What IF McCain Wins? What Will You Do?

[Apex]

Well, it depends on how you define war. Technically we're not at war now.

I DO blame Congress for handing Dubya a blank check, but he's the one who used it.

Can you address the second part of my question?

And, if so, can you please explain why they are never mentioned when blame for this war is discussed?

 

[The Voice of Reason]

What is the difference between choosing a candidate because of race and choosing because of age?

Well, at the end of the next four years, Obama will still be black. I'll guarantee it.

Will you guarantee that McCain will still be alive in four years?

 

[Storm]

Can you address the second part of my question?

I thought I did, and I'm not sure what you want me to expand on.

I blame Congress for a lot of things, but I think the blame has to be proportionate.

 

[The Voice of Reason]

One question for everyone who thinks the President now has full power to bring this Country to war.

Do you place any blame on Congress, who is the only entity legally given the right to declare war, for the US entering the current war? And, if so, can you please explain why they are never mentioned when blame for this war is discussed?

The President (by virtue of the War Powers Act) can take the country to war. As you have stated, the Congress has the right to declare war. As for the current war, the Bush administration clearly led us down the path to war, via the use of lies, distortions, and fanning the flames.

With that said, Congress has to wear their share of the blame (or credit, if that is how you see it).

I may be wrong, but it certainly looks like one faction on this site is trying to sell the idea that Bush and company is lilly white in this fiasco. You and both know the truth - whether one of us admits it or not.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Well, at the end of the next four years, Obama will still be black. I'll guarantee it.

And you would be wrong my friend. Barrack is not truly black now, is he?

Will you guarantee that McCain will still be alive in four years?

Back at ya Scarecrow, can you guarantee Obama will even live to be sworn in? None of us know how much time the Lord gives us on this earth. Old folks get older and babies die every year. It is tragic but true.

 

[Reverend Rick]

The President (by virtue of the War Powers Act) can take the country to war. As you have stated, the Congress has the right to declare war. As for the current war, the Bush administration clearly led us down the path to war, via the use of lies, distortions, and fanning the flames.

With that said, Congress has to wear their share of the blame (or credit, if that is how you see it).

I may be wrong, but it certainly looks like one faction on this site is trying to sell the idea that Bush and company is lilly white in this fiasco. You and both know the truth - whether one of us admits it or not.

That explains why the Democratic controlled Congress has an even lower approval rating than George W. Bush.

 

[Apex]

The President (by virtue of the War Powers Act) can take the country to war. As you have stated, the Congress has the right to declare war. As for the current war, the Bush administration clearly led us down the path to war, via the use of lies, distortions, and fanning the flames.

With that said, Congress has to wear their share of the blame (or credit, if that is how you see it).

I may be wrong, but it certainly looks like one faction on this site is trying to sell the idea that Bush and company is lilly white in this fiasco. You and both know the truth - whether one of us admits it or not.

I still can't see how Bush made us enter this war by himself. The War Powers Act does not allow the President to begin a war, it prevents him from doing so with the 60 day limit. All Congress had to do is not declare war. Why could they not just have said "NO"? Is it really so difficult? Or is Congress really that blind?

 

[Reverend Rick]

I still can't see how Bush made us enter this war by himself. The War Powers Act does not allow the President to begin a war, it prevents him from doing so with the 60 day limit. All Congress had to do is not declare war. Why could they not just have said "NO"? Is it really so difficult? Or is Congress really that blind?

It is easier to blame the President than to take responsibility Apex. Frubals to you my friend.

 

[The Voice of Reason]

And you would be wrong my friend. Barrack is not truly black now, is he? Back at ya Scarecrow, can you guarantee Obama will even live to be sworn in? None of us know how much time the Lord gives us on this earth. Old folks get older and babies die every year. It is tragic but true.

I think you misunderstood your own question.

You asked for the difference between age and race. I don't care what race McCain is, or how old Obama is. I was addressing your question, as you asked it.

As for Obama's race, if you don't want to pigeonhole him as black, you'll have to help me understand what the point of asking about playing the race card really meant.

 

[The Voice of Reason]

That explains why the Democratic controlled Congress has an even lower approval rating than George W. Bush.

I love your devotion Rick. You've had it pointed out to you (on numerous occasions) that the approval rating of Congress reflects on both parties, almost equally. Yet, in spite of that, you wish to act as if it is solely the fault of the Democrats.

In all honesty, that is fine with me. That very inability to admit your own culpability is what has led your party to the position that they are currently in. You are looking at not only losing the White House - you are going to be in the minority in both houses of congress.

And it is going to be a while before the electorate of this country is going to trust the Republicans again. Quite a while.

Enjoy the hiatus, Rick.

 

[Reverend Rick]

I think you misunderstood your own question.

You asked for the difference between age and race. I don't care what race McCain is, or how old Obama is. I was addressing your question, as you asked it.

