dude! We breathe the same atmosphere, eat the same food, walk the same ground, emerge from the same universe; live, love, hate, and die..... TOGETHER!

You got yourself into that body, now you want out. I suppose now you're going to blame God, eh? But if God put you there, why do you lack so much faith that you want to overturn his decision? Why can't you live fully the life you now have, enjoying fully the Gifts of the Incarnation available to all?


You said you were 'clay'. Clay is the common material which makes us all the same, then, and 'handiwork' is merely the shape the clay takes. No sooner did your God make you than you want to escape his handiwork. You are, for some strange reason, fixated on the grave, imagining that you will be in there, alive, terrified to death, LOL. :bonk:You want to escape death and go to the good place, safe and warm, but what you fail to realize is that to get there, you must pass through death's doors. But if you were really smart, you would simply transcend both the grave and the so-called 'afterlife', and live the life you now have, because that is really all you have. You spend all your time and energy fixated on death, and cheat yourself of the Kingdom of God within. Wake Up!

You continue to waste your precious time 'becoming', instead of 'being'.

Wake up and be what you are NOW, instead of gambling on a cotton-candy fantasy paradise far away in some distant heaven in some imaginary non-existent future.

What on Earth do you imagine the 'afterlife' to be?

Super-cali-fragi-listic-expi-ali-docious?

That is already here, now. Get with it. Then, when death comes, you can live that moment to its fullest as well.

When living, just live....
When dying, just die....

That is all.

And with that....do you feel you've made your point?

Any third party reading this text will no doubt.....'see' better.

 

[atanu]

Not all correct.

I cite Job to show you distance and presence.

I enjoy Genesis as well.

I didn't say separation was impossilbe.

And I have little doubt that persistance as you have could result in permanent separation.

The eternal darkness of the grave could well be...eternal.

Actually, have you ever considered that there is nothing substantial that can go to a grave and remain there eternally? Who and what will know that "I am in a grave"?

 

[Thief]

Actually, have you ever considered that there is nothing substantial that can go to a grave and remain there eternally? Who and what will know that "I am in a grave"?

Yeah!....indeed!

I don't believe the last breath destroys the spirit.

But the spirit confined in darkness won't last long.

Confinement is possible.
Are you not contained...even now?

 

[atanu]

Yeah!....indeed!
I don't believe the last breath destroys the spirit.
But the spirit confined in darkness won't last long.
Confinement is possible.
Are you not contained...even now?

No. That is the point.

 

[Thief]

No. That is the point.

So like unto Edgar Cayce.....you can leave your flesh at will?

And the bond you have to that particular lump of meat you call your body...
can be broken....and mended....without anyone else knwoing of it?