What Happens When You Die?

[Runewolf1973]

Matter does not live nor does matter die. There is no such thing as living matter versus dead matter, there is only matter. As highly animated creatures we are not truly living, we are simply interacting in a complex manner. The day will come when our interactions will change and we will begin to interact differently, in a less complex manner. Consider this though…what was never truly living to begin with can never truly die. We do not “live”, we do not “die”. All we can do is change form and interact differently. It is those Fundamental Interactions (the Fundamental Forces) that are the animating force or "spirit" behind everything that exists.



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[atanu]

ha ha ha ha...your beliefs, of course!

That is what I said.

If only Brahman is real, what is there to reject or accept?

Why? Dreams are also real while they last.

 

[atanu]

Actually, consciousness is always present in both life and death. The 'dead' body is very much alive, as it is now undergoing anaerobic decomposition. When it was alive, it nourishes its life via the consumption of 'dead' organic material. This is how life and death are inextricably intertwined.

I think, you did not read carefully.

 

[godnotgod]

Matter does not live nor does matter die. There is no such thing as living matter versus dead matter, there is only matter. As highly animated creatures we are not truly living, we are simply interacting in a complex manner. The day will come when our interactions will change and we will begin to interact differently, in a less complex manner. Consider this though…what was never truly living to begin with can never truly die. We do not “live”, we do not “die”. All we can do is change form and interact differently. It is those Fundamental Interactions (the Fundamental Forces) that are the animating force or "spirit" behind everything that exists.



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Actually, there is not even any such 'matter', as Quantum Physics now demonstrates. However, in all the interactions you point out, there IS consciousness, which I believe you are referring to as 'Fundamental Forces'.

To say that there is only matter interacting with itself is a reductionist-materialist argument, like saying that man is nothing more than a complex chemical factory.

 

[godnotgod]

Why? Dreams are also real while they last.

If, as you claim, all is Brahman, that would include dreams.

 

[godnotgod]

I think, you did not read carefully.

You said that awareness/lifeforce has shifted base, but they have not. They are still present, only in a different phase.

 

[Runewolf1973]

Actually, there is not even any such 'matter', as Quantum Physics now demonstrates. However, in all the interactions you point out, there IS consciousness, which I believe you are referring to as 'Fundamental Forces'.

To say that there is only matter interacting with itself is a reductionist-materialist argument, like saying that man is nothing more than a complex chemical factory.

You are absolutely correct. I should have worded that a little differently perhaps. As Max Planck is quoted as saying "There is no matter as such." I think I even pointed out my understanding of this in an earlier post when I was addressing Thief.

That "consciousness" you are referring to IS interaction.

BTW... When I said "there is only matter", I was referring to that "illusion" of solid matter, not that solid matter actually exists.



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[Nakosis]

I find the thread interesting, though sometimes I don't know quite what to make of it.
:bonk:

 

[godnotgod]

I find the thread interesting, though sometimes I don't know quite what to make of it.
:bonk:

It's like a Big Amoeba.

 

[Thief]

It's like a Big Amoeba.

Amoebas are an illusion...'YOU' should know that!

hehehehe

 

[John Martin]

Everything that has a beginning will have an end. Every form has a beginning and an end.
We are the bridge between eternal and non-eternal. Our non-eternal aspect are the image and likeness of God and God. Our non-eternal are our physical bodies our bodies of desire, which includes all belief systems. If we use some an analogies:
our bodies can be called earth consciousness
our belief systems can be called cloud consciousness
our image and likeness of God can be called the moon consciousness
God can be called the Sun consciousness.

We receive our bodies from the evolutionary process of the matter.
We receive our beliefs from the past. They belong to the level of our souls.
Our image and likeness of God is the radiance of the divine. It has no beginning and no end. It is deathless. It is there before the beginning of the matter(big bang) and before the beginning of the belief systems. Its nature is unfolding. It can use the body for unfolding. A body as an instrument of unfolding is free from any belief systems. There is no movement of becoming in it.( Cloud consciousness initiates the movement of becoming. Cloud consciousness also includes individual desires and ambitions.) It manifests eternity in time. The image and likeness of God is something personal. It is universal. It is like the trunk of the tree. It holds all branches(clouds) and all leaves(individual bodies).
Death belongs to levels: physical death and the death of the belief systems.
If our consciousness is at the level of the image and likeness of God,then physical death is like the falling of a leaf from a tree.
LIFE has no DEATH. life has death. If we realize that we are not life and death but LIFE then life and death are like waves that appear and disappear on the ocean of LIFE.

