What Happens When You Die?

[Thief]

That right there, that is the key. What happens when you die?... continual interaction in some form or another. It is not "consciousness", it is simply interaction on a fundamental level.

And if you are not aware of you interacting....how are 'you' sure it happens?

Fundamentally.....you are not interacting if you are not there.
wherever 'there' might be.

 

[Muffled]

If you were to deliberately and knowingly place sweet but deadly poisonous cookies in your child's room without them knowing what they are, and then instructing them not to eat of them, would that be evil?

I believe that doesn't fit as a metaphor because God isn't setting anything poisonous before us. All that he gave us was good. Now if I give my kids really good cookies and they take them outside and dip them in dog dung that is not the fault of my giving good cookies.

 

[Muffled]

How would your present body and self, which are not of heaven, relate to the heavenly experience, neither of which has had such experience?

I believe my spirit has been to Heaven and informs the mind of my body.

 

[Muffled]

If you agree Spirit as the source of all things, then there really is no second that can exist separately. Although, it is perfectly plausible for the Spirit to play a role as Thief. That is good.

Where I disagree with you is that this is not the ultimate, since Jesus says "Be ye perfect as Father in Heaven is perfect."

OTOH, I disagree with GnG because he, while denying a self, is with all his might asserting existence of his own personal self only.

I believe this is illogical. It is like saying because I have an apple, I can't have a pear.

 

[Runewolf1973]

And if you are not aware of you interacting....how are 'you' sure it happens?

Fundamentally.....you are not interacting if you are not there.
wherever 'there' might be.

There are many interactions that take place in our bodies and our environment that we are completely unaware of. For example, just because we are not there to see a tree falling in the forest or hear it come crashing to the ground, does that mean it never happened? Those interactions still took place whether we were aware of it or not. Consciousness or awareness is not fundamental to existence, the ability to interact is.


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[Riju]

I believe this is illogical. It is like saying because I have an apple, I can't have a pear.

How? I do not follow.

 

[Nakosis]

Indeed!

But I do not believe heaven to be static.
I strongly suspect a continual interaction with other souls.

Is that not what we have now? Heaven would suck if there was only one soul? What good is bliss if the bliss is not shared?

Why was man created and made to exist outside of Heaven, I mean if God wanted to share Heaven with man? Why not start out in Heaven so we can frolic together among the clouds or whatever souls do together for fun in Heaven?

Whatever I experience I can't really share. All of what I experience is internal. I could be in a room alone watching a movie, a really good movie. The drama, the action, I share the experience with the characters in the movie. Who am I really sharing that experience with? No one is really there except me.

When I dream, I dream of other people doing other things. You go to your idea of Heaven, you perceive other souls doing other things. It doesn't actually matter if anyone else is there or not. You accept the truth of your perception.

If there were one soul in Heaven or a billion, you could only know the truth of your own existence.

 

[atanu]

What is world without Being-Consciousness?

Consciousness is always Self-consciousness. If you are conscious of anything you are essentially conscious of yourself. Unselfconscious existence is a contradiction in terms. It is no existence at all. It is merely attributed existence, whereas true Existence, is not an attribute, it is the Substance itself. It is the vastu. Reality is therefore known as Being-Consciousness, and never merely the one to the exclusion of the other. The world neither exists by itself, nor is it conscious of its existence.

 

[Runewolf1973]

What is world without Being-Consciousness?

Pure, fundamental interaction. That ability to interact IS awareness on a fundamental level. To interact with something is to be aware of someting, to be aware of something is to interact with something. Interaction and awareness go hand in hand. Human consciousness is merely a complex form of interaction...heightened awareness. So in a way, yes...it can be said that the ultimate reality is being-consciousness or awareness because that IS interacting.

 

[Nakosis]

Pure, fundamental interaction. That ability to interact IS awareness on a fundamental level. To interact with something is to be aware of someting, to be aware of something is to interact with something. Interaction and awareness go hand in hand. Human consciousness is merely a complex form of interaction...heightened awareness. So in a way, yes...it can be said that the ultimate reality is being-consciousness or awareness because that IS interacting.

So does all that mean you don't really believe your self to exist?

 

[Runewolf1973]

So does all that mean you don't really believe your self to exist?

Fundamentally, only interaction exists. The self is an illusion bought about by the complexity of those interactions.

 

[godnotgod]

I believe that doesn't fit as a metaphor because God isn't setting anything poisonous before us. All that he gave us was good. Now if I give my kids really good cookies and they take them outside and dip them in dog dung that is not the fault of my giving good cookies.

Except that God did not give 'really good cookies'; he planted a highly delectable and irresistible, but poisonous Tree of the Forbidden Fruit that was fatal to his innocent children right smack dab in their paths, and then turns around and tells them NOt to eat of it! Of COURSE they're going to eat of it, because that is precisely what God WANTED them to do! But you don't know that, nor why, which I can explain later.

Now imagine that you put a chest in your children's room whose contents are unknown, and tell your children not to open it. What do you suppose the first thing they will do upon your leaving? This is the real point. You have piqued their curiosity which must be satisfied.

