What Happens When You Die?

[godnotgod]

Of course Jesus was before Abraham [No capital AM in Scripture] 'before Abraham' because Jesus had a pre-human existence in the heavens before God sent Jesus to earth. God sent his heavenly existing Son from heaven to earth to be born on earth. God sent the one who was the beginning of the creation by God. -Revelation 3 v 14.

Even the resurrected ascended back-to-heaven Jesus does not make himself an equal, but doesn't Jesus still think he is 'Son' according to Revelation 2 v 18; 3 v 12

But, you see, Jesus did not say: "Before Abraham was, I was; he said: "I am", which is of the present tense. In the spiritual world, there is no time, no history. What Jesus, (ie Yeshu) is saying by 'I am', is that "I have always been in this present moment, which is timeless and therefore, eternal, but Abraham is a creature subject to time, and therefore, to birth and death. My nature, which is 'not of this world' [ie; the world of time and history] is unborn and therefore deathless."

There is no 'before' or 'after' in the spiritual world. There is only NOW. Are you aware of that?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

But, you see, Jesus did not say: "Before Abraham was, I was; he said: "I am", which is of the present tense. In the spiritual world, there is no time, no history. What Jesus, (ie Yeshu) is saying by 'I am', is that "I have always been in this present moment, which is timeless and therefore, eternal, but Abraham is a creature subject to time, and therefore, to birth and death. My nature, which is 'not of this world' [ie; the world of time and history] is unborn and therefore deathless."
There is no 'before' or 'after' in the spiritual world. There is only NOW. Are you aware of that?

Sure there is 'before' in the spirit world. God is from everlasting - Psalm 90 v 2
God is 'before' the beginning of everything.
If God was not before the beginning, there could be no beginning.
God was before the start otherwise there would be no start.
-Revelation 3 v 14 B

Where the expression [I am] is of past time, then the 'present-tense verb' can be translated as if it had begun in past time and continues up the the present time.
'I am' has nothing to do with the Tetragrammaton [YHWH]

Who are the two [2] LORD/Lord's of Psalm 110 v 1 ?

 

[godnotgod]

Sure there is 'before' in the spirit world. God is from everlasting - Psalm 90 v 2
God is 'before' the beginning of everything.
If God was not before the beginning, there could be no beginning.
God was before the start otherwise there would be no start.
-Revelation 3 v 14 B

Where the expression [I am] is of past time, then the 'present-tense verb' can be translated as if it had begun in past time and continues up the the present time.
'I am' has nothing to do with the Tetragrammaton [YHWH]

Who are the two [2] LORD/Lord's of Psalm 110 v 1 ?

Actually, I should have said there is no 'before' or 'after', period.

Time is an illusion.

There was no 'beginning' or 'start'. What you call 'beginning' and 'start' is only a point in an eternal cycle of 'on'/'off', a continuum that occurs only in this eternal Present Moment. What you call 'past' is only the trace of events which occur and we now see in this present moment. You are failing to see the universe as the unfolding organism that it is, and instead see only a slice of it, thinking there is a past, present, and future.

I am afraid that we, as humans, have mistaken the measuring device for that which we are measuring; have mistaken the gridwork overlaid onto nature for nature itself. In so doing, we have hard-wired our brains to actually come to think that such gridworks are, in fact, real. Time, Space, and Causation are the distorting glass through which we view the universe

When you refer to God as being 'before' the start, you are marrying God to Time, but God is outside of such concepts. God is neither before nor after. God just is, in this eternal present moment. When you still your mind, you will be able to see this reality. Until then, you see causal movement across Time and Space. That is what the Hindus call maya, or illusion.

 

[Thief]

Actually, I should have said there is no 'before' or 'after', period.

Time is an illusion.

There was no 'beginning' or 'start'. What you call 'beginning' and 'start' is only a point in an eternal cycle of 'on'/'off', a continuum that occurs only in this eternal Present Moment. What you call 'past' is only the trace of events which occur and we now see in this present moment. You are failing to see the universe as the unfolding organism that it is, and instead see only a slice of it, thinking there is a past, present, and future.

