What Happens When You Die?

[Runewolf1973]

What further signifies their unity is the fact that, within each half, termed 'Major Yin' and 'Major Yang', are small circles of the opposite color, termed 'Minor Yin' and 'Minor Yang'. IOW, a male has within him a female counterpart and vice versa. This is how closely interrelated Yin and Yang are. BTW, the curved line between them is a moving line of energy, signifying their dynamic relationship.

Yes. Very dynamic, moving, and interactive.

 

[atanu]

Thank you for presenting Brahman from the dualist view.

Your problem, I think is that you are theoretical. Fire is one but we know fire in many forms. Many forms are not untrue. Brahman, similarly appears as Jiva (living being), Iswara (God) and the Universe. At phenomenal level Atanu is a different individual from GodnotGod.


I just presented some text to demonstrate above point from your own citation:

Nature of Reality
As early as the Vedic times, the Rishis investigated the nature of reality from two levels of experience, one of which may be called the absolute, acosmic or transcendental level and the other relative, cosmic or phenomenal level. At the phenomenal level one perceives the universe of diversity and is aware of one's own individual ego, whereas at the transcendental level, the differences merge into an inexplicable non dual consciousness. Both of these levels of experience are real from their respective standpoints, though what is perceived at one level may be negated at the other....

Please just answer one simple question:

Is Brahman the only Reality?

Yes. Vedanta says that Brahman is non dual Truth-Consciousness-Bliss that must be known (and not merely spoken about since Brahman is beyond mind and word).

 

[atanu]

What further signifies their unity is the fact that, within each half, termed 'Major Yin' and 'Major Yang', are small circles of the opposite color, termed 'Minor Yin' and 'Minor Yang'. IOW, a male has within him a female counterpart and vice versa. This is how closely interrelated Yin and Yang are. BTW, the curved line between them is a moving line of energy, signifying their dynamic relationship.

Have you really seen these?

 

[Runewolf1973]

The way I see it Atanu and Godnotgod is that you are both right. On one hand there is that apparent Oneness (reality) while on the other hand there is that apparent duality (illusion). The Ultimate Reality or Absolute Truth Is that BOTH are real. In the very center of reality and illusion lies that Ultimate Reality where All is real and there is no part illusion and there is no part reality. It is the All Knowing, All Reality. There is no part which is not part of that Absolute Reality. Even that "illusion" is part of that which is the Absolute Reality. Reality and illusion are One, not two. Bound together by that interactive force. Reality is the Yin, illusion is the Yang, but they are both connected as One by that constant interaction. That curved line of energy/interaction...that center "ring" of the coin is what holds or binds both reality and illusion together. In that center is that Absolute Reality, that Pure Interaction. The Keeper of Oneness. Each "side" is only part of that Ultimate Reality which is at the very center (middle path) where ALL realities and ALL Iillusions are REAL and ALL is One. We should not perceive Ultimate Reality or Absolute Truth as the extreme end of a spectrum where one end is reality and one end is illusion. That Ultimate Reality or Absolute Truth is at the center, the core, the "ground" of all Being. What lies between that which is percieved as truth and that which is perceived as false is that Absolute Truth.

That is my personal understanding.



---

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I've never died before, so I can't be too certain.

 

[Runewolf1973]

I've never died before, so I can't be too certain.

I have never really died because I have never really lived, but I have been interacting since the beginning of all existence.

 

[godnotgod]

Your problem, I think is that you are theoretical. Fire is one but we know fire in many forms. Many forms are not untrue. Brahman, similarly appears as Jiva (living being), Iswara (God) and the Universe. At phenomenal level Atanu is a different individual from GodnotGod.

The 'differences' are superficial; underneath we are all universally human. All ocean waves are slightly different, making them unique, but underneath, all are composed of universal water. The waves are none other than the ocean itself; you and I are none other than the universal consciousness you call Brahman.

Yes. Vedanta says that Brahman is non dual Truth-Consciousness-Bliss that must be known (and not merely spoken about since Brahman is beyond mind and word).

That was not the question. I asked if Brahman is the only Reality.

 

[Runewolf1973]

The "middle path" is where that interaction takes place. The middle IS that interaction...the joining...the Oneness.

 

[Runewolf1973]

Ordinary human perception is in a way somewhat cross-eyed. If a person crosses their eyes and looks at a stick they will see two sticks. Those two are real, but they are also illusions. Look between those "two" sticks and there will be that unseen Absolute Reality which is in the center. When those eyes are again uncrossed there is only One. I guess, metaphorically speaking, we all need to "uncross" our eyes. Lol.


