What Happens When You Die?

[godnotgod]

That certainly is Christian "doctrine". It's incorrect, but that's certainly what people believe. I would suggest that his blood represents his life force (Spirit) and that his flesh represents his life purpose. In other words, his food (flesh/meat/bread) was to do his fathers will John 4:34. His drink (blood) was the Spirit which enabled him to do so. Blood = spirit. Flesh = life purpose. John 6:63. Unless we drink his blood (partake of the Spirit) and eat his flesh (live according to God's will) we will not be able to enter into the kingdom of God. His blood (Spirit) was "shed" (poured out) to free us of sin (remission). The Spirit (blood) was poured out upon all flesh Joel 2:27-29. The Spirit enables us to live according to God's will, just as the Spirit enabled Jesus to live according to God's will.

You're just embellishing and concocting stuff where none of that exists. What you fail to understand is that, by making Jesus a 'Special Case', he becomes the only one who is recipient of the gifts of the Incarnation. This is where the fatal flaw of Christian doctrine lies. The gifts of the Incarnation are accessible to all men and not just to the historical Jesus. This view reflects Buddhist thought as well, by which the Nazarene sect was heavily influenced. You want Jesus's blood to not just have 'special powers', but for that power to be exclusive to him alone. This is further separation of man from the divine essence, when the goal of all religious endeavor is divine union, not separation.

If death had a hold on Jesus, he'd not have risen.

He didn't. It's pure poppycock.

The message of the cross (in a nut shell) is life after death. This seems foolish to those who are perishing, or rather it is foolishness to those who believe (with worldly wisdom) that death is the end. However, for those of us who believe in the resurrection of the dead it is the power of God to save us and to raise us up in the heavenly kingdom. Worldly wisdom dictates that nothing comes after, hence God will destroy this type of wisdom. God likewise frustrates the intelligence of those who think themselves wise, or rather those who don't know God's power to raise us up and give us life.

No, the message of the cross is not life after death, but redemption, as in: 'Jesus died for your sins'.

You're free to view it any way you like. I view it differently.

Except that it's not my personal view. That Jesus was a Nazarene is clearly stated in the Bible.

Which goes back to my initial point. Proverbs 4:10-19

Morality is not Enlightenment. Enlightenment is beyond mere morality.

Bottom line is that blood sacrifice was infused into the pure teachings of Yeshu via pagan superstitious practices. The reason for this lies in the fact that Yeshu's teachings did not have wide mass appeal, but those of pagan blood sacrifice and submission to the deity did. Under the revised teachings, all one need do is bow down before Jesus and accept him as one's personal Lord and Savior. Simple. You didn't need to KNOW anything. Just believe and you were saved. Actually, more of a simple-minded, wishful thinking kind of activity. And so, the pagan teachings were overwritten onto those of Yeshu as a means of converting tens of thousands of pagans into Paul's new religion. Clever. The Church did much the same trick to millions of indigenous Indios of Mexico when it transformed their goddess of fertility, Tonantzin, into Our Lady of Guadalupe Hidalgo as a clever device to convert them to Christianity. Of course, the Indios just followed where their goddess dwelt.

 

[ZenMonkey]

You're just embellishing and concocting stuff where none of that exists. What you fail to understand is that, by making Jesus a 'Special Case', he becomes the only one who is recipient of the gifts of the Incarnation. This is where the fatal flaw of Christian doctrine lies. The gifts of the Incarnation are accessible to all men and not just to the historical Jesus. This view reflects Buddhist thought as well, by which the Nazarene sect was heavily influenced. You want Jesus's blood to not just have 'special powers', but for that power to be exclusive to him alone. This is further separation of man from the divine essence, when the goal of all religious endeavor is divine union, not separation.

God's Spirit has been poured out upon all flesh. That's union with the divine and the marriage of the lamb. Love. Blood has nothing to do with it (again). It's about the Spirit.

He didn't. It's pure poppycock.

Foolishness to you maybe, but not to those who believe in life after death.

No, the message of the cross is not life after death, but redemption, as in: 'Jesus died for your sins'.

To some yes, but again ... they are incorrect.

