What has happened to Protestantism?

[paarsurrey]

What has happened to Protestantism?​

Spice said:
There were indeed enough Christians to confuse today's populace into thinking the US was founded on Christian principles. It was much more modeled after Iroquois and Roman principles.

" It (U.S. Constitution) was much more modeled after Iroquois "

"I was not aware of this, but I don't live in America, very informative, I rated one's post as " winner":
"When the Founders met in 1787 to create the U.S. Constitution, there were no contemporary democracies in Europe from which they could draw inspiration. The only forms of government they had encountered were those of the Native American tribes. Of particular interest was the Iroquois Confederacy, who had already formed a multi-state government that ensures individual governance and freedoms. The structure of the Confederacy represented five tribes: Mohawk, Onondaga, Cayuga, Oneida and Seneca and was federal in nature, operating under The Great Law of Peace, a doctrine of 117 codicils where individual tribes handled their own affairs but came together to solve issues of common importance. The founders were impressed by how the Iroquois legislated their affairs and shortly thereafter, they drafted the U.S. Constitution echoing the Great Law of Peace. Historians agree the Iroquois wielded a major influence in the writings of the U.S. Constitution. "

Isn't it an amazing thing, but the Iroquois didn't force "democracy" on others, please, right? Did they, please?

Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

What has happened to Protestantism?​

The Protestants has met the same fate as has been faced by Catholicism and the other 45000+ denominations (including the JWs and the Latter Day Saint aka Mormons ) for basing their creeds on the Paulines instead of basing them on the truthful teachings and deeds of (Jesus)Yeshua- the truthful Israelite Messiah ( who was neither a Zealot, nor he belonged to the Zionism people nor to the Judaism people), please, right?

Regards

 

[muhammad_isa]

The Protestants has met the same fate as has been faced by Catholicism and the other 45000+ denominations
...
..please, right?

..and what fate is that? Pray, do tell.

 

[Kathryn]

You know how the Catholic church has different rites? Like the Latin rite, the Byzantine rite, etc? They have a relatively new thing where the Liturgy is based on teh Anglican Book of Common Prayer. It is designed for former Anglicans who become Catholics.

So these Anglicans convert to Catholicism?

 

[paarsurrey]

What has happened to Protestantism?​

The Protestants has met the same fate as has been faced by Catholicism and the other 45000+ denominations (including the JWs and the Latter Day Saint aka Mormons ) for basing their creeds on the Paulines instead of basing them on the truthful teachings and deeds of (Jesus)Yeshua- the truthful Israelite Messiah ( who was neither a Zealot, nor he belonged to the Zionism people nor to the Judaism people), please, right?

Unless they mend their ways and base them on the truthful teachings and deeds of (Jesus)Yeshua their fate of remaining mislead deepens day by day, right, please.

Regards

 

[IndigoChild5559]

So these Anglicans convert to Catholicism?

Correct. They convert to Catholicism, but are able to keep their previous liturgies and traditions that they love.

 

[metis]

Correct. They convert to Catholicism, but are able to keep their previous liturgies and traditions that they love.

Yep, and in the UK, church attendance is much higher with Catholics than with Anglicans.

 

[Kathryn]

Correct. They convert to Catholicism, but are able to keep their previous liturgies and traditions that they love.

I'm sure that there's no difference in what the Church teaches and what the Anglican church teaches. For that matter, there's more in common than not in common among most Protestant churches and the Catholic church, though of course I can't speak for all the thousands of denominations.

 

[paarsurrey]

I'm sure that there's no difference in what the Church teaches and what the Anglican church teaches. For that matter, there's more in common than not in common among most Protestant churches and the Catholic church, though of course I can't speak for all the thousands of denominations.

Even if the Protestantism people convert to Catholicism, I understand, they remain the Deviant Paulines and the Church following the Deviant Pauline- NT Bible, as I understand, they don't become truthful followers of (Jesus) Yeshua- Messiah in his teaching and deed , right, please?

Regards

 

[Kathryn]

Even if the Protestantism people convert to Catholicism, I understand, they remain the Deviant Paulines and the Church following the Deviant Pauline- NT Bible, as I understand, they don't become truthful followers of (Jesus) Yeshua- Messiah in his teaching and deed , right, please?

Regards

I honestly don't know. But I am talking only about specific prayers and liturgies. Today was the Feast of the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ in the Catholic Church, and I don't believe that many non Catholics believe in the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist.