---

 

[godnotgod]

The way I see it Atanu and Godnotgod is that you are both right. On one hand there is that apparent Oneness (reality) while on the other hand there is that apparent duality (illusion). The Ultimate Reality or Absolute Truth Is that BOTH are real. In the very center of reality and illusion lies that Ultimate Reality where All is real and there is no part illusion and there is no part reality. It is the All Knowing, All Reality. There is no part which is not part of that Absolute Reality. Even that "illusion" is part of that which is the Absolute Reality. Reality and illusion are One, not two. Bound together by that interactive force. Reality is the Yin, illusion is the Yang, but they are both connected as One by that constant interaction. That curved line of energy/interaction...that center "ring" of the coin is what holds or binds both reality and illusion together. In that center is that Absolute Reality, that Pure Interaction. The Keeper of Oneness. Each "side" is only part of that Ultimate Reality which is at the very center (middle path) where ALL realities and ALL Iillusions are REAL and ALL is One. We should not perceive Ultimate Reality or Absolute Truth as the extreme end of a spectrum where one end is reality and one end is illusion. That Ultimate Reality or Absolute Truth is at the center, the core, the "ground" of all Being. What lies between that which is percieved as truth and that which is perceived as false is that Absolute Truth.

That is my personal understanding.



---

It appears that you have made Brahman a relative reality, rather than the Absolute that it actually is. Maya is not real, so there is no 'other' relative value to which the Absolute can be compared. There is ONLY Brahman, but Maya is also Brahman, in the same sense that the rope seen as a 'snake' is, in reality, the rope. There never was a 'snake' from the very beginning, so Brahman remains absolute.


Maya (ignorance) is a power within Brahman. Because it is a power inherent in Brahman and, thus, essentially none other than Brahman in the same way that the wave is nothing other than the ocean, Maya is begining-less.

Q. 346 - brahman, Ishvara and mAyA | Advaita Vision

'The universe IS [none other than] the Absolute as seen through the glass of Time, Space, and Causation.'
Vivekenanda

 

[godnotgod]

Ordinary human perception is in a way somewhat cross-eyed. If a person crosses their eyes and looks at a stick they will see two sticks. Those two are real, but they are also illusions. Look between those "two" sticks and there will be that unseen Absolute Reality which is in the center. When those eyes are again uncrossed there is only One. I guess, metaphorically speaking, we all need to "uncross" our eyes. Lol.


---

Another way of saying it is that, from the point of view of higher consciousness, the world is unreal, but from the point of view of the conditioned mind, the world is real. Thief constantly wants us to do a 'reality check' by banging our heads against a brick wall until bloody. It is higher consciousness, however, that sees things as they actually are, beyond sensory perception. This is Ultimate Reality. The conditioned mind sees things in terms of perceptual reality; ie; via the senses. Herein lies the difference.

 

[Runewolf1973]

It appears that you have made Brahman a relative reality, rather than the Absolute that it actually is. Maya is not real, so there is no 'other' relative value to which the Absolute can be compared. There is ONLY Brahman, but Maya is also Brahman, in the same sense that the rope seen as a 'snake' is, in reality, the rope. There never was a 'snake' from the very beginning, so Brahman remains absolute.


Maya (ignorance) is a power within Brahman. Because it is a power inherent in Brahman and, thus, essentially none other than Brahman in the same way that the wave is nothing other than the ocean, Maya is begining-less.

Q. 346 - brahman, Ishvara and mAyA | Advaita Vision

'The universe IS [none other than] the Absolute as seen through the glass of Time, Space, and Causation.'
Vivekenanda

In a way everything is relative or related. That is the connectivity. Without that "relative" force there would be be no Oneness, no Absolute. Interesting though...

 

[Runewolf1973]

Another way of saying it is that, from the point of view of higher consciousness, the world is unreal, but from the point of view of the conditioned mind, the world is real. Thief constantly wants us to do a 'reality check' by banging our heads against a brick wall until bloody. It is higher consciousness, however, that sees things as they actually are, beyond sensory perception. This is Ultimate Reality. The conditioned mind sees things in terms of perceptual reality; ie; via the senses. Herein lies the difference.

Yes, I agree.

We use different words to descibe that Absolute and sometimes my true meaning doesn't really come out quite the way I want it to, but I think our understanding is the same.

