What Happens When You Die?

[atanu]

I will request that the comments be considered:

It neither exists nor not-exists. It simply is, and that is Being; not Existence. Being is Absolute and intemporal; Existence and non-Existence are dual, and temporal.

Neither existence-nor non existence is not equal to "Not Existence".

Being is always existent as that is its nature. However neither existent-nor non existent being is transcendental and ineffable to mind-senses.

Something is saying that "I" do not exist, but it is not the "I" that has a name, a history, an identity. That something is unborn, ungrown, formless, undifferentiated consciousness before the illusion of "I' became manifest, and will still be present when all that constitutes "I" is no more.

Rather consider this. The "I" that all of us sense -- the awareness of existing -- rises in the Absolute Consciousness and not in localised brains (as commonly perceived).

So, although the absolute Consciousness is devoid of an "I" is accompanied by an "I" without a break. In Hindu, iconographic terms, although the Absolute is One without a Second, yet it has a consort that appears in three states of consciousness: Sleep, Dream, and Waking.

So, why instead of discarding ego 'I', do we discard the universal "AUM" or "I Am", which provides the path back to the Absolute?

 

[godnotgod]

I will request that the comments be considered:



Neither existence-nor non existence is not equal to "Not Existence".

Being is always existent as that is its nature. However neither existent-nor non existent being is transcendental and ineffable to mind-senses.

And yet both are merely concepts created by the mind-senses. That is why the Absolute is neither. They are not real.

Rather consider this. The "I" that all of us sense -- the awareness of existing -- rises in the Absolute Consciousness and not in localised brains (as commonly perceived).

So, although the absolute Consciousness is devoid of an "I" is accompanied by an "I" without a break. In Hindu, iconographic terms, although the Absolute is One without a Second, yet it has a consort that appears in three states of consciousness: Sleep, Dream, and Waking.

So, why instead of discarding ego 'I', do we discard the universal "AUM" or "I Am", which provides the path back to the Absolute?

We want to continue the sense gratification that perpetuation of the ego brings. The Absolute originally bought into its own maya as a fleshy player in order to do so, but it became entranced by maya causing it to forget its true nature. When the ego gratification ceases to gratify, and suffering ensues, the player turns from the 'Hide' phase of the game of Hide and Seek to the 'Seek' phase. This leads to what is termed 'Self Remembering'. But it is the Absolute that is underneath, all the while subtly prompting our return.

 

[atanu]

And yet both are merely concepts created by the mind-senses. That is why the Absolute is neither. They are not real.

What is not real? Ego self is non-real? Or the "AUM" is unreal?

We want to continue the sense gratification that perpetuation of the ego brings. The Absolute originally bought into its own maya as a fleshy player in order to do so, but it became entranced by maya causing it to forget its true nature. When the ego gratification ceases to gratify, and suffering ensues, the player turns from the 'Hide' phase of the game of Hide and Seek to the 'Seek' phase. This leads to what is termed 'Self Remembering'. But it is the Absolute that is underneath, all the while subtly prompting our return.

This is nonsense. Is God saying "I am under spell of mAyA"? Or you are saying?

It neither exists nor not-exists. It simply is, and that is Being; not Existence. ....

Nonsense. 'It neither exists nor not-exists' does not equal "Not Existent". It is Transcedental being whose nature is existence-consciousness.

Something is saying that "I" do not exist, but it is not the "I" that has a name, a history, an identity. That something is unborn, ungrown, formless, undifferentiated consciousness before the illusion of "I' became manifest, and will still be present when all that constitutes "I" is no more.

Again nonsense. God/Brahman does not come and say "I do not exist".

You are misleading readers by taking name of Maharshi Ramana and other Hindu teachers.

Bye.