Except that it's not my personal view. That Jesus was a Nazarene is clearly stated in the Bible.

... and your point is what? Your view is the resurrection is poppycock. I disagree.

Morality is not Enlightenment. Enlightenment is beyond mere morality.

Bottom line is that blood sacrifice was infused into the pure teachings of Yeshu via pagan superstitious practices. The reason for this lies in the fact that Yeshu's teachings did not have wide mass appeal, but those of pagan blood sacrifice and submission to the deity did. Under the revised teachings, all one need do is bow down before Jesus and accept him as one's personal Lord and Savior. Simple. You didn't need to KNOW anything. Just believe and you were saved. Actually, more of a simple-minded, wishful thinking kind of activity. And so, the pagan teachings were overwritten onto those of Yeshu as a means of converting tens of thousands of pagans into Paul's new religion. Clever. The Church did much the same trick to millions of indigenous Indios of Mexico when it transformed their goddess of fertility, Tonantzin, into Our Lady of Guadalupe Hidalgo as a clever device to convert them to Christianity. Of course, the Indios just followed where their goddess dwelt.

Consider this


The Jews follow the old covenant, but the old covenant is cold and hard to follow. It can be a grievous way to honor God for many. It's still of God, so God is pleased that there are those who honor him through obedience to the written letter of the old covenant law. They have great zeal and are moral. He'd prefer people to know his love and to live through the Spirit, but they have their reward just the same. Those who live through love (Spirit) are no longer bound by the law, but live with a fire hot passion and love for all creation. It pleases God that there are those who honor him in Spirit and in truth (God is love).


You can be hot and hit the mark spiritually through love, or cold and hit the mark by obedience to the letter. Either way, you're showing your love and faith in God through obedience to His ways and purpose. What you cannot do is expect to please God if you fail to be obedient to either the letter or the Spirit. That makes you luke warm and without a fire hot passion or zeal to be obedient to God's ways. Those who love are no longer bound by the law, but have been set free. The truth will set us free. Jesus showed us and taught us the way of life. Love is the way, whether or not you believe it to be. It is the divine union between God and man.

 

[Nakosis]

Consider this


The Jews follow the old covenant, but the old covenant is cold and hard to follow. It can be a grievous way to honor God for many. It's still of God, so God is pleased that there are those who honor him through obedience to the written letter of the old covenant law. They have great zeal and are moral. He'd prefer people to know his love and to live through the Spirit, but they have their reward just the same. Those who live through love (Spirit) are no longer bound by the law, but live with a fire hot passion and love for all creation. It pleases God that there are those who honor him in Spirit and in truth (God is love).


You can be hot and hit the mark spiritually through love, or cold and hit the mark by obedience to the letter. Either way, you're showing your love and faith in God through obedience to His ways and purpose. What you cannot do is expect to please God if you fail to be obedient to either the letter or the Spirit. That makes you luke warm and without a fire hot passion or zeal to be obedient to God's ways. Those who love are no longer bound by the law, but have been set free. The truth will set us free. Jesus showed us and taught us the way of life. Love is the way, whether or not you believe it to be. It is the divine union between God and man.

Why would God make something cold and hard to follow for Jews and something warm and fuzzy for everyone else?

I think realistically Moses provided some civil laws to a group of escaped slaves. It gave them structure they needed to come together as a group. Likely many of those those laws came from his own thinking but he gave them God's authority so people would accept them.

 

[ZenMonkey]

Why would God make something cold and hard to follow for Jews and something warm and fuzzy for everyone else?

I think realistically Moses provided some civil laws to a group of escaped slaves. It gave them structure they needed to come together as a group. Likely many of those those laws came from his own thinking but he gave them God's authority so people would accept them.

God didn't give just law to the Jews, but love also. They are/were a very hard nosed people and many still choose law over love, but love is always there when they are ready to embrace it. Also, I believe he was inspired to write the laws by God to help bring order to the Jewish people. Law and love are both able to create peace and order on earth. Those who observe them are being faithful and contributing to peace on earth, while those who do not aren't. The old covenant law may not be perfect as written, but these laws are beneficial just the same. Both the written law and the Spirit are able to bring peace on earth when observed and/or lived through. Some live through the spirit, against which there is no law. Love fulfills all things. Others live according to and observe the written law, thus are contributing to God's will for us also (peace on earth and goodwill towards men).