As for Obama's race, if you don't want to pigeonhole him as black, you'll have to help me understand what the point of asking about playing the race card really meant.

I did not play the race card, I played the age card. I will make it simple, Why is it OK to discriminate on the basis of age? You act like this practice is perfectly acceptable to you. Please tell me I am wrong.

 

[Alceste]

I still can't see how Bush made us enter this war by himself. The War Powers Act does not allow the President to begin a war, it prevents him from doing so with the 60 day limit. All Congress had to do is not declare war. Why could they not just have said "NO"? Is it really so difficult? Or is Congress really that blind?

Maybe congress was aware the invasion of Iraq had already begun before they were given the opportunity to vote on it, and felt they had no choice.

14th August 2001 - war starts
4 September 2002 - Bush considers seeking the approval of congress for war

It's preposterous to keep insisting congress could have done anything to prevent the neo-cons plans for Iraq being carried out. The PNAC administration was hell-bent. Nothing could have stopped them from continuing with the invasion - not even a congressional "no" vote. They would have found a way around it. Some bootlicking lawyer willing to declare that Bush had the right to go to war without congressional approval would have shown up to earn himself a department of justice job.

Perhaps congress only wanted to maintain the illusion that America was still a functioning democracy.

 

[The Voice of Reason]

I still can't see how Bush made us enter this war by himself. The War Powers Act does not allow the President to begin a war, it prevents him from doing so with the 60 day limit. All Congress had to do is not declare war. Why could they not just have said "NO"? Is it really so difficult? Or is Congress really that blind?

Of course Congress had the right to say "NO". Many in Congress did - but not enough. You know that. You can read, and you are an intelligent person.

You are quite right about the rhetorical question "Is Congress really that blind?" They absolutely were. They were blinded by the skewed and limited intelligence that they were given by the Bush administration.

Are you suggesting that Congress had the exact same intelligence that the Bush administration had? Are you suggesting that Bush and company didn't do everything possible to drum up support for this war?

 

[Alceste]

I did not play the race card, I played the age card. I will make it simple, Why is it OK to discriminate on the basis of age? You act like this practice is perfectly acceptable to you. Please tell me I am wrong.

Yes, it's OK. Especially when the job requires a reasonable amount of physical health. Do you want your president recovering from a triple bypass surgery the next time Osama bin Laden blows up a building? Of course not.

 

[Reverend Rick]

I can wrap this whole thing up for everyone. It was a contest to prove who had the most stupidity and it was a statistical tie.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Yes, it's OK. Especially when the job requires a reasonable amount of physical health. Do you want your president recovering from a triple bypass surgery the next time Osama bin Laden blows up a building? Of course not.

We have laws against age discrimination Alceste. I am amazed at how many people are insensitive to this.

 

[The Voice of Reason]

I did not play the race card, I played the age card.

- and -

What is the difference between choosing a candidate because of race and choosing because of age?

Either you can't ask a straight question, or I can't read. The second quote from you (above) clearly asks the difference between choosing a President based on age or race. I answered your question.

I will make it simple, Why is it OK to discriminate on the basis of age? You act like this practice is perfectly acceptable to you. Please tell me I am wrong.

I will make it simple. The vast majority of people do not oppose McCain based on his age - they oppose him based on his policies (or lack thereof).

Your attempt to portray his sinking polling numbers as a case of age discrimination is pretty transparent.

 

[The Voice of Reason]

We have laws against age discrimination Alceste. I am amazed at how many people are insensitive to this.

Your indignation is duly noted.

 

[Apex]

Maybe congress was aware the invasion of Iraq had already begun before they were given the opportunity to vote on it, and felt they had no choice.

14th August 2001 - war starts
4 September 2002 - Bush considers seeking the approval of congress for war

It's preposterous to keep insisting congress could have done anything to prevent the neo-cons plans for Iraq being carried out. The PNAC administration was hell-bent. Nothing could have stopped them from continuing with the invasion - not even a congressional "no" vote. They would have found a way around it. Some bootlicking lawyer willing to declare that Bush had the right to go to war without congressional approval would have shown up to earn himself a department of justice job.

Perhaps congress only wanted to maintain the illusion that America was still a functioning democracy.

Thats one of most ridiculous explanations I have heard yet. At least VoR's explanation made sense. This one has none.

 

[Apex]

Of course Congress had the right to say "NO". Many in Congress did - but not enough. You know that. You can read, and you are an intelligent person.

True, but that does not excuse them.

You are quite right about the rhetorical question "Is Congress really that blind?" They absolutely were. They were blinded by the skewed and limited intelligence that they were given by the Bush administration.

Are you suggesting that Congress had the exact same intelligence that the Bush administration had? Are you suggesting that Bush and company didn't do everything possible to drum up support for this war?

I don't buy the "Bush tricked Congress" theory. I have seen no evidence, other than overly emotional rants, indicating he with held intelligence, that he actually had at the time, which would have turned the vote to the other direction.