 

[Thief]

No doubt you are real and I am real and existence is real. The reason why everything is all real is because those Fundamental Interactions are REAL and that IS everything. Even those "illusions" are real for even they are real interactions in one form or another. What makes them "illusions" has more to do with how our brain perceives those interactions. For example, we perceive matter to be solid, but really it is not. What we think of as solid matter is actually 99.9999999 percent empty space. It is the strength of those forces which makes matter seem solid or impenetrable. Even our ability to perceive is an interaction.

Go back to the wall....continue banging your empty head.
It will bleed.

It's not real.
It's an illusion.

 

[Runewolf1973]

Go back to the wall....continue banging your empty head.
It will bleed.

It's not real.
It's an illusion.

Do you even understand what you are talking about? Why do these things work the way they do?

 

[godnotgod]

[/color]

What is not real? Ego self is non-real? Or the "AUM" is unreal?

Read: I said 'they', referring to 'mind-senses'.

This is nonsense. Is God saying "I am under spell of mAyA"? Or you are saying?

Nonsense: There is only Brahman. What else can it be?

'The universe IS the Absolute, as seen through the glass of Time, Space, and Causation'
Vivikenanda

The snake is none other than the rope, but there never was a snake from the very beginning.

Nonsense. 'It neither exists nor not-exists' does not equal "Not Existent". It is Transcedental being whose nature is existence-consciousness.

Nonsense. There is neither existence nor non-existence. Both are dualites. They don't equal anything. There is only Brahman.

Again nonsense. God/Brahman does not come and say "I do not exist".

Nonsense: You are being too literal and anthropomorphic. Something is causing the realization that the ego-I is illusory.

You are misleading readers by taking name of Maharshi Ramana and other Hindu teachers.

Are you saying I am pretending to be these very teachers by using their names for myself? That is quite insane. I use only the name of godnotgod, and do not hide behind the color of religious authority and dogma as you do. Whenever I quote someone else, it is purely because they provide an important view relevant to the issue at hand, and say it much better than I ever could.

You never did respond rationally to the intelligent argument I posted demonstrating the similarity of Buddhist Sunyata and Brahman Emptiness. All you said was 'nonsense', and became very emotional.

Bye.

Bye, bye

 

[godnotgod]

Do you even understand what you are talking about? Why do these things work the way they do?

Who cares? All Thief is concerned about is driving a square peg into a round hole, and calling it Truth. :jester3:

 

[godnotgod]

Leela is the nature of Supreme Consciousness, playful nature. The phenomenal world is manifested Leela. The play is beginningless - as well as endless....
Leela is the great adventure and the great discovery. Again, and again, and again, and again - without any loss and without any gain - this endless game is played. Those who realize the "play" in the game are not caught by the game-board, and know it as the Leela (Divine game) of Leela-Dhar (Cosmic Consciousness). Those who identify with the squares and planes of the game-board are played by the game-board; and the game-board becomes maya (illusion), the great veiling power that binds the mind.
It is maya which creates the phenomenal world. It is Leela that makes it a great adventure. Tamas brings the player to maya - and boundless love and spiritual devotion to Cosmic Consciousness. Spiritual devotion (bhakti loka) is the great discovery of Leela, created by maya of Supreme Consciousness in order to enjoy Himself - to play hide and seek with Himself. There is no purpose and no responsibility in Leela.

In the words of Maharishi Raman: "The ideas of purpose and responsibility are purely social in nature and are created by mind to exhort Ego. God is above all such ideas. If God is immanent in all and there is no one except him, who is responsible for whom? Creation is expression of inherent laws in the source of creation."

This inherent law is the playful nature of the Divine, which is Leela.

Leela

 

[Thief]

Do you even understand what you are talking about? Why do these things work the way they do?

Creation.

For reality to function....it has rules.

You keep playing with definition for the sake of argument.
You gain nothing this way.

You want to say solid isn't real.......yeah right!
You want to say solid is mostly empty space.....yeah right!

Try denying reality.....in a practical manner.
Eat a large rock.....pretend it's bread.