 

[atanu]

If, as you claim, all is Brahman, that would include dreams.

Obvously not. Ontological levels are diferent. Is Self awareness --the true "I" -- same as waking, or dream, or sleep bodies? No.

 

[John Martin]

Obvously not. Ontological levels are diferent. Is Self awareness --the true "I" -- same as waking, or dream, or sleep bodies? No.

It is true.

The energy of Brahman is different from the energy of the deep sleep, dreaming and waking:
Brahman contains all the three levels but not identical to them.
The energy of Brahman is like the Sun that radiates from its fullness.
The energy of the deep sleep is like the Moon, that receives the light from the Sun and reflects it.
The energy of the dreams is like the cloud that float in the sky and move horizontally. The clouds have no substance. They can evaporate.
The energy of the waking is like the earth that is solid,identified with the physical bodies.

Brahman is the ground and the foundation of all these three levels but transcends them. Brahman is Sat, infinite, and the other three levels are asat, finite.

 

[Thief]

It is true.

The energy of Brahman is different from the energy of the deep sleep, dreaming and waking:
Brahman contains all the three levels but not identical to them.
The energy of Brahman is like the Sun that radiates from its fullness.
The energy of the deep sleep is like the Moon, that receives the light from the Sun and reflects it.
The energy of the dreams is like the cloud that float in the sky and move horizontally. The clouds have no substance. They can evaporate.
The energy of the waking is like the earth that is solid,identified with the physical bodies.

Brahman is the ground and the foundation of all these three levels but transcends them. Brahman is Sat, infinite, and the other three levels are asat, finite.

Did you know the brain is more active when your are sleeping?
We 'light up' in the dark!

 

[godnotgod]

Obvously not. Ontological levels are diferent. Is Self awareness --the true "I" -- same as waking, or dream, or sleep bodies? No.

Everything comes out of Brahman. There is nothing that does not come out of Brahman. The moment you attempt a distinction between 'this and that', you enter the realm of duality and delusion.

It is the conditioned Brahman (called ISHWAR), by whom the
universe has been created, and by whom, after being created, it is sustained and into whom in the end, it is absorbed. Creation, preservation and destruction are the activities of the conditioned Brahman or the personal God which can never affect His transcendental nature; they are mere waves on the surface of the ocean which cannot touch the serenity of its immeasurable depths.

According to the non-dualistic Vedanta, this conditioning of
Brahman is not real, but only apparent. The conditioned
Brahman is a part of the phenomenal world and appears to
be real as long as the universe is regarded as real. In the
infinite ocean of pure consciousness, He is the biggest wave.
But the unconditioned Brahman and the conditioned Brahman are not two realities. The wave is not essentially different from the ocean; the sea is the same sea, whether it is peaceful or agitated.

The conditioned Brahman is called ISHWAR (the Lord), because He is the all powerful Lord of all, the ruler of the universe. He, the Lord, is the bestower of blessings, the adorable God.

Vedanta philosophy often uses the word MAYA to describe
the creation. Maya, which is not essentially different from
Brahman, is the material cause, and Brahman, as pure
intelligence, is the efficient cause of the universe. After
projecting all material forms, Brahman enters into them as
life and consciousness and animates them. Thus Brahman,
which is transcendental, becomes immanent in the universe.

Nature of Reality

 

[atanu]

Everything comes out of Brahman. There is nothing that does not come out of Brahman. The moment you attempt a distinction between 'this and that', you enter the realm of duality and delusion.

It is the conditioned Brahman (called ISHWAR), by whom the
universe has been created, and by whom, after being created, it is sustained and into whom in the end, it is absorbed. Creation, preservation and destruction are the activities of the conditioned Brahman or the personal God which can never affect His transcendental nature; they are mere waves on the surface of the ocean which cannot touch the serenity of its immeasurable depths.