I am afraid that we, as humans, have mistaken the measuring device for that which we are measuring; have mistaken the gridwork overlaid onto nature for nature itself. In so doing, we have hard-wired our brains to actually come to think that such gridworks are, in fact, real. Time, Space, and Causation are the distorting glass through which we view the universe

When you refer to God as being 'before' the start, you are marrying God to Time, but God is outside of such concepts. God is neither before nor after. God just is, in this eternal present moment. When you still your mind, you will be able to see this reality. Until then, you see causal movement across Time and Space. That is what the Hindus call maya, or illusion.

Some of this is right....time is not real.

But then you spoil it with your denial of a linear existence.

 

[atanu]

----- Eventually even the dullest buggers begin to understand that there is only life and that death is simply a change of scenery. The show continues...

I suppose that the stripping away of a very closely fitting apparel is going to be painful?

 

[atanu]

I am not sure of Chopra. And also not sure of the post. It is easy to say 'there is no fear of death'. Immortality is not mere words.

 

[godnotgod]

Some of this is right....time is not real.

But then you spoil it with your denial of a linear existence.

But you don't have a linear existence; you have a conditioned existence, in which you only think you live linearly, when, in fact, you are always existing in the present moment, and in no other moment. Past and future are non-existent, so it surprises me that you recognize Time, which is linear, as an illusion, while insisting that we live a linear existence! 'Linear existence' as a reality is only in your mind, a pattern which we all follow due to convention, except that some of us think it is actually real.

Can you tell me how linear existence is real while Time is illusory?

 

[godnotgod]

I am not sure of Chopra. And also not sure of the post. It is easy to say 'there is no fear of death'. Immortality is not mere words.

\

It is not simply 'no fear of death'; it is no fear of death because, as Chopra stated, he does not exist in the first place, so why should he be afraid, when there is no self that dies?

 

[Thief]

But you don't have a linear existence; you have a conditioned existence, in which you only think you live linearly, when, in fact, you are always existing in the present moment, and in no other moment. Past and future are non-existent, so it surprises me that you recognize Time, which is linear, as an illusion, while insisting that we live a linear existence! 'Linear existence' as a reality is only in your mind, a pattern which we all follow due to convention, except that some of us think it is actually real.

Can you tell me how linear existence is real while Time is illusory?

Ask a mod to move this to the debate section.

THEN we can go for it!

 

[godnotgod]

Ask a mod to move this to the debate section.

THEN we can go for it!

Can you just answer the question:

Can you tell me how linear existence is real while Time is illusory?

 

[Thief]

Can you just answer the question:

Really?
And you have acces to the past that you can influence and redo it?
Foresee the details of the future...return here...and influence the flow of events?

Time is not a force or substance.
It is only a measure of movement.
A cognitive device of numbers...created by Man to serve Man.
It is only a quotient...and cannot leave the chalkboard.

 

[godnotgod]

Really?
And you have acces to the past that you can influence and redo it?
Foresee the details of the future...return here...and influence the flow of events?

Time is not a force or substance.
It is only a measure of movement.
A cognitive device of numbers...created by Man to serve Man.
It is only a quotient...and cannot leave the chalkboard.

That a past and future exist is in contradiction to your description of Time. If Time is but a measurement of movement, and does not exist perse, then how do you determine past and future?

Past and future are also cognitive concepts, and do not actually exist in reality. They are just other names for Time, and exist only in the mind.

If you think they are real 'forces or substances', then please point to them to show me where they are located.

 

[horizon_mj1]

What do you think Chopra means when he says:

"What happens when you die, is you return to where you always are."

Sounds to me like this person believes in multiple dimensional existence. Personally though I have my own thoughts on the subject. The very first memory I have in life is one of pre-existence. I recall standing in front of a doorway to this plane and asking "who will be my parents"; needless to say I found out. I also have had a personal experience with death in which I remember as if it just happened moments ago when in fact it occurred just over six years ago. If you can imagine existing as pure energy and had the ability to feel every good feeling you have ever experienced in your life at one time would be the most accurate description. Before this happened it is not so much that I didn't think that maybe there was a bit more than what meets the eye in this life, but was very much the type of person who needed tangible evidence to prove just about everything; needless to say this opinion changed dramatically.