God KNEW his children would eat of the poisonous Fruit. Of this there is no question. It would be like having a voluptuous woman dancing nude in front of a teenager with raging hormones and telling him not to touch her.

So I say [the Christian] God is malevolently Evil as evinced by this infamous act.

 

[godnotgod]

I believe my spirit has been to Heaven and informs the mind of my body.

I see. You've been to heaven and just have a mental lapse as to the experience.

If you've been to Heaven, what are you doing here?

 

[Nakosis]

Fundamentally, only interaction exists. The self is an illusion bought about by the complexity of those interactions.

I have to disagree because I exist. You are right about the illusions of self. Yet I remain. I am consistent despite the illusion. I can reject all of the illusions. I can see the sin/maya whatever people wish to call it.

I know, all you find is illusion, you can't justify the acceptance of a self in all of that. I can set aside all of the illusion. I cannot set my existence. I really don't believe you can either but neither can you justify the existence you experience.

So since you can't justify it must be an illusion as well...

Go ahead try to not exist. Let me me know when you've succeeded. :yes:

 

[Runewolf1973]

I have to disagree because I exist. You are right about the illusions of self. Yet I remain. I am consistent despite the illusion. I can reject all of the illusions. I can see the sin/maya whatever people wish to call it.

I know, all you find is illusion, you can't justify the acceptance of a self in all of that. I can set aside all of the illusion. I cannot set my existence. I really don't believe you can either but neither can you justify the existence you experience.

So since you can't justify it must be an illusion as well...

Go ahead try to not exist. Let me me know when you've succeeded. :yes:

To exist requires that ability to interact. Without interaction 'you' would not exist.

 

[Nakosis]

To exist requires that ability to interact. Without interaction 'you' would not exist.

Ok, but that doesn't mean you have to actually be interacting. It only means you have to have the ability.

If you find yourself at a moment that you are unable to hear, that doesn't mean you've lost the ability to hear.

There are times when interactions cease, but you don't. Meditation you shutdown all 6 senses. The 6th being the perception of thought. No interaction, yet I continue.

 

[Runewolf1973]

Ok, but that doesn't mean you have to actually be interacting. It only means you have to have the ability.

If you find yourself at a moment that you are unable to hear, that doesn't mean you've lost the ability to hear.

There are times when interactions cease, but you don't. Meditation you shutdown all 6 senses. The 6th being the perception of thought. No interaction, yet I continue.

There are times when the complexity, arrangement, or the effects of those interactions change and we in turn may begin to interact differently (brain injury, meditation, deep sleep, etc...) but those interactions will not and can not cease. You can meditate on this all you want, but it does not change the fundamental laws of physics. The Fundamental Forces (interactions) are constant. Even when you stop breathing or when your body dies those interactions do not cease. For there to be a continuation of anything including that "I" or "You", there must be continual interaction in some form or another whether we realize it or not. That continuation itself IS interaction. Everything is interaction. That's why they are called the Fundamental Forces or Fundamental Interactions. Without them we would not exist, nothing would exist.

con·tin·ue
kənˈtinyo͞o/Submit
verb
1.
persist in an activity or process.
"he was unable to continue with his job"
synonyms: ongoing, continuous, sustained, persistent, steady, relentless, rolling, uninterrupted, unabating, unremitting, unrelieved, unceasing


That is interaction.


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[Thief]

Fundamentally, only interaction exists. The self is an illusion bought about by the complexity of those interactions.

I am very real....thank you.

And the interactions of the next life will be far more entertaining with more complex and diversified people.

 

[Thief]

Is that not what we have now? Heaven would suck if there was only one soul? What good is bliss if the bliss is not shared?

Why was man created and made to exist outside of Heaven, I mean if God wanted to share Heaven with man? Why not start out in Heaven so we can frolic together among the clouds or whatever souls do together for fun in Heaven?

Whatever I experience I can't really share. All of what I experience is internal. I could be in a room alone watching a movie, a really good movie. The drama, the action, I share the experience with the characters in the movie. Who am I really sharing that experience with? No one is really there except me.

When I dream, I dream of other people doing other things. You go to your idea of Heaven, you perceive other souls doing other things. It doesn't actually matter if anyone else is there or not. You accept the truth of your perception.

If there were one soul in Heaven or a billion, you could only know the truth of your own existence.

I've been considering a topic for this.
I've held it back for a long time.

Now that someone is asking.....the time is at hand.

 

[Runewolf1973]

I am very real....thank you.

And the interactions of the next life will be far more entertaining with more complex and diversified people.

No doubt you are real and I am real and existence is real. The reason why everything is all real is because those Fundamental Interactions are REAL and that IS everything. Even those "illusions" are real for even they are real interactions in one form or another. What makes them "illusions" has more to do with how our brain perceives those interactions. For example, we perceive matter to be solid, but really it is not. What we think of as solid matter is actually 99.9999999 percent empty space. It is the strength of those forces which makes matter seem solid or impenetrable. Even our ability to perceive is an interaction.