 

[godnotgod]

God's Spirit has been poured out upon all flesh. That's union with the divine and the marriage of the lamb. Love. Blood has nothing to do with it (again). It's about the Spirit.

But where do you get this idea of God's Spirit being 'poured out', as if from the outside/over? What you're failing to understand is that divine union is already a fact,
a priori. Man only need awaken to that fact. God is not outside, pouring his love onto man, but unfolding divine love from the inside.

 

[ZenMonkey]

But where do you get this idea of God's Spirit being 'poured out', as if from the outside/over? What you're failing to understand is that divine union is already a fact,
a priori. Man only need awaken to that fact. God is not outside, pouring his love onto man, but unfolding divine love from the inside.

I do understand that, but when Christ said to drink of his blood, he was referring to the Spirit (love). When he spoke of eating his flesh, he was referring to living through the Spirit daily. Love has always been here, but it's like a mustard seed ... small and is viewed to be largely insignificant by many. Christ showed us its glory through his life and death. It poured of of him like water from a faucet. The Spirit of God dwells within us all ... the more we attune ourselves with it, the stronger influence it has in our lives. Christ showed us the way and was the way. His life reflected God's truth and God's truth gives life to all. The Spirit grows the more we feed and nurture it. It's a seed. It's the logos of God. I'm thinking that you are so caught up in typical christian dogma that you aren't trying to sincerely understand my position. I'm not a Christian, but I follow Christ. There's a difference.

 

[godnotgod]

I do understand that, but when Christ said to drink of his blood, he was referring to the Spirit (love). When he spoke of eating his flesh, he was referring to living through the Spirit daily. Love has always been here, but it's like a mustard seed ... small and is viewed to be largely insignificant by many. Christ showed us its glory through his life and death. It poured of of him like water from a faucet. The Spirit of God dwells within us all ... the more we attune ourselves with it, the stronger influence it has in our lives. Christ showed us the way and was the way. His life reflected God's truth and God's truth gives life to all. The Spirit grows the more we feed and nurture it. It's a seed. It's the logos of God. I'm thinking that you are so caught up in typical christian dogma that you aren't trying to sincerely understand my position. I'm not a Christian, but I follow Christ. There's a difference.

It's just that I don't see 'Christ' as the unique and 'Special' individual that you do, 'Christ consciousness', or 'Universal Consciousness' having been given to all from the get-go. I also don't see Yeshu as having said anything about drinking blood or eating his flesh. Those notions come from the pagan religions, particularly Mithraism, where the eucharist actually was the flesh and blood of a bull, and which was literally consumed as holy sacrament. It is part of the child stage of religion, in which man eats the deity as a means of attaining divine union. I don't believe that the 'spirit of God' you refer to is the same God others experience, as evinced by some of your earlier comments describing the behavior of God.

If there is inner divine union with 'Christ', then YOU are also Christ; YOU are also 'I Am'. So who is there fo follow? But all that really says is that you are awakened.

 

[Thief]

It's just that I don't see 'Christ' as the unique and 'Special' individual that you do, 'Christ consciousness', or 'Universal Consciousness' having been given to all from the get-go. I also don't see Yeshu as having said anything about drinking blood or eating his flesh. Those notions come from the pagan religions, particularly Mithraism, where the eucharist actually was the flesh and blood of a bull, and which was literally consumed as holy sacrament. It is part of the child stage of religion, in which man eats the deity as a means of attaining divine union. I don't believe that the 'spirit of God' you refer to is the same God others experience, as evinced by some of your earlier comments describing the behavior of God.

If there is inner divine union with 'Christ', then YOU are also Christ; YOU are also 'I Am'. So who is there fo follow? But all that really says is that you are awakened.

Jesus did speak of eating flesh and drinking blood.
It got Him in trouble at the very start of His ministry.

But He wasn't speaking literally....and was misunderstood.

And yes.....He was, is, and shall always be.....unique.

