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What Happens When You Die?

godnotgod

Thou art That
godnotgod, let me know how your eyes look without using any other senses as a reference point. Actually let me know with the absence of any senses including sight of the outside world if you are still convinced your eyes exist. Be specific on how important it is that your eyes exist and that they are your true core identity in such a condition. If you can approach this somewhat coherently then we can continue our discussion on the Self. Best of luck.

Kem

The question makes no sense to me. However, it is true that the eyes cannot see themselves.

When Identification ceases, including that associated with one's eyes, it is then seen that the consciousness that I am is the same as the universe itself looking at itself through the eyes in my head.

In other words, my consciousness is not MY consciousness, but the consciousness of the universe. It means that consciousness is non-local.

That makes me One with the universe, which also makes me Absolute.
 
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godnotgod

Thou art That
We can't know for sure what happens when we die. Anyone who states as a fact that you go to heaven or hell is lying. The most likely outcome is that we cease to be when we die.

What IS clear is that the BODY undergoes transformation. There is no death. But since we associate our personal identity with the specific body we now inhabit, we might say that when our body dies, we also die, but that pertains only to our temporal identity as an individual ego.

Having said that, if your consciousness is such that you realize an existence beyond that of temporal identity, a consciousness that was present prior to your birth and that goes beyond your death, then such consciousness is Unborn and therefore Deathless. That is the consciousness Chopra is referring to. If you are unaware that such a consciousness exists, then you would tend to think that death is the termination of all that you are, with nothing surviving. Most people either think the personal identity ceases or survives, but far less see that a universal consciousness is an always present state, that is to say, eternally present.

An ocean wave arises and subsides, but returns to the Source that is the sea which is present both before and after the wave manifests.

Furthermore, we can think of the sea as the Source which manifests the wave. In like manner, we can think of Universal Consciousness which is currently manifesting both you and I. The universe is doing you, not the other way around.

Look at the background against which you exist, not just the figure in the foreground you call "I", and you may change your view.

The question for you is: who is it that 'ceases to be when you die'?

'God is not the root of contradiction, but God is the simplicity itself prior to every root.'
Nicholas of Cusa
 
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Thief

Rogue Theologian
We can't know for sure what happens when we die. Anyone who states as a fact that you go to heaven or hell is lying. The most likely outcome is that we cease to be when we die.

I don't believe that.

There are billions of copies of a form that can do little more than learn.
All five senses, though different from each other....
display to your mind and heart this physical reality.

I believe it is the effort of God that Man has this form.
We are here to learn all that we can...then back to God we go.

The universe (one word) would be stark isolation for any Entity if there is nothing but the echo of His own Voice.

Dividing One'self in portion won't work.
You have then, an exact copy.
You would be talking to your own Echo.

I believe we have been made (created) to fill the void.
 
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Daemon Sophic

Avatar in flux
I don't believe that.

There are billions of copies of a form that can do little more than learn.
All five senses, though different from each other....
display to your mind and heart this physical reality.

I believe it is the effort of God that Man has this form.
We are here to learn all that we can...then back to God we go.

The universe (one word) would be stark isolation for any Entity if there is nothing but the echo of His own Voice.

Dividing One'self in portion won't work.
You have then, an exact copy.
You would be talking to your own Echo.

I believe we have been made (created) to fill the void.
That's pleasant, and a nice warm fuzzy thought. :group:

It is also a key selling point of religious belief for billions of humans throughout history, in every culture. :162:

.....:sarcastic......and your evidence to support your philosophy is......? (this applies to godnotgod's recent post too; among many others).
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
That's pleasant, and a nice warm fuzzy thought. :group:

It is also a key selling point of religious belief for billions of humans throughout history, in every culture. :162:

.....:sarcastic......and your evidence to support your philosophy is......? (this applies to godnotgod's recent post too; among many others).

Sheer abundance.....but I think I mentioned the billions of copies?
 

Daemon Sophic

Avatar in flux
Sheer abundance.....but I think I mentioned the billions of copies?

Actually your number doesn't even come close to the number of living things on this planet that all share an ability to sense and learn. And that is just one measly planet in a universe of probable inhabited worlds. :faint:
Yet still, they are nothing but numbers. My how wonderous the world and all the cosmos is. Ho hum.....back to life.....and work. :sorry1:
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
Actually your number doesn't even come close to the number of living things on this planet that all share an ability to sense and learn. And that is just one measly planet in a universe of probable inhabited worlds. :faint:
Yet still, they are nothing but numbers. My how wonderous the world and all the cosmos is. Ho hum.....back to life.....and work. :sorry1:

When you return.....
You might consider the form.

Not much point in all of this complexity (as you have observed) only to have every bit of it crumble to dust on each occasion.

No chance of someone escaping this life?
The odds are billions to none?
 

Daemon Sophic

Avatar in flux
When you return.....
You might consider the form.

Not much point in all of this complexity (as you have observed) only to have every bit of it crumble to dust on each occasion.