According to the non-dualistic Vedanta, this conditioning of
Brahman is not real, but only apparent. The conditioned
Brahman is a part of the phenomenal world and appears to
be real as long as the universe is regarded as real. In the
infinite ocean of pure consciousness, He is the biggest wave.
But the unconditioned Brahman and the conditioned Brahman are not two realities. The wave is not essentially different from the ocean; the sea is the same sea, whether it is peaceful or agitated.

The conditioned Brahman is called ISHWAR (the Lord), because He is the all powerful Lord of all, the ruler of the universe. He, the Lord, is the bestower of blessings, the adorable God.

Vedanta philosophy often uses the word MAYA to describe
the creation. Maya, which is not essentially different from
Brahman, is the material cause, and Brahman, as pure
intelligence, is the efficient cause of the universe. After
projecting all material forms, Brahman enters into them as
life and consciousness and animates them. Thus Brahman,
which is transcendental, becomes immanent in the universe.

Nature of Reality

A good quote. Three points:

1. A wave is essentially same as ocean, means stripping the wave of all its attribute of name and form. The water in ocean and water in a wave is same. That is the reality of the reality. But a wave as a wave .. As a name and a form.. Is a wave and it is not ocean.

2. The same article describes mAYA as inscrutable power of Brahman, and not same as Brahman.

3. If one accepts Brahman as the one without a second truth, why should a second called mAyA be introduced and a spurious equality between Brahman and mAYA be established?

........

Brahman is the one without a second reality .. In absolute as well as phenomenal sensual realms. mAyA is inscrutable power of Brahman that makes Brahman appear as discrete many.

 

[atanu]

When some one wants to prove a point as per one's biased view, one will cite just a portion that highlights one aspect. The beginning of the the above article cited by GognotGod is:

Nature of Reality
As early as the Vedic times, the Rishis investigated the nature of reality from two levels of experience, one of which may be called the absolute, acosmic or transcendental level and the other relative, cosmic or phenomenal level. At the phenomenal level one perceives the universe of diversity and is aware of one's own individual ego, whereas at the transcendental level, the differences merge into an inexplicable non dual consciousness. Both of these levels of experience are real from their respective standpoints, though what is perceived at one level may be negated at the other....

It is not correct to impose the concepts of relative level on absolute Brahman. If I am only aware of enlightened 'me' and ignorant 'others', I am not situated in the absolute level. Talking of the absolute non dual truth from this position can only impose another layer of bias on the absolute, instead of revealing it. I also request to not Vedantic terms and Shruti in selective fashion.

 

[godnotgod]

When some one wants to prove a point as per one's biased view, one will cite just a portion that highlights one aspect. The beginning of the the above article cited by GognotGod is:



I request again, kindly do not impose the concepts of relative level on absolute Brahman. If I am only aware of enlightened 'me' and ignorant 'others', I am not situated in the absolute level. Talking of the absolute non dual truth from this position can only impose another layer of bias on the absolute, instead of revealing it. I also request to not Vedantic terms and Shruti in selective fashion.

Thank you for presenting Brahman from the dualist view.

 

[godnotgod]

A good quote. Three points:

1. A wave is essentially same as ocean, means stripping the wave of all its attribute of name and form. The water in ocean and water in a wave is same. That is the reality of the reality. But a wave as a wave .. As a name and a form.. Is a wave and it is not ocean.

2. The same article describes mAYA as inscrutable power of Brahman, and not same as Brahman.

3. If one accepts Brahman as the one without a second truth, why should a second called mAyA be introduced and a spurious equality between Brahman and mAYA be established?

........



Brahman is the one without a second reality .. In absolute as well as phenomenal sensual realms. mAyA is inscrutable power of Brahman that makes Brahman appear as discrete many.

Please just answer one simple question:

Is Brahman the only Reality?

 

[Runewolf1973]

The ultimate reality or absolute truth is neither dual, nor is it non-dual. Not one, not two. It is the interaction...where the two become one that is important. The Yin and Yang symbolizes this interaction.




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