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What Happens When You Die?

askersha

Member
Hi,
please expand on the ending, I am not sure what you mean. :)

EDIT:
Ok, now I have thought about it, it makes more sense. The last forum I was on, there was a lot of sarcasm, so it is the first thing you expect to see. So I was not quite sure what you meant. Apologies.
There are two main commandments in the NT, which are, Love the lord your God with all your heart, and love your fellow man as yourself. There is none greater than these. To add to these I can do if you wish, but I would say the important ones would be, study, prayer, and fast. Study his word; Prayer can be within and from the heart without actual outward prayers, for he knows already what you want, and; Fasting from the world, and all that it entails. If you are unsure on that, then you should just consider what is right and what is wrong. That entails a line drawn in the sand, which is not always in the same place as everyone else's, as theirs not with yours. But you must be honest with your own Self, and the Scriptures. One does not want to be 'religious' but it should be a life style. That is not always as easy to decipher as it first seems. If you want a more lengthy answer, and what I do personally, I am happy to give it. I am happy also that you are happy. :)

Thank you. This is what I wanted to ask. Actually, I raised to Christianity FROM Islam only a few years ago, and I am living in a strictly Islamic country right now. Keeping the Holy Bible at home in any form is a Capital Crime here !

Therefore, I still have little knowledge of the Book !

Blessings and brotherhood... :)
 

Robert.Evans

You will be assimilated; it is His Will.
Thank you. This is what I wanted to ask. Actually, I raised to Christianity FROM Islam only a few years ago,
Wow. Well done my friend.
and I am living in a strictly Islamic country right now. Keeping the Holy Bible at home in any form is a Capital Crime here !
Double Wow! Just remember, as much as it might pain you, the Bible is only a book. If someone is to catch you with it, then get rid of it, what is within is far greater than what is without. Truth abides within. You can always get another Bible, but you personally might be very important in your land, time will tell. Keep safe.
Therefore, I still have little knowledge of the Book !
Blessings and brotherhood
It will come. Thankyou for the blessings, if I can assist then I shall. These are a few I have written up, which I was going to do anyway. It is certainly not complete, but the main idea should be adhered to I think. The first three precepts are the most important. No doubt you know them all anyway, but I thought I would paste them here, they might help. You should learn yourself as you go along as the spirit gives you understanding in such things:

1. Love God with all your heart, soul, mind, strength. (Deut11.13, Deut26.16, Mat22.37, Heb11.6)
2. Love your neighbour as yourself (Mt19.19)
3. Believe in Yahshuah resurrected on the third day (Mt20.19, Jh2.22, Acts 2.32, Col2.12, Col3.1, Rom10.9)
4. Kill or harm nothing and no-one (Mt19.19, Ex20.13)
5. Fast from the world (Isa58)
6. Study the word (Dt4.2, Jh10.35, Act4.31, Act18.11)
7. Pray (Mt5.44, Mt6.5-6, Rom8.26)
8. Cover properly (Deut22.5)
9. Don't eat meat (Ex20.13, Gen1.29)
10. No tattoos (Lev19.28)
11. Don't cut hair too short(Lev19.27)
12. Don't shave off beard (Lev19.27)
13. Don't slander your people (Lev19.16)
14. Don't steal (Ex20.15)
15. Don't lie (Ex20.16)
16. Don't commit adultery (Ex20.14)
17. Don't hoard wealth (Act2.44-46)
18. Keep Shabbath (rest day from employment) (Ex20.8)
19. Keep oneself pure (Mt3.15, Lev18)
20. Three times a year tythe to charity through Church (Deut16.16)
21. Keep remembrance of Unleavened Bread (Ex12, 1Cor5.8)

It is in no way complete, nor are the verses cited, nor will everyone agree with them.:) By the way, if you Google "Esword" you should be able to find a program which has a basic KJV+ package you can download for free and allows you to do searches through the Bible. It is really helpful.

