What if we accepted each others Religion?

[sayak83]

Well no one should be compelled to worship the way another religion worships. But in interfaith all these faiths do come together and pray. They probably have a common verbal prayer which each say from their respective religion but say their diverse special forms of prayer in their own communities.

I am sorry, but a verbal prayer to an imageless deity is a very specific kind of prayer and is not a common type of prayer beyond the Abrahamic circles. So what you are saying in effect is that you wish impose the type of prayer that you have in your religious group upon everyone by calling it universal by fiat. That is not acceptance of each others religions....not by a long shot.
To accept each others religion, the people should have common worship building where one day everyone prays like the tradition X and ten on another day everyone prays like tradition Y and so on....be it through ceremonies in front of idols, or through namaz, or through Christian mass, or through pagan or vodun rituals, or through meditation and yoga. Actively practice and participate on every path at least say once a month and immerse in that spiritual world fully when doing so. Then discuss and understand the teachings with practicing masters of those paths without prejudice or pre-conceptions. If every community everywhere in the world has, in their locality one such inter-spiritual house with full communal partcipation, then yes...I believe true progress and mutual understanding is possible. The bahai way is just another sectarian way, same old same old. That is not the solution.

 

[Dao Hao Now]

So your answer to…

And accept that only through him will you be able to enter heaven?
You accept him as the last prophet of God?

Your reply is;

They are interpretations.

In other words no?
Why the equivocation?
You understand that your’s is also an interpretation, and that they are central tenets of those religions, yes?


In answer to…

So you’re discounting the 4.5 billion adherents?

Your reply is:

The adherents follow them blindly and mostly do not question them.

Are you suggesting these Christian, Buddhist, Muslim, adherents who “would visit each others places of worship to meditate and pray together”are less studious in their faith and follow it blindly and without question unlike who….
you and other Baha’i?


Your third swing at:

You accept him as the last prophet of God?

Is…..

We accept Muhammad as the last Prophet of the Prophetic cycle. It is clearly stated in the Quran He is the seal of the Prophets not the seal of the Messengers.

So your going with another equivocation; this time trying to split hairs between a “prophet” and a “messenger” with;

The Messengers are Ones Who bring a new Revelation, the Prophets are those Who prophecy and warn.

Are you suggesting that the Quran (which you profess to “accept”) is not a revelation spoken directly from Allah through Muhammad?
Is it only prophesy and warnings?
How would not Muhammad, being the one who Allah spoke through, be considered a messenger?

No where in your interpretation that followed did I see a distinction between a “prophet” and a “messenger” or a prophesy of a future “messenger”.


Revisiting the question:

And accept that only through him will you be able to enter heaven?

Where of course the him being referred to is Jesus, you give it another shot with;

We believe heaven is not a place but nearness to God. So we cannot become close to God except through His Prophets and Messengers. So if we do not accept Christ we forfeit heaven so to speak.

There’s that equivocation again.
I suppose missing that pesky word “only” was an oversight?
Let’s try again:
Do you accept that ONLY through accepting Jesus as your lord and savior will you be able to enter heaven?……You know the central tenet of Christianity.
Just to be sure you understand without equivocation, this does not mean accept Jesus along with others, but rather accepting Jesus solely as your one and only lord and savior.

Baha’is have accepted Christ both when He came the first time and when He returned.

Am I interpreting your obfuscation here correctly….
Are you suggesting here that Baha’u’llah was a reincarnation of Jesus?

 

[Rival]

am sorry, but a verbal prayer to an imageless deity is a very specific kind of prayer and is not a common type of prayer beyond the Abrahamic circles. So what you are saying in effect is that you wish impose the type of prayer that you have in your religious group upon everyone by calling it universal by fiat. That is not acceptance of each others religions....not by a long shot.

Christians also use icons and have statues, so it's basically limiting this to very specific Abrahamics, too.