 

[godnotgod]

In a way everything is relative or related. That is the connectivity. Without that "relative" force there would be be no Oneness, no Absolute. Interesting though...

To clarify:

I meant 'relative' in the sense that the absolute is dual. We cannot say that maya is the relative opposite (in terms of Yin/Yang), because maya does not actually exist. It is seeing Brahman as something that it is not. It is seeing a rope as a 'snake'. So Brahman is all there is. It is The Absolute, 'the which of which there is no whicher'. It is not like we are discussing some phenomena that is part of the universe compared to some other phenomena; Brahman is the entirety of the universe itself. It is Everything and there is no relative 'other' to which it can be compared, such 'other' only being a flawed view within the mind.

We either see things as they are or as they are not. To see the universe as The Absolute is to see it as it actually is; to see it as the universe, via the conceptual filters of Time, Space, and Causation, is to see it as something else, and that is the scientific view.

 

[Runewolf1973]

To clarify:

I meant 'relative' in the sense that the absolute is dual. We cannot say that maya is the relative opposite (in terms of Yin/Yang), because maya does not actually exist. It is seeing Brahman as something that it is not. It is seeing a rope as a 'snake'. So Brahman is all there is. It is The Absolute, 'the which of which there is no whicher'. It is not like we are discussing some phenomena that is part of the universe compared to some other phenomena; Brahman is the entirety of the universe itself. It is Everything and there is no relative 'other' to which it can be compared, such 'other' only being a flawed view within the mind.

We either see things as they are or as they are not. To see the universe as The Absolute is to see it as it actually is; to see it as the universe, via the conceptual filters of Time, Space, and Causation, is to see it as something else, and that is the scientific view.

What I meant was that the Absolute is neither dual, nor is it singular. It is not about one verus the other because there is no other. It is the indivisable, the inseparable. It is the interaction that exists between that perceived duality (illusion). It is fundamental because it cannot be broken down into finer constituents. That interaction IS everything that exists.

 

[Thief]

What I meant was that the Absolute is neither dual, nor is it singular. It is not about one verus the other because there is no other. It is the indivisable, the inseparable. It is the interaction that exists between that perceived duality (illusion). It is fundamental because it cannot be broken down into finer constituents. That interaction IS everything that exists.

Negating terms will never allow definition.

You are making an illusion.
Hence your perspective.

 

[Runewolf1973]

Negating terms will never allow definition.

You are making an illusion.
Hence your perspective.

You create your own illusions by basically saying there is a right way as opposed to a wrong way. Whenever there is argument or divisiveness such as this, there is that duality. That you are right and I am wrong mentality is yet another duality and another illusion altogether. There is neither a right way, nor is there a wrong way, there is only the Way.



---

 

[godnotgod]

You create your own illusions by basically saying there is a right way as opposed to a wrong way. Whenever there is argument or divisiveness such as this, there is that duality. That you are right and I am wrong mentality is yet another duality and another illusion altogether. There is neither a right way, nor is there a wrong way, there is only the Way.



---

from a Taoist perspective:


Tao Te Ching: Chapter 1
translated by Charles Muller (1997)

The Tao that can be followed is not the eternal Tao.
The name that can be named is not the eternal name.
The nameless is the origin of heaven and earth
While naming is the origin of the myriad things.
Therefore, always desireless, you see the mystery
Ever desiring, you see the manifestations.
These two are the same —
When they appear they are named differently.
Their sameness is the mystery,
Mystery within mystery;
The door to all marvels.

http://www.earlywomenmasters.net/tao/ch_01.html

 

[s2a]

from a Taoist perspective:


Tao Te Ching: Chapter 1
translated by Charles Muller (1997)

The Tao that can be followed is not the eternal Tao.
The name that can be named is not the eternal name.
The nameless is the origin of heaven and earth
While naming is the origin of the myriad things.
Therefore, always desireless, you see the mystery
Ever desiring, you see the manifestations.
These two are the same —
When they appear they are named differently.
Their sameness is the mystery,
Mystery within mystery;
The door to all marvels.

Chapter 1 : Gender-Inclusive Tao Te Ching : Seal Scripts, Calligraphy, Commentary

*snore*

I feel so...unenlightened.

Back to a good rest...

 

[godnotgod]

EVERYTHING we see, know, or strive to understand/explain...is from stardust. And will be again.

I think that is kinda cool. The rest is just BS and snake oil. And maybe the good Doctor knows it too.

Does your 'everything' include consciousness?