EDIT:
We are not now under Mosaic law but the Law of Christ. This said, the Law should line up from New to Old Testament, when understood, which is often the hard part (Rom7.1)
 
Last edited:

ZenMonkey

St. James VII
But Jesus did not say he forgave his transgressors for their SIN; he asked the Father to forgive them for their IGNORANCE:

Luke 23:34 KJV

Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do.

Everything you said was added later to add significance and credibility to his ignoble death, including the Resurrection and Ascension. The reality is that Jesus (Yeshu) was crucified for political reasons on the one hand, and for blasphemy on the other.

BTW, ignorance, not sin, is the focus of Buddhism, which points to a strong connection between Yeshu and the East.

But even if divine blood has no power of redemption, as you say, how does his death pay for man's sin? The whole idea of his 'sacrifice' was to re-open the Gates of Paradise closed to all mankind because of the Original Sin of Adam and Eve. However, this implies that God's love is conditional, and not unconditional, the condition, the covenant, being that a supreme sacrifice was necessary for God's love to be made available once again. If God's love were truly unconditional, He would have instantly forgave Adam and Eve, and the entire affair would have ended at that point. Even we, as human parents, can forgive our children when they do atrocious things out of their ignorance. It's because we love them, God's love being even greater.



We sin, we die, and Jesus heals our wounds after the fact. We are going to die, and once we die our sins are forgiven because we paid for them ourselves. It comes down to a broken rule a consequence. The wages of sin are death. We die (are destroyed) spiritually and physically because we lack knowledge. See Hosea 4:6 Jesus is not a scapegoat. He's a physician. He died only because he inherited the sins of Adam through his mother. He never sinned himself, which is why death could not hold him. He came to reveal the fathers love for us. He saves us from fear and ignorance.

See my post on the subject here.
 
Last edited:

godnotgod

Thou art That
Jesus is not a scapegoat. He's a physician.

Well a scapegoat provides healing, and so is also a physician. In this case, Jesus is the scapegoat that carries man's guilt for him. Jewish animal sacrifice and the scapegoat are precursors, but the roots are all pagan superstition. It was believed that one's guilt could somehow be transferred to the host animal, and then sacrificed to alleviate the sinner. We know better, and that is that humans can forgive one another for their transgressions. The notion that a divine being named Jesus paid the ultimate sacrifice was a doctrine overwritten onto the teachings of Yeshu, WHICH DID NOT INCLUDE BLOOD SACRIFICE! Rome and Paul did this to make Xtianity more palatable for the masses as a clever device to convert tens of thousands of pagans, who already had the promise of an afterlife in Mithra.
 

ZenMonkey

St. James VII
Well a scapegoat provides healing, and so is also a physician. In this case, Jesus is the scapegoat that carries man's guilt for him. Jewish animal sacrifice and the scapegoat are precursors, but the roots are all pagan superstition. It was believed that one's guilt could somehow be transferred to the host animal, and then sacrificed to alleviate the sinner. We know better, and that is that humans can forgive one another for their transgressions. The notion that a divine being named Jesus paid the ultimate sacrifice was a doctrine overwritten onto the teachings of Yeshu, WHICH DID NOT INCLUDE BLOOD SACRIFICE! Rome and Paul did this to make Xtianity more palatable for the masses as a clever device to convert tens of thousands of pagans, who already had the promise of an afterlife in Mithra.

People try to use Jesus as a scapegoat, but he isn't. We're all gong to heaven, but Jesus heals us in the now and after death. He prepares us for what's to come. We pay for our own sins ... both in life and in death. Still, God loves us and he will not allow us to suffer long, which is one reason life is so short (in comparison to eternity). It's temporary, but also necessary for us to experience what we do while in this temporal realm.
 

askersha

Member
Wow. Well done my friend.

Double Wow! Just remember, as much as it might pain you, the Bible is only a book. If someone is to catch you with it, then get rid of it, what is within is far greater than what is without. Truth abides within. You can always get another Bible, but you personally might be very important in your land, time will tell. Keep safe.