 

[loverofhumanity]

I am sorry, but a verbal prayer to an imageless deity is a very specific kind of prayer and is not a common type of prayer beyond the Abrahamic circles. So what you are saying in effect is that you wish impose the type of prayer that you have in your religious group upon everyone by calling it universal by fiat. That is not acceptance of each others religions....not by a long shot.
To accept each others religion, the people should have common worship building where one day everyone prays like the tradition X and ten on another day everyone prays like tradition Y and so on....be it through ceremonies in front of idols, or through namaz, or through Christian mass, or through pagan or vodun rituals, or through meditation and yoga. Actively practice and participate on every path at least say once a month and immerse in that spiritual world fully when doing so. Then discuss and understand the teachings with practicing masters of those paths without prejudice or pre-conceptions. If every community everywhere in the world has, in their locality one such inter-spiritual house with full communal partcipation, then yes...I believe true progress and mutual understanding is possible. The bahai way is just another sectarian way, same old same old. That is not the solution.

Thats all very possible.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Well, you wrote a response. But it didn't address my points.

None of this is relevant to the fact that you didn't answer his question.

Which points do you feel we’re not addressed.? I’m not sure which post you’re referring to as I’ve answered some of your questions.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Which points do you feel we’re not addressed.? I’m not sure which post you’re referring to as I’ve answered some of your questions.

The truth is, there is no answer to my points. It would be like saying there is an answer to stars existing. I pointed out that there are irreconcilable differences between different religions. There really is nothing you can do or say about that. Nothing.

 

[Vinayaka]

Extremism is not just violence but includes prejudice and hatred by religionists towards other religions which exists all over the world. At the worst extreme it involves violence and killing but also condemning each other’s Prophets and condescension of others. Basically anything beyond Ahimhsa is leaning towards extremism and that can be verbal and written as well.

Yes I know that. But that wasn't my question. Reiterating the basic point that this world is a terrible place doesn't explain why you include all of humanity in your statements, when 90%, probably much higher, aren't extremist at all. Look around at your own neighbours in your beautiful country. Do you see any extremists.

Besides, terms like terrorist, and extremist are bandied about loosely, and often just refer to 'the other side', to cause an emotional reaction. Personally, I try to look deeper.

 

[loverofhumanity]

The truth is, there is no answer to my points. It would be like saying there is an answer to stars existing. I pointed out that there are irreconcilable differences between different religions. There really is nothing you can do or say about that. Nothing.

Yes I understand what you mean. With Baha’is we come from all the conflicting viewpoints but are united and have reconciled our differences. For example I am from Catholic background while others are from other sects and also from Buddhist, Hindu, Jew, Muslim, Zoroastrian and they are from the different sects of their own religion yet we are reconciled. So there is a way they can all reconcile. We are living proof of it. We come back to the thing in common that we have found unites us and that is that the Promised One of our respective religions. So for Buddhists, Hindus, Christians, Jews and so on they have arrived at the conclusion from their own religious background that He has come and it all points for them each to the same Person - Baha’u’llah. Without Baha’u’llah I agree that the differences are difficult but not impossible.

 

[Vinayaka]

From

To

This brings to mind something about a pot and a kettle.
For what it’s worth, I had no idea the OP was written by a Baha’i when I looked at it.

It started if with an appeal towards inclusiveness, then the very first sentence is:

Which is of course exclusionary.
And the jumped straight to:

Which I read as:
Christians would “accept” Buddha and Muhammad as legitimate prophets or intermediaries to “salvation”.
Buddhists would “accept” Christ and Baha’u’llah and presumably Muhammed as a path towards enlightenment and liberation.

It’s important to note, this is not the same as
say Christians “accepting” (as in being tolerant of) Buddhists and Muslims and Baha’i and
vice versa.
But specifically “accepting” their prophet/founders presumably as being at least theoretically legitimate.
I must admit to my spidey sense being alerted at this point.

Of course about half way through it became apparent with the quote


I was content merely reading along until 83 posts in when the “switch” came with:

To which I pointed out:

To the part about a “link” connecting the religions and being part of “one unfolding process “.

And further pointed out:

To the part about “we” (Baha’is) believing that Baha’u’llah was “prophesied” by, and an “integral” part of “their” beliefs and “fulfills” their prophecies.

I then finished with:


Thus the criticism was not “simply because it is Baha’i”, but rather because it went of the rails of reality with the bait of…..