 

[atanu]

Leela is the nature of Supreme Consciousness, playful nature. The phenomenal world is manifested Leela. The play is beginningless - as well as endless....
Leela is the great adventure and the great discovery. Again, and again, and again, and again - without any loss and without any gain - this endless game is played. Those who realize the "play" in the game are not caught by the game-board, and know it as the Leela (Divine game) of Leela-Dhar (Cosmic Consciousness). Those who identify with the squares and planes of the game-board are played by the game-board; and the game-board becomes maya (illusion), the great veiling power that binds the mind.
It is maya which creates the phenomenal world. It is Leela that makes it a great adventure. Tamas brings the player to maya - and boundless love and spiritual devotion to Cosmic Consciousness. Spiritual devotion (bhakti loka) is the great discovery of Leela, created by maya of Supreme Consciousness in order to enjoy Himself - to play hide and seek with Himself. There is no purpose and no responsibility in Leela.

In the words of Maharishi Raman: "The ideas of purpose and responsibility are purely social in nature and are created by mind to exhort Ego. God is above all such ideas. If God is immanent in all and there is no one except him, who is responsible for whom? Creation is expression of inherent laws in the source of creation."

This inherent law is the playful nature of the Divine, which is Leela.

Leela

Do you even understand what 'Leela Dhar' means?

Legion was the only fellow who assessed you correctly.

 

[godnotgod]

Do you even understand what 'Leela Dhar' means?

You asked a question. I provided a description. Why do you ask me?

Legion was the only fellow who assessed you correctly.

His assessment is highly colored. Do you bring this up because you feel threatened, and need fellowhip from an intellectual to support you in your opposition to me? What's the problem, atanu? Do you wish to have a discussion, or make ad hominem attacks, using Legion as a shield? You have the wrong protection, as his 'assessment' is emotionally charged.

 

[godnotgod]

"The world, then, is the play of the mother of things, moved to cast herself forever into infinite forms and avid of eternal outpouring experiences. If we look at World-Existence, rather in the relation of the self-delight of eternally existent Being, we may regard, describe and realize it as Lila, the play, the child's play, the poet's joy, the actor's joy, the mechanician's joy, of the Soul of things, eternally young, perpetually inexhaustible, creating and recreating himself in himself for the sheer bliss of self-creation; of that self-representation, of God himself at play, himself the play, himself the player, himself the playground."

Sri Aurobindo

Maya And Lila - Spirit Web

 

[Runewolf1973]

Who cares? All Thief is concerned about is driving a square peg into a round hole, and calling it Truth. :jester3:

I know... It's still funny to watch people try. Lol.

 

[atanu]

You asked a question. I provided a description. Why do you ask me?

His assessment is highly colored. Do you bring this up because you feel threatened, and need fellowhip from an intellectual to support you in your opposition to me? What's the problem, atanu? Do you wish to have a discussion, or make ad hominem attacks, using Legion as a shield? You have the wrong protection, as his 'assessment' is emotionally charged.

I am concerned because i think that you are reckless. You don't even spell Vivekananda correctly but you have been using Vivekananda's sayings like slogan. You mix and matcth sayings and scriptures to fit your whims.

Unlike Buddhists, Vivekananda and Shri Ramana, both following Shankaracharya, have taught that the bodiless "I Am" awareness that everybeing experiences is Sat--True. It is the True thread that binds all.

Leeladhar, is Shri Krishna.. And in this context Leeladhar is God as a person. He says "I".

Legion had very correctly assessed you. You are bent upon on imposing your own view as the eastern view. Legion called it Imperialism.

 

[Runewolf1973]

Creation.

For reality to function....it has rules.

You keep playing with definition for the sake of argument.
You gain nothing this way.

You want to say solid isn't real.......yeah right!
You want to say solid is mostly empty space.....yeah right!

Try denying reality.....in a practical manner.
Eat a large rock.....pretend it's bread.

Keeping hammering. Eventually you should figure it out.