It will come. Thankyou for the blessings, if I can assist then I shall. These are a few I have written up, which I was going to do anyway. It is certainly not complete, but the main idea should be adhered to I think. The first three precepts are the most important. No doubt you know them all anyway, but I thought I would paste them here, they might help. You should learn yourself as you go along as the spirit gives you understanding in such things:

1. Love God with all your heart, soul, mind, strength. (Deut11.13, Deut26.16, Mat22.37, Heb11.6)
2. Love your neighbour as yourself (Mt19.19)
3. Believe in Yahshuah resurrected on the third day (Mt20.19, Jh2.22, Acts 2.32, Col2.12, Col3.1, Rom10.9)
4. Kill or harm nothing and no-one (Mt19.19, Ex20.13)
5. Fast from the world (Isa58)
6. Study the word (Dt4.2, Jh10.35, Act4.31, Act18.11)
7. Pray (Mt5.44, Mt6.5-6, Rom8.26)
8. Cover properly (Deut22.5)
9. Don't eat meat (Ex20.13, Gen1.29)
10. No tattoos (Lev19.28)
11. Don't cut hair too short(Lev19.27)
12. Don't shave off beard (Lev19.27)
13. Don't slander your people (Lev19.16)
14. Don't steal (Ex20.15)
15. Don't lie (Ex20.16)
16. Don't commit adultery (Ex20.14)
17. Don't hoard wealth (Act2.44-46)
18. Keep Shabbath (rest day from employment) (Ex20.8)
19. Keep oneself pure (Mt3.15, Lev18)
20. Three times a year tythe to charity through Church (Deut16.16)
21. Keep remembrance of Unleavened Bread (Ex12, 1Cor5.8)

It is in no way complete, nor are the verses cited, nor will everyone agree with them.:) By the way, if you Google "Esword" you should be able to find a program which has a basic KJV+ package you can download for free and allows you to do searches through the Bible. It is really helpful.

EDIT:
We are not now under Mosaic law but the Law of Christ. This said, the Law should line up from New to Old Testament, when understood, which is often the hard part (Rom7.1)

Thank you brother for all you wrote for me. I once had a KJV Bible printed in the local language gifted to me by one of my students (I am a lecturer). But when I took it to a local Church, one day, secretly (I mean I didn't need to announce I was carrying the Bible), a missionary man gently took it from me in suspicion ("How could a Muslim turn to Christianity in this country!!!") for a few days and then never even met me again.

THIS was painful. I could have silently keep the Bible at home. Who would ask?

I'm soon gonna google the link for the Bible and download it. And this time, I won't tell anyone except my innocent wife, (who is also interested in learning about the truth and my son, who is young, learning, and a real gift to me from Lord Jesus.)

By the way, I did write to some international ex-Muslim organizations with no response from them so far. I hope and wish someone responds and my family and I are taken out of this prison soon. (Obviously, I am not willing to do it for money... I am a well off person... only that I am not allowed to move out of here because my conversion to Christianity has been leaked off and now I am under strict observation... That's it!) :(

But I do love God :)
I do love human beings :)
I do have hope :)
I am not discouraged :)
May God make me stronger and stronger in His love, His path and Faith in Him!
AMEN

:)
 

Robert.Evans

You will be assimilated; it is His Will.
Thank you brother for all you wrote for me. I once had a KJV Bible printed in the local language gifted to me by one of my students (I am a lecturer). But when I took it to a local Church, one day, secretly (I mean I didn't need to announce I was carrying the Bible), a missionary man gently took it from me in suspicion ("How could a Muslim turn to Christianity in this country!!!") for a few days and then never even met me again.

THIS was painful. I could have silently keep the Bible at home. Who would ask?

I'm soon gonna google the link for the Bible and download it. And this time, I won't tell anyone except my innocent wife, (who is also interested in learning about the truth and my son, who is young, learning, and a real gift to me from Lord Jesus.)