“why can’t we be inclusive and all get along”,
to the switch of……

“we’ve incorporated the parts of your religions that we accept (while eschewing the core parts that differentiate each from the other) so why can’t you accept the part that you deem heretical which differentiates our religion and be like “us” so we can all get along.”


This is a debate forum.
If you are adverse to criticisms and have a thin skin it would appear you’re in the wrong place.

Yes, as I know too well. this has been the technique on this forum for several years. Start a topic, wait for a few other posts, and then insert Baha'i philosophy ideas. A few years back I'd have personal side bets on which post it would happen. Usually before post 10. Good on you for figuring it out quickly. I also think there is a monthly goal on such things, as it's usually about a month before another very similar thread starts, as the current one eventually runs itself into silence. So it's very much bait, and sneaky proselytizing. But each time seems to get worse, as there are more people knowing about it and responding.

 

[Rival]

So for Buddhists, Hindus, Christians, Jews and so on they have arrived at the conclusion from their own religious background that He has come

Jews believe no such thing. Nor Buddhists nor Hindus, as far as I know.

 

[Vinayaka]

I imagine since there are only about 8-10 million Baha'i, that there are over 2.3 billion Christians is a hugely significant number....

That number is extremely debatable, and relies on Baha'i sources that are clearly exaggerated. One reason is that people leave or become inactive and aren't taken off the count. The census of India, last count, had 4500 Bahais yet the Bahai count is 2 million. Go figure. The reason is that many villagers will just sign the card to get a person off their back, and then that's an official new member. I investigated all this a few years back. The motivation for the investigation was a look at Baha'i sourced information about western Canada, right where I live, and an actual ghost town/former community was listed on their website as having a Baha'i presence. People far more familiar with it than I am estimate it to be under a million, at the very most 2 million. It's a tough number to determine, and independent researchers like Pew won't put a lot of time into it.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Yes I know that. But that wasn't my question. Reiterating the basic point that this world is a terrible place doesn't explain why you include all of humanity in your statements, when 90%, probably much higher, aren't extremist at all. Look around at your own neighbours in your beautiful country. Do you see any extremists.

Besides, terms like terrorist, and extremist are bandied about loosely, and often just refer to 'the other side', to cause an emotional reaction. Personally, I try to look deeper.

It was just one example of mindsets that can be addressed in the world. In Australia we are specifically struggling with things like mental illnesses such as depression, domestic violence, drug and alcohol addiction and loneliness.

 

[SalixIncendium]

We come back to the thing in common that we have found unites us and that is that the Promised One of our respective religions. So for Buddhists, Hindus, Christians, Jews and so on they have arrived at the conclusion from their own religious background that He has come and it all points for them each to the same Person - Baha’u’llah. Without Baha’u’llah I agree that the differences are difficult but not impossible.

Pure nonsense is nonsense.

I started to elaborate, but I won't waste my time, because I'm confident it will fall on deaf ears. Again, learn about other religions before you try to cram them all into your little box.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Jews believe no such thing. Nor Buddhists nor Hindus, as far as I know.

It’s all true and can be found in their respective scriptures.

 

[Vinayaka]

It was just one example of mindsets that can be addressed in the world. In Australia we are specifically struggling with things like mental illnesses such as depression, domestic violence, drug and alcohol addiction and loneliness.

Which does not address the question. What about the 90% of people who live totally normal, caring lives? And exactly how are you personally addressing those problems? To see the challenge is one thing, but to actually propose solutions, and do something is another.

 

[Vinayaka]

It’s all true and can be found in their respective scriptures.

As I've said close to 100 times before, in Hinduism, it applies to one sect only.

 

[Rival]

It’s all true and can be found in their respective scriptures.

If you are talking about a Messiah figure, the Jews don't believe he has come yet, and the Dharmics have no such figure.

 

[SalixIncendium]

It’s all true and can be found in their respective scriptures.

Show me.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Pure nonsense is nonsense.

I started to elaborate, but I won't waste my time, because I'm confident it will fall on deaf ears. Again, learn about other religions before you try to cram them all into your little box.

I respect that you choose to differ.

 

[SalixIncendium]

As I've said close to 100 times before, in Hinduism, it applies to one sect only.

For my own knowledge, Hare Krishna?