 

[Nakosis]

God didn't give just law to the Jews, but love also. They are/were a very hard nosed people and many still choose law over love, but love is always there when they are ready to embrace it. Also, I believe he was inspired to write the laws by God to help bring order to the Jewish people. Law and love are both able to create peace and order on earth. Those who observe them are being faithful and contributing to peace on earth, while those who do not aren't. The old covenant law may not be perfect as written, but these laws are beneficial just the same. Both the written law and the Spirit are able to bring peace on earth when observed and/or lived through. Some live through the spirit, against which there is no law. Love fulfills all things. Others live according to and observe the written law, thus are contributing to God's will for us also (peace on earth and goodwill towards men).

I'm hard nosed too. But the laws won't get you there. The law is needed only because we aren't ready to be without it. The law sustains our civil interaction. Until the love becomes inherent to us.

Anyway God is patient. I suspect we each get transformed in our own time.

 

[ZenMonkey]

I'm hard nosed too. But the laws won't get you there. The law is needed only because we aren't ready to be without it. The law sustains our civil interaction. Until the love becomes inherent to us.

Anyway God is patient. I suspect we each get transformed in our own time.

I quite agree. The law won't get anyone where they could be through love, but what it can do is help bring order and peace on earth when observed. There's not the type of spiritual blessings in the law that we have through love, but the law can bless the earth with peace and goodwill towards men if observed. Love exceeds the law. Love is like a marriage or a union between God and man. It was Christ's portion in life, and through it we are being reconciled to God, unified in his Spirit, and in covenant relation with the divine. It's the Love, Spirit, Wisdom, and Logos of our Creator. It's a marriage the relationship grows stronger the more love we put into it. The relationship develops more and more each day. The more love we show towards others, the more love we show towards God and Christ. The marriage of the lamb is a union between God and his children through the love we have for one another.


1 Corinthians 12:12-26


12 For just as the body is one and has many members, and all the members of the body, though many, are one body, so it is with Christ. 13 For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body— Jews or Greeks, slaves or free—and all were made to drink of one Spirit. 14 For the body does not consist of one member but of many. 15 If the foot should say, “Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body,” that would not make it any less a part of the body. 16 And if the ear should say, “Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body,” that would not make it any less a part of the body. 17 If the whole body were an eye, where would be the sense of hearing? If the whole body were an ear, where would be the sense of smell? 18 But as it is, God arranged the members in the body, each one of them, as he chose.



19 If all were a single member, where would the body be? 20 As it is, there are many parts, yet one body. 21 The eye cannot say to the hand, “I have no need of you,” nor again the head to the feet, “I have no need of you.” 22 On the contrary, the parts of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensable, 23 and on those parts of the body that we think less honorable we bestow the greater honor, and our unpresentable parts are treated with greater modesty, 24 which our more presentable parts do not require. But God has so composed the body, giving greater honor to the part that lacked it, 25 that there may be no division in the body, but that the members may have the same care for one another. 26 If one member suffers, all suffer together; if one member is honored, all rejoice together.

 

[godnotgod]

Jesus did speak of eating flesh and drinking blood.
It got Him in trouble at the very start of His ministry.

But He wasn't speaking literally....and was misunderstood.

And yes.....He was, is, and shall always be.....unique.

Men have made him out to be a 'Special Case', because ordinary men do not understand the spiritual world.

No truly spiritually enlightened person would talk about drinking blood and eating flesh, even as metaphor. This is superstition and ignorance. As I said, the original pure teachings of Yeshu did NOT include even animal sacrifice, let alone human and god sacrifice. These come to Christianity via the pagan practices.

 

[ZenMonkey]

Men have made him out to be a 'Special Case', because ordinary men do not understand the spiritual world.

No truly spiritually enlightened person would talk about drinking blood and eating flesh, even as metaphor. This is superstition and ignorance. As I said, the original pure teachings of Yeshu did NOT include even animal sacrifice, let alone human and god sacrifice. These come to Christianity via the pagan practices.