By the way, I did write to some international ex-Muslim organizations with no response from them so far. I hope and wish someone responds and my family and I are taken out of this prison soon. (Obviously, I am not willing to do it for money... I am a well off person... only that I am not allowed to move out of here because my conversion to Christianity has been leaked off and now I am under strict observation... That's it!) :(

But I do love God :)
I do love human beings :)
I do have hope :)
I am not discouraged :)
May God make me stronger and stronger in His love, His path and Faith in Him!
AMEN

:)
I'll be thinking of you all :)
 

Deborah Smith

New Member
OK. Just wanted to make that clear:

So you don't actually KNOW how blood washes away sin, let alone that it actually DOES; you only BELIEVE, based on what you've read in the Bible, that it does.

So I guess the next question would be: 'On what basis do you believe that blood contains within it such power?'



It is not about my own intellect or understanding that I’m appealing to, it is about God’s truth as He has given in His word. (For English speakers this is the King James Bible, not the new version corruptions.)

I can testify that Jesus Christ has saved me, He dwells within me and I know Him, and His Father and His Holy Spirit. I am cleansed by His blood because God’s word tells me. The born again believer will love the spiritual truths of God and the fact that blood atonement is necessary to cleanse sin. It is how God’s wrath is satisfied and it is Holy. The Godhead dwells within the believer in Christ, by the Holy Spirit – they are three but one; distinct but inseparable.

God bears witness to His word, His truths, the Gospel, Who Jesus Christ is; but man resists the conviction of the Holy Ghost, because of pride and self righteousness he will not acknowledge he is a sinner, i.e. not only that you’ve committed many sins, but that by nature are a sinner and cannot save yourself.

‘He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.’ John 3:18-20



If someone responds to God’s conviction of their sinful condition, of the deservingness of hellfire, and of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ He saves them. The death, burial and resurrection are all necessary for man’s redemption:

‘For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:’ Ephesians 2:14-16

‘For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.’ Romans 5:10

‘But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.’ Romans 5:8


‘For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised: And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.’ 1 Corinthians 15:16-17



But it is the literal physical shed blood of Jesus Christ, God manifest in the flesh that actually cleanses the sin of the believer:

‘In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:’ Colossians 1:14

‘In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;’ Ephesians 1:7


‘Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;’ Romans 3:25

‘After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.’ 1 Corinthians 11:25


‘But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.’ Ephesians 2:13


‘Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.’ Acts 20:28





‘Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.’ Romans 5:9


‘And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.’ Colossians 1:20



‘But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people:’ Hebrews 9:7


‘How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?’ Hebrews 9:14


‘Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood.’ Hebrews 9:18


‘And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.’ Hebrews 9:22


‘Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,’ Hebrews 10:19


‘Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?’ Hebrews 10:29


‘And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.’ Hebrews 12:24


‘For the bodies of those beasts, whose blood is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin, are burned without the camp.’ Hebrews 13:11


‘Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate.’ Hebrews 13:12

‘Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,’ Hebrews 13:20



‘Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:’ 1 Peter 1:18-19


‘But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.’ 1 John 1:7


‘And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,’ Revelation 1:5


‘And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;’ Revelation 5:9


‘And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.’ Revelation 7:14


‘And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.’ Revelation 12:11








God’s love is conditional on the person believing on His Son. Although God loved (past tense) the world to die for every person’s sin, and He wants all to repent and be saved, He is also righteously angry with and has a just hatred for the wicked (unsaved) for the sake of their sin:


‘For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.’ John 3:16

‘God judgeth the righteous, and God is angry with the wicked every day.’ Psalm 7:11


‘The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.’ Psalm 5:5




The unsaved will remain under condemnation until, and if, they get saved by believing on Christ and His redemptive work.



Since man is fallen and has a carnal mind at enmity with God it makes sense that an unbeliever who is not spiritually born again and reconciled to God by the blood of Christ, cannot receive His truths or discern that blood atonement is necessary for sin to be cleansed.