No chance of someone escaping this life?
The odds are billions to none?
Odds mean nothing compared to even a single solid piece of evidence. :shrug:

P.S. - I sure hope you are right. But that don't mean busskitt for the true way of things. Right now, it is just your mortal, wishful thinking.
 

Runewolf1973

Materialism/Animism
This is how I understand it....

Everything is just energy changing form. If you look at this thing we call "life" not as some mystical thing, but rather as another form or change which energy takes and you will understand that "life" as we percieve it doesn't really exist, there is only energy in different forms. If "life" doesn't really exist, then what we percieve as death cannot exist. What we percieve as life and death is actually just energy changing form. What we percive as "consciousness" is really only the actions/reactions of that energy as it changes form. All energy has this same action/reaction effect on different levels. The more actions/reactions that go on inside an energy form, the higher the level of consciousness. A human body/brain has more complex actions/reactions going on inside it than say a plant or a bacteria, therefore a human has a higher level of consciousness and therefore a higher sense of "awareness" than a plant or bacteria. I guess in a way, all energy is conscious (it acts and reacts and constantly changes form), but not all energy forms have the same capacity to experience "awareness".

To answer the question "what happens when you die".... You don't. That energy which you percieve as you simply changes form. In this way reincarnation is a very plausible idea since it seems that energy itself in a sense "reincarnates" as it changes from one form to another.
I hope that made sense, lol. Really simple, but hard to explain.
 
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godnotgod

Thou art That
Not much point in all of this complexity (as you have observed) only to have every bit of it crumble to dust on each occasion.

Ah, but it is precisely that it DOES crumble that life can exist! Otherwise, life would only be a frozen, static, and dead thing. There must be change for life to exist, and change must then include death, or more accurately, transformation. But don't you see? It's all really just a Grand Illusion that the world is real and that it lives and dies. It can't live and die because it does'nt exist in the first place! And this again is Chopra's point, and why he isn't afraid of death, because there is no one who lives that can die.

Be still and know God!


"There is shadow under this red rock,
(Come in under the shadow of this red rock),
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust"
TS Elliot

The ego wants to go on forever, to be gratified forever. It is afraid to die, to become inconsequential dust, and will play every dirty trick in the book to go on, to be 'somebody', even to the point of creating an afterlife of a Heavenly Reward and a Hellish Torment as both incentive and deterrent. But alas, no matter it's endless and varied machinations in its attempts at 'becoming', it always ends up a 'has-been', as it's existence is based wholly on the dead past or the non-existent future, and not on the living present.

Remember this, from the parable of the Lilies of the Field, otherwise known as 'The Wisdom of Insecurity'?:

“Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moths and vermin destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moths and vermin do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also."

Matthew 6:19-21
 
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Thief

Rogue Theologian
Ah, but it is precisely that it DOES crumble that life can exist! Otherwise, life would only be a frozen, static, and dead thing. There must be change for life to exist, and change must then include death, or more accurately, transformation. But don't you see? It's all really just a Grand Illusion that the world is real and that it lives and dies. It can't live and die because it does'nt exist in the first place! And this again is Chopra's point, and why he isn't afraid of death, because there is no one who lives that can die.

Be still and know God!

"There is shadow under this red rock,
(Come in under the shadow of this red rock),
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust"
TS Elliot

The ego wants to go on forever, to be gratified forever. It is afraid to die, to become inconsequential dust, and will play every dirty trick in the book to go on, to be 'somebody', even to the point of creating an afterlife of a Heavenly Reward and a Hellish Torment as both incentive and deterrent. But alas, no matter it's endless and varied machinations in its attempts at 'becoming', it always ends up a 'has-been', as it's existence is based wholly on the dead past or the non-existent future, and not on the living present.

Remember this, from the parable of the Lilies of the Field, otherwise known as 'The Wisdom of Insecurity'?:

“Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moths and vermin destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moths and vermin do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also."

Matthew 6:19-21

Way too shallow.

God is eternal...His spirit is eternal.
We are 'made' to become eternal.
This physical form crumbles....
The spirit can fail...but that choice is not yours.

So I believe.....(hi there!)
 

godnotgod

Thou art That
We are 'made' to become eternal.

How can that which is 'made' temporal 'become' eternal?

Are you saying that you, as you now exist, are on your way to an eternal existence in another realm? Why would God want a rehash of the same-old, same-old ad nauseum?

Are you thinking through before posting?
 
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godnotgod

Thou art That
And even if you believe what has been written, Hell is in the 3rd Ring of Heaven (See Secrets of Enoch; a book purposely left out of the Bible during translation).

It may be in some book considered holy, but the basis for it being reality is still YOUR belief that it is so, based on YOUR belief that such a book is an infallible source of Absolute Truth.
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
How can that which is 'made' temporal 'become' eternal?

Are you saying that you, as you now exist, are on your way to an eternal existence in another realm? Why would God want a rehash of the same-old, same-old ad nauseum?

Are you thinking through before posting?

Long time thinking....how about that lame response of yours?

Same old same old?...never.
Each occurrence of flesh renders a unique soul and perspective.

The more lame the perspective the more likely you follow your body into the grave.
A stopping point.

So I believe.....(hi there!)
 
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