No man prior to Jesus had ever truly understood nor had any ever clearly perceived and/or seen God. None have lived according to the Spirit perfectly like he did. Jesus revealed the Father of Creation to mankind and he was killed because the light he shone on men exposed the darkness in those he came to free. The religious leaders of his day could not bear to have their religion exposed for what it was, so they had him killed. They were too proud to acknowledge and admit their wrongs. In this is judgement and it remains still today. Light has come into the world, but men love darkness more than the light because their deeds are evil. Love is the Logos of God. Christ embodied God's fullness. God is love. Judgement is against the religious institutions that keeps the body of Christ in darkness.


People matter. The body of Christ (humanity) is of great value. The institutions that lead, blind, and bind the body of Christ in spiritual darkness do not shine from them the light of life. In them is darkness, thus their house remain spiritually desolate. We are of great worth. Every person on this earth is of great value. The wickedness inside of us is like the dross in valuable pieces of silver and gold. Remove the dross from the silver and gold, and the smith will have honorable vessels for his use. Take away the wickedness from before a king and his throne will be established in righteousness. Our Heavenly Fathers love for us can and will save and free us in this life, as well as keep us out of the mire that many have found themselves wallowing in. Jesus was both the son of God and the son of man. Those who know and live through love are sons of God, and are also sons of man (like Jesus).


When we confess that all people belong to the body of Christ, we are confessing that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. Christ in us is our hope for glory. When God's Spirit is lived through we have been born of God, and Christ dwells in us also. We ourselves become a Christ (anointed of God) because of the love we know and live through. God is love. Once we have been anointed with love as sons of God, our sins have been propitiated for, and we are reconciled having regained the favor and goodwill of our Creator, having become a Christ (anointed child of God) ourselves. 1 John 4:1-10 . We are first children of the earth (first Adam) and we become children of heaven (last Adam) through love. All humans are a part of the vine, the lineage, and the family tree of life (body of Christ). It is through the first and last Adam (the way, the truth, and life) that all humanity comes to know the eternal creator of life (God).

 

[ZenMonkey]

"Right in the Light or Left in the Night."


There are many curses and there are many clues.
There are many scriptural facts but also many a ruse.
There is much blindness and then there is also sight.
There is much darkness of heart but there is also light.


There is God's great mercy and there is His love.
There is a heavenly peace given from above.
There is much hatred on earth and there is also greed.
There are many people in life who are in need.


We've been given life together; the harvest is calling.
Will you choose to love, or will you continue falling?
If you take the clues given and to them are devout,
take also the curses and let love cast them out.


The clues are the treasures that need our keeping.
The curses are the dirt that need our sweeping.
Both the refining furnace - kindled with a blazing fire,
and the love that is in us keeps us out of the mire.


Who is on the left of him and who is on the right?
Is there darkness in your heart or does it shine a light?
There are many herds of goats and many herds of sheep,
it's what we sow in the present that we presently reap.

 

[Thief]

Men have made him out to be a 'Special Case', because ordinary men do not understand the spiritual world.

No truly spiritually enlightened person would talk about drinking blood and eating flesh, even as metaphor. This is superstition and ignorance. As I said, the original pure teachings of Yeshu did NOT include even animal sacrifice, let alone human and god sacrifice. These come to Christianity via the pagan practices.

Oh....so now 'you' are not....ordinary.

 

[zenzero]

Friend godnotgod,

What Happens When You Die?

Oh! can only tell you after I die??
[frankly am looking forward to some advance information]

Love & rgds

 

[Aupmanyav]

You may not believe in it but the information is already available (because of beliefs that humans are special creations of a God).

 

[Muffled]

Mob reaction is difficult to predict.

I believe in many cases that is true but when there is a leader with an agenda it is pretty clear what is happening.

 

[Muffled]

when we die, we go in paradise,
and non-believer go to hell fire!

I don't believe that is always true. I believe Hell is reserved for the end times and those who have died before tht have not gone there. Paradise I am rethinking but it still seems to be another word for Heaven and I believe that not everyone deserving goes there either.

 

[Muffled]

it is my belief, that is why I'm here trying to save others.

I don't believe you can save others and I believe that only Jesus saves.

 

[Nakosis]

I think earth is hell for all the people who got it wrong.

Just hope them Christians folks were wrong about it being eternal.