‘Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.’ Romans 8:7
 

ZenMonkey

St. James VII


We do not and cannot pay for our own sin. The Lord Jesus Christ paid the full price for our sin by offering Himself as the ultimate sacrificial Lamb. By His death on the cross He was the payment for the sin of the world and His precious blood cleanses sin. He was buried in the tomb and rose from the dead the third day, conquering sin and death. The Gospel to be believed is the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ, God manifest in the flesh. Jesus Christ saves the believer from Hell by forgiving them all their sin and He regenerates them. Man is already spiritually dead and a person must get saved before they physically die or they will go into Hell for their sin which in an unbeliever remains unforgiven. The believer is made spiritually alive in Christ and will have a new nature once they believe.



What are the wages of sin? Are you going to die? Did Jesus save you from having to pay your death sentence? If there is more to pay, then did Jesus suffer the same you think is necessary for payment? I mean if you believe in an eternal hell, is Jesus going to suffer in hell for all eternity? If not, then he never payed the price in full. Your substitutionary atonement scapegoat theory is a perversion of the truth.


‘I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.’ Revelation 1:18


‘For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:’ 1 Corinthians 15:3-4
‘In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:’ Colossians 1:14

‘…Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved,…’ Acts 16:31


Jesus pretty much ran into a burning building (earth) to save us from the blazing inferno that is life on earth. Not only did Jesus make it possible to be reconciled completely with God in heaven, he showed us how to create a better, more perfect world in the now. There is no scapegoating taking place, but there is a display of love and life to be honored. Jesus lived, died, and was resurrected. Because of him, we all share the same fate. In other words, Jesus didn't take our personal sins upon himself on the cross, but he did take it upon himself to enter this temporal world of sin and death that we might be saved through him. Jesus came to do a few things actually. 1) to reveal the true nature of God 2) to show us the ways of life. 3) to face temptation and death. 4) to overcome both through perfect obedience 5) to give hope to man through his resurrection. Through Jesus we have access to the heavenly kingdom. This isn't because of his death (as many believe) but because of the life he lived. He was sinless, never faltering from God's will. It is because of this that he became a worthy high priest and savior to us all. We are still responsible for our sins. We're going to die. The wages of sin are death. Jesus obviously did not take our sins upon himself on the cross as we all will die. We do, however, have victory over death through him. He knew no sin, and has become a bridge between heaven and earth, and the gate through which we all must enter to come to the father. No scapegoating taking place ... just salvation of the wayward and lost. He is our shepherd after all and our physician.


Love is all we truly need. What ever else we may or may not believe is trivial. Jesus lived in perfect obedience, which is what made him a worthy high priest and savior. We're like lost and wayward sheep. Jesus is gathering us up as a shepherd. He is leading us home by and through the grace of God. Salvation by grace is a gift. Nothing we do of ourselves saves us (including belief) but rather our salvation is a gift of grace given by God and utilized by Christ, our physician. What many seem to resist is the thought of equality. Many think themselves special because of what they believe, which is a far cry from the truth. None of us are perfect and we all fall short, but I say thank God for Jesus who compensates for our weaknesses and who reconciles us back to the Father of creation. I do think it's a process, but not one we have any real control over. We're lumps of clay after all. God is the master potter and craftsman, shaping us into vessels of honor. Christ heals our wounds, and leads us home. Those who live in outer darkness are the wayward and lost. They are those who are in need of healing. They are those who never truly knew the light of Christ. They are the very ones Christ came to save. Do you really think that the great physician himself who came to heal the sick, to find the lost, and to save those in need would forsake anyone because they are sick, lost, and in need of salvation? How reasonable is that? No! Jesus forsakes no one, neither in this life or in the world to come. He is our savior and worthy is the Lamb of God. People may resist and reject him in this life, but when judgement day comes every knee will bow, every tongue will confess, and all will be shown great love, mercy, and will be healed. That's my faith.



"How much more will the blood (death) of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit (love) offered himself without blemish to God, purify our conscience from dead works to serve the living God (through love). Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant (Spirit) so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that delivers them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant."



‘And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.’ Revelation 20:15


... and you think the lake of fire is hell? :no:



Jesus never inherited a sinful nature from His mother. Sin is came into the world through Adam, not Eve and therefore logically it is passed down through the male, and Jesus had no earthly father.