 

[paarsurrey]

paarsurrey said:
Even if the Protestantism people convert to Catholicism, I understand, they remain the Deviant Paulines and the Church following the Deviant Pauline- NT Bible, as I understand, they don't become truthful followers of (Jesus) Yeshua- Messiah in his teaching and deed , right, please?

I honestly don't know. But I am talking only about specific prayers and liturgies. Today was the Feast of the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ in the Catholic Church, and I don't believe that many non Catholics believe in the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist.

As for the liturgies being performed in the Pauline Deviant denominations/Churches, 45000+ of them none of them is from (Jesus)Yeshua- the truthful Israelite Messiah ( who was neither a Zealot, nor he belonged to the Zionism people nor to the Judaism people), please, right?

Regards

 

[Kathryn]

paarsurrey said:
Even if the Protestantism people convert to Catholicism, I understand, they remain the Deviant Paulines and the Church following the Deviant Pauline- NT Bible, as I understand, they don't become truthful followers of (Jesus) Yeshua- Messiah in his teaching and deed , right, please?

As for the liturgies being performed in the Pauline Deviant denominations/Churches, 45000+ of them none of them is from (Jesus)Yeshua- the truthful Israelite Messiah ( who was neither a Zealot, nor he belonged to the Zionism people nor to the Judaism people), please, right?

Regards

I converted to Catholicism from a protestant background and no, I don't recall any Deviant anything. I follow the Roman Catholic Church and the Roman Catholic bible. Otherwise I would not have gone through the considerable hassle of converting (which takes nearly a year).

 

[paarsurrey]

What has happened to Protestantism?
paarsurrey said:
Even if the Protestantism people convert to Catholicism, I understand, they remain the Deviant Paulines and the Church following the Deviant Pauline- NT Bible, as I understand, they don't become truthful followers of (Jesus) Yeshua- Messiah in his teaching and deed , right, please?
As for the liturgies being performed in the Pauline Deviant denominations/Churches, 45000+ of them none of them is from (Jesus)Yeshua- the truthful Israelite Messiah ( who was neither a Zealot, nor he belonged to the Zionism people nor to the Judaic stock aka Jews), please, right?

I converted to Catholicism from a protestant background and no, I don't recall any Deviant anything. I follow the Roman Catholic Church and the Roman Catholic bible. Otherwise I would not have gone through the considerable hassle of converting (which takes nearly a year).

Jesus was a "Jew" and he did things as Jews did following Moses, not as Protestants do and or Catholic do, and if they changed a part then they are the Deviants Paulines, right?

Regards
______________
Was there a Liturgy in the Early Church?
"Some people (including some Christians) think that, in the early church, there wasn’t any liturgy as we have today. They may believe that it was an invention by the Church and not established by Christ Himself. The official written forms of the liturgy we have today are from the 4th century"

Was there a Liturgy in the Early Church? | Coptic Orthodox Answers

In the early church, there wasn’t any liturgy as we have today. They may believe that it was an invention by the Church and not established by Christ Himself. The official written forms of the liturgy we have today are from the 4th century, which is already very early in the Church

copticorthodoxanswers.org

 

[RabbiO]

Even if the Protestantism people convert to Catholicism, I understand, they remain the Deviant Paulines and the Church following the Deviant Pauline- NT Bible, as I understand, they don't become truthful followers of (Jesus) Yeshua- Messiah in his teaching and deed , right, please?
As for the liturgies being performed in the Pauline Deviant denominations/Churches, 45000+ of them none of them is from (Jesus)Yeshua- the truthful Israelite Messiah ( who was neither a Zealot, nor he belonged to the Zionism people nor to the Judaic stock aka Jews), please, right?

I’m impressed. You managed to disrespect, denigrate, dismiss and insult Judaism, Jews, Christianity and Christians all in one post.

Congratulations. With one post you have managed to put the lie to the signature banner at the bottom of your posts.

 

[shunyadragon]

I was baptized an Anglican a few weeks ago.

I am finding, however, that young Protestants (under 30 or 35) seem to take Protestantism to mean:

1. No liturgy.

2. No Tradition.

3. No Saints.

4. Bible only.

5. Rock music.

Etc.

This is not Anglicanism, the largest Protestant denomination in the world. This is not Lutheranism, either.

What is going on?

Do people think liturgy = RCC?

Saints = RCC?

Tradition = RCC?

I have grown up with Anglicanism and we have and always have had all these things.

Wtf is happening to Protestantism?