 

[atanu]

Q: What happens when you die, Deepak?
Chopra: What happens when you die, is you return to where you always are. If you realize right now that there's no such thing as a person, you'll be all set.
Q: What do you mean, I'll be all set?
Chopra: Then if you shift your identity to that consciousness that is differentiating as observer and observant, you'll know there's nothing to fear.
Q: You have no fear of death.
Chopra: No Sir! Why? Because I don't exist in the first place!
Q: Can you get reincarnated as a soul?
Chopra: [Sighs] Wisps of memory and threads of desire, which are specks of information, latch onto specks of consciousness and show up as recycled human beings. But in the bigger picture, the observer, the observed, the process of observation, is a single reality.
Q: So... Deepak Chopra, as I know him [questioner taps the sitting Chopra solidly on the knee for effect] my friend Chopra... doesn't exist?
Chopra: A transient behavior of... the total universe.[/I]

This question is auspicious and known as rising of Nachiketa Fire, after the name of the seeker who is supposed to have first encountered death himself with this question.

Some may benefit from reading this:

Katha Upanishad - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://www.celextel.org/upanishads/krishna_yajur_veda/katha.html

Best wishes to readers

 

[atanu]

A few easier translations of Katha Upanishad:

Katha Upanishad Translation by Eknath Easwaran -
http://www.hinduwebsite.com/sacredscripts/hinduism/upanishads/katha.asp
Katha Upanishad

 

[Thief]

That a past and future exist is in contradiction to your description of Time. If Time is but a measurement of movement, and does not exist perse, then how do you determine past and future?

Past and future are also cognitive concepts, and do not actually exist in reality. They are just other names for Time, and exist only in the mind.

If you think they are real 'forces or substances', then please point to them to show me where they are located.

You are confusing actual events with the measure and notation.

The Hindenburgh event happened.
Noting when it happened, logs it to the past....not the future.

Still confused?

 

[Thief]

Keeping more to topic.
Death is a pending event.
It will be noted on a calendar and recorded as public record.

But if no one notices....will it still happen?...of course it will.

I believe in life after death.
The angels will come to see what stands from the dust.
That event is going to happen.

 

[godnotgod]

You are confusing actual events with the measure and notation.

The Hindenburgh event happened.
Noting when it happened, logs it to the past....not the future.

Still confused?

No, you are: the Hindenburgh event is pure fiction, as all life is.

If, as you have stated, Time is an illusion, then nothing can occur in a linearly-conceived past or future, as past and future necessitate the existence of Time.

You contradict your own argument.

You still need to discover that the pool of water up ahead you think is real is only a mirage.

...and no, bashing your head against a wall does not, as you suggest, verify reality; it merely reinforces the dream you are immersed in as real.

The only way to verify reality is to awaken from the dream-fiction of life and death.

 

[godnotgod]

Keeping more to topic.
Death is a pending event.
It will be noted on a calendar and recorded as public record.

But if no one notices....will it still happen?...of course it will.

I believe in life after death.
The angels will come to see what stands from the dust.
That event is going to happen.

Just because you believe it to be so does not make it so.

re: death:

Human Route By Zen Master Seung Sahn

Coming empty-handed,

going empty-handed -- that is human.

When you are born, where do you come from?

When you die, where do you go?

Life is like a floating cloud which appears.

Death is like a floating cloud which disappears.

The floating cloud itself originally does not exist.

Life and death, coming and going, are also like that.

But there is one thing which always remains clear.

It is pure and clear, not depending on life and death.

Then what is the one pure and clear thing?

 

[godnotgod]

Death is a pending event.
It will be noted on a calendar and recorded as public record.

But if no one notices....will it still happen?...of course it will.

I believe in life after death.
The angels will come to see what stands from the dust.
That event is going to happen.

Who is it that lives?
Who is it that dies?