Sorry, that would suggest that Eve (woman), who came from man is somehow less responsible. It was Eve who was deceived and faltered first. Sin entered the world through Adam, but Eve (woman) came from Adam and was the first to sin, but who's pointing fingers?


‘Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:’ Romans 5:12


Consider also that no blood passes from the mother to the baby in the womb.


Jesus died because He laid down His own life to pay for the sin of the world:


‘Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.’ John 10:17-18


Christ makes a way for all to be reconciled to God in the heavenly kingdom. Christ in us is our hope for glory. Christ enables us to know the Kingdom of "God" in this life. The kingdom of "God" is within. It's knowing God's grace, love, and security in an evil world. Without Christ and/or a hope of resurrection, we are living a condemned life, and merely awaiting our death sentence to be carried out. Christ gives us hope for reconciliation, he strengthens faith in our Creator, and he enables us to live abundantly in the now (spiritually speaking). He didn't take our personal sins upon himself, but he did defeat death for all people through perfect obedience. Christ became a life giving Spirit, able to give us life in heavenly arena. We still must pay for our sins in this life. We all must die ....period.... no matter how much anyone spouts how a person can't know God unless they believe in the scapegoat doctrine. Your sins are still your own. You will die in them, but thank God for Christ who gives us life, reconciling us with our Creator.


What Christ did do is "bear" our sins, which differs from taking our personal sins upon himself. He came to this temporal world tainted by sin, and by doing so death was imminent for him. He paid the same price we must pay for our sins, yet he was sinless. He died, despite him living a sinless life. He committed no sin, neither was deceit found in his mouth. When he was reviled, he did not revile in return; when he suffered, he did not threaten, but continued entrusting himself to him who judges justly. He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. By his wounds you have been healed. Christ is our physician. He heals our wounds, comforts us with love, cares for us all, and gives us life after death. By his stripes we are healed. He didn't have to come here. He didn't have to defeat death through perfect obedience for our benefit, but he did. He didn't go through the temptation, pain, suffering, and dying a physical death as a sinless being for only a few people who just happen to believe a certain way. Hid went through what he went through to save the world. Most limit Christ, and value the beliefs of mankind over mankind himself. People matter more so than what people believe.


ZM
 

Saint Frankenstein

Here for the ride
Premium Member
It is not about my own intellect or understanding that I’m appealing to, it is about God’s truth as He has given in His word. (For English speakers this is the King James Bible, not the new version corruptions.)

Oh, you mean the Queen James Bible. The one that was "authorized" by a witch hunting queer. :D
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian

But if you no longer exist, then who is it that experiences being dead?

In fact, who is it now that experiences life?

Don't you find it a bit odd that you're even here?

You should....the way you go on....and some day you won't.
 

Deborah Smith

New Member
Oh, you mean the Queen James Bible. The one that was "authorized" by a witch hunting queer. :D


‘Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.’ Exodus 22:18


And as for the sodomy, King James was no sodomite he was married with children. The ‘sodomy’ rumour was begun by one of his enemies many years after his death and was largely ignored at the time.
 

Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
‘Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.’ Exodus 22:18



ING - I get such a kick out of verses like this one. The Hebrew themselves were performing magic according to the Bible. YOUR magic is evil, - but mine is just fine. LOL!


And as for the sodomy, King James was no sodomite he was married with children. The ‘sodomy’ rumour was begun by one of his enemies many years after his death and was largely ignored at the time.


LOL! It was expedient to ignore "rumors" that your King was gay. Most Kings, gay or not, married to secure kingdoms, and produce heirs.


There are several books out there with Gay quotes from King James to the Earl of Buckingham.




*
 

ZenMonkey

St. James VII
‘Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.’ Exodus 22:18



The Church of Man


preacer-postercomic-fullsize_zpsf9dd0a65.png



"As a well keeps its water fresh, so she keeps fresh her evil; violence and destruction

are heard within her; her sickness and wounds are ever before me."