Bible only Protestant denominations are nothing new to Christianity, and actually became prevalent in rural 19th century America,

My concern is the rise of the fundamentalist belief in a literal or near literal interpretation of the the Pentateuch. in the 20th century and the rise of conspiracy theories and rejection of science concerning issues like COVID-19 and global warming.

 

[shunyadragon]

What has happened to Protestantism?
paarsurrey said:
Even if the Protestantism people convert to Catholicism, I understand, they remain the Deviant Paulines and the Church following the Deviant Pauline- NT Bible, as I understand, they don't become truthful followers of (Jesus) Yeshua- Messiah in his teaching and deed , right, please?
As for the liturgies being performed in the Pauline Deviant denominations/Churches, 45000+ of them none of them is from (Jesus)Yeshua- the truthful Israelite Messiah ( who was neither a Zealot, nor he belonged to the Zionism people nor to the Judaic stock aka Jews), please, right?

Jesus was a "Jew" and he did things as Jews did following Moses, not as Protestants do and or Catholic do, and if they changed a part then they are the Deviants Paulines, right?

Regards
______________
Was there a Liturgy in the Early Church?
"Some people (including some Christians) think that, in the early church, there wasn’t any liturgy as we have today. They may believe that it was an invention by the Church and not established by Christ Himself. The official written forms of the liturgy we have today are from the 4th century"

Was there a Liturgy in the Early Church? | Coptic Orthodox Answers

In the early church, there wasn’t any liturgy as we have today. They may believe that it was an invention by the Church and not established by Christ Himself. The official written forms of the liturgy we have today are from the 4th century, which is already very early in the Church

copticorthodoxanswers.org

Not the subject of the thread. Get off your soap box, The subject is the changes in recent history among Protestants. Particularly Anglican and .Lutheranism

 

[shunyadragon]

Except this is not Anglicanism or Lutheranism, the two largest Prot denominations out there.

So what is going on.

I believe this does represent changes in Anglicanism and Lutheranism, and in the other denominations. I believe the tendency for the rejection of traditions is to a certain extent common through out Christianity.

 

[shunyadragon]

Except this is not Anglicanism or Lutheranism, the two largest Prot denominations out there.

So what is going on.

Anglicanism and Lutheranism of today is not same as in the past like all of Christianity.

I do believe that many look back at the history of these and other denominations and are not comfortable with the past,

 

[IndigoChild5559]

As far as Saints go, that's simply not recognized in many Protestant denominations. Saints may be honored and remembered for their righteousness and wisdom, but they were merely mortal man and are not revered or prayed to, etc.

I'm not sure, but it appears that you may have a misunderstanding. No one out there believes that the Saints are anything more than regular human beings that have simply done something exemplary, like advocate orthodoxy, devoting their lives to the poor, or doing miracles. They are not thought of as "immortal" since clearly they have died. When I say "no one" I am of course including Catholics, Anglicans, the Orthodox, and Lutherans.

Among those churches that revere the saints, they pray to the Saints in order to have the Saints pray for them. These churches have a different concept of "The Church" in which those in heaven are just as much a part of the Church as those still alive on earth.

The "communion of saints" is a doctrine in Christian theology that refers to the spiritual unity and fellowship shared among all believers in Jesus, both living and dead. It is based on the belief that all Christians, regardless of their earthly state (alive or deceased), are connected through their shared faith in Jesus and are part of a single spiritual community.

Thus, for these Christians, asking a Saint for their prayers is really no different than asking the person in the pew next to them for their prayers, with the only distinction being that the Saints are righteous and "the prayer of a righteous man availeth much."

These Saints are not at all thought of as gods. So talking to them is not the same thing as worship.

Now do I personally think the dead hear us? No. It's not the point. The point here is understanding why these Christians ask the Saints for their prayers, and not misrepresenting them.

 

[metis]

I'm not sure, but it appears that you may have a misunderstanding. No one out there believes that the Saints are anything more than regular human beings that have simply done something exemplary, like advocate orthodoxy, devoting their lives to the poor, or doing miracles. They are not thought of as "immortal" since clearly they have died. When I say "no one" I am of course including Catholics, Anglicans, the Orthodox, and Lutherans.

Among those churches that revere the saints, they pray to the Saints in order to have the Saints pray for them. These churches have a different concept of "The Church" in which those in heaven are just as much a part of the Church as those still alive on earth.

Well said!!!

BTW, are you sure you're not a "closet Catholic"?