 

[atanu]

I know... It's still funny to watch people try. Lol.

Rune, its actually funny that you and GnG who have opposing views regarding Consciousness, agree here.

Is this a political game?

 

[Runewolf1973]

Rune, its actually funny that you and GnG who have opposing views regarding Consciousness, agree here.

Is this a political game?

No matter how our views may differ, it would be foolish of me to argue with one who speaks the truth.

 

[Nakosis]

Rune, its actually funny that you and GnG who have opposing views regarding Consciousness, agree here.

Is this a political game?

I'm curious what political means to you.
To me, political means finding truth in numbers.

 

[godnotgod]

I am concerned because i think that you are reckless. You don't even spell Vivekananda correctly but you have been using Vivekananda's sayings like slogan. You mix and matcth sayings and scriptures to fit your whims.

Unlike Buddhists, Vivekananda and Shri Ramana, both following Shankaracharya, have taught that the bodiless "I Am" awareness that everybeing experiences is Sat--True. It is the True thread that binds all.

Leeladhar, is Shri Krishna.. And in this context Leeladhar is God as a person. He says "I".

Legion had very correctly assessed you. You are bent upon on imposing your own view as the eastern view. Legion called it Imperialism.

There is but one Reality. Hinduism does not possess a proprietary key to it. I find validity in many disciplines, even Christianity. I highly value the study of comparative religions, which has helped me to understand the rationale behind each one, and how their doctrines arose. In spite of the Buddha having been steeped in Hinduism, he managed to overcome doctrine and dogma and to spiritually awaken.

Legion is incorrect. For one, I recently presented an argument from another source pointing to the relationship of Buddhist Sunyata to Brahman. I did not make this up nor 'impose' any such imperialist view upon Eastern wisdom. You have never adequately addressed this post, because your doctrine triggers a knee-jerk reaction. IOW, you interpret everything in terms of your indoctrination. Much of what you assert is simply dogma, and Buddhistic thought seems to be automatically classified as nihilistic, Godless crap. But I can see why Legion appeals to you: both of you adopt a rigid view, his intellectual and academic, yours that of religious anthropomorphic dogma.

A Hindu acquaintance of mine was proud of the display of modern destructive weaponry being paraded in the streets of one Indian city, pointing to the artwork on each warhead as being representations of Shiva and Vishnu, a continuation of the tribal warfare of the Hindu clans. The Buddha tried to prevent bloodshed between these warring clans. His was a message of real peace, and not just the interlude between conflicts that is called peace.

The Buddha saw the problems associated with the extreme views people held in his time, and so rejected them in favor of a more balanced view of life he called The Middle Path.

The point I am trying to make is that Reality should never be interpreted in terms of any doctrine or teaching, but the teaching should be interpreted in terms of the direct experience of Reality. This is a crucial point, one which Yeshu also tried to make. Of course, Yeshu was not a man of the West, but of the East anyway.

Thank you for the correction of Vivekananda's name. I am sure he will not be offended, as you pretend to be over such a minor point. Legion also loved to stir up a lot of dust over academic minutiae, whlle using his knowledge of Greek to browbeat and humiliate, while missing the real heart of the matter. I am surprised that you would use him as an authority weapon in an attempt to invalidate my view. If you wish to invalidate my view, then confront me directly with an argument, rather than ad hominem.

I relentlessly repeat Vivekananda's statement because it means something significant and compelling:

'The Universe is the Absolute as seen through the glass of Time, Space, and Causation'

edit: Legion has the historical knowledge, but confuses it for the spiritual understanding, which is always transcendent of history.

 

[godnotgod]

Creation.

Can you show, via argumentation, that anything has ever been 'created'?

You want to say solid isn't real.......yeah right!
You want to say solid is mostly empty space.....yeah right!

Thief, you have claimed respect for science. Are you now saying you are unaware of the scientific discovery that the atom is over 99.xx% empty space? Tell me it isn't so.