Greed, corruption, deceit, forced conversions, inquisition,

Just a few of many reasons I'm not a Christian

I know good fruit when I see it

It's not there

I choose

Love

(.)​





The church of man was built through greed, corruption, desire for power, to deceive, and to destroy and conquer. It's an abomination, and many of those who support her have been deceived. Lost and wounded sheep who need love fill the pews unaware. What do they get? Fear, bitterness, and a vile disposition towards those who believe differently. Feed my sheep! with Love, joy, peace, kindness, gentleness, patience, and establish their FAITH. <<----- << Jesus. I'm disgusted with what the church has done to God's children (humanity). They have robbed them of true security, love, and peace and have created judgmental, arrogant, and self righteous know it all's. The good news is God is present everywhere and in everyone. His law is love. It's all we need in life <<-----<< John Lennon. God is love <<-----<< 1 John ;)



"I will put my laws into their mind, And on their heart also will I write them: And I will be to them a God, And they shall be to me a people: And they shall not teach every man his fellow-citizen, And every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: For all shall know me, From the least to the greatest of them."
 

Saint Frankenstein

Here for the ride
Premium Member
‘Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.’ Exodus 22:18

Yeah, that's one of the verses the delusional James had mangled to suit his fear of "witches". The original word is more correctly translated as "poisoner".

And as for the sodomy, King James was no sodomite he was married with children. The ‘sodomy’ rumour was begun by one of his enemies many years after his death and was largely ignored at the time.

Being married and having kids doesn't mean a damn thing. Just because you like guys doesn't mean you can't ever consummate a relationship with a woman. James was bisexual. This was well-known during his lifetime and that's why he was called Queen James behind his back as a form of mockery.
 

godnotgod

Thou art That
It The point of the cross and his resurrection is about showing us that there is life after death, and that death has no hold on Jesus, nor us because of him.]

That is incorrect. The point of the Crucifixion was the shedding of divine blood for sin redemption, as uttered by Jesus at the Last Supper (at least that's what the doctrine states). Specifically, the Crucifxion was the event dictated by God as a means of re-opening the Gates of Paradise closed to all mankind by the Original Sin of Adam and Eve.

The point of the (highly dubious) Resurrection was to demonstrate that Jesus was who he said he was, again, according to Christian doctrine.

Death DID have a hold on Jesus; he died a man, again, according to Christian doctrine. But according to other sources, Jesus did not die, but was spirited away by friends to a Buddhist monastery in the Himalayas, where he lived out the rest of his days. It was this Buddhist monastery at Hemis where he also reportedly spent some of his 18 missing years, along with other points of his travels in the East, such as India and Persia. There is more evidence of his missing years in the East than anything from the West, In fact, we have NOTHING from the West, except a notation that Jesus lived out his years in Nazareth.

For that matter, we have zilch about the so-called 'Resurrection' until St. Paul briefly writes about it some 40 years after Jesus's death. IOW, the Resurrection was in a historical vacuum all that time. Paul even mentions that there are survivors of the '500 eyewitnesses' as he wrote, BUT NEVER BOTHERED TO INTERVIEW THEM ABOUT THE MOST IMPORTANT SINGLE EVENT IN MAN'S HISTORY!, rendering this story nothing more than poppycock.

The truth of the matter is that the real man, Yeshu, was a member of the Jewish mystical cult known as the Nazarenes, WHO DID NOT BELIEVE IN BODILY RESURRECTION! it was Paul and Rome that aggressively went after Yeshu and his teachings, destroying what they could, and overwriting them with the teachings of the mystery religions of the time, in which bodily resurrection WAS a doctrinal teaching. In additioni, Yeshu's teachings did NOT include a Virgin Birth nor blood sacrifice, again, both of which were added to them via pagan teachings.

Of course, this is a hard pill to swallow for Christians, but once understood, makes Yeshu a far more realistic figure than all the fluff added onto him after his death. The bottom line here, is that Yeshu is not the sacrificial host the West made him out to be, with blood sacrifice as the central doctrine, but a man of the East, whose original teachings were breath-based rather than blood-based. What's the difference? Huge! The blood based doctrine is focused on Salvation, which is about BELEF, while that of the breath is focused on Spiritual Awakening, which is about the realization of Enlightenment.
 
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ZenMonkey

St. James VII
That is incorrect. The point of the Crucifixion was the shedding of divine blood for sin redemption, as uttered by Jesus at the Last Supper (at least that's what the doctrine states). Specifically, the Crucifxion was the event dictated by God as a means of re-opening the Gates of Paradise closed to all mankind by the Original Sin of Adam and Eve.



That certainly is Christian "doctrine". It's incorrect, but that's certainly what people believe. I would suggest that his blood represents his life force (Spirit) and that his flesh represents his life purpose. In other words, his food (flesh/meat/bread) was to do his fathers will John 4:34. His drink (blood) was the Spirit which enabled him to do so. Blood = spirit. Flesh = life purpose. John 6:63. Unless we drink his blood (partake of the Spirit) and eat his flesh (live according to God's will) we will not be able to enter into the kingdom of God. His blood (Spirit) was "shed" (poured out) to free us of sin (remission). The Spirit (blood) was poured out upon all flesh Joel 2:27-29. The Spirit enables us to live according to God's will, just as the Spirit enabled Jesus to live according to God's will.


Death DID have a hold on Jesus; he died a man, again, according to Christian doctrine. But according to other sources, Jesus did not die, but was spirited away by friends to a Buddhist monastery in the Himalayas, where he lived out the rest of his days. It was this Buddhist monastery at Hemis where he also reportedly spent some of his 18 missing years, along with other points of his travels in the East, such as India and Persia. There is more evidence of his missing years in the East than anything from the West, In fact, we have NOTHING from the West, except a notation that Jesus lived out his years in Nazareth.


If death had a hold on Jesus, he'd not have risen.


For that matter, we have zilch about the so-called 'Resurrection' until St. Paul briefly writes about it some 40 years after Jesus's death. IOW, the Resurrection was in a historical vacuum all that time. Paul even mentions that there are survivors of the '500 eyewitnesses' as he wrote, BUT NEVER BOTHERED TO INTERVIEW THEM ABOUT THE MOST IMPORTANT SINGLE EVENT IN MAN'S HISTORY!, rendering this story nothing more than poppycock.


The message of the cross (in a nut shell) is life after death. This seems foolish to those who are perishing, or rather it is foolishness to those who believe (with worldly wisdom) that death is the end. However, for those of us who believe in the resurrection of the dead it is the power of God to save us and to raise us up in the heavenly kingdom. Worldly wisdom dictates that nothing comes after, hence God will destroy this type of wisdom. God likewise frustrates the intelligence of those who think themselves wise, or rather those who don't know God's power to raise us up and give us life.


The truth of the matter is that the real man, Yeshu, was a member of the Jewish mystical cult known as the Nazarenes, WHO DID NOT BELIEVE IN BODILY RESURRECTION! it was Paul and Rome that aggressively went after Yeshu and his teachings, destroying what they could, and overwriting them with the teachings of the mystery religions of the time, in which bodily resurrection WAS a doctrinal teaching. In additioni, Yeshu's teachings did NOT include a Virgin Birth nor blood sacrifice, again, both of which were added to them via pagan teachings.


You're free to view it any way you like. I view it differently.


Of course, this is a hard pill to swallow for Christians, but once understood, makes Yeshu a far more realistic figure than all the fluff added onto him after his death. The bottom line here, is that Yeshu is not the sacrificial host the West made him out to be, with blood sacrifice as the central doctrine, but a man of the East, whose original teachings were breath-based rather than blood-based. What's the difference? Huge! The blood based doctrine is focused on Salvation, which is about BELEF, while that of the breath is focused on Spiritual Awakening, which is about the realization of Enlightenment.


Which goes back to my initial point. Proverbs 4:10-19
 
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