What if we accepted each others Religion?

[SalixIncendium]

I respect that you choose to differ.

Differ from what? Mistruths and false statements? Or proselytizing?

 

[Vinayaka]

For my own knowledge, Hare Krishna?

Any Gaudiya Vaishnavism, or any sect believing in Kalki. In Saivism, we don't believe in prophets, period, so Kalki isn't part of it. But nobody at all believes Baha'ullah matches that description whatsoever.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

I respect that you choose to differ.

Do you respect the spiritual truths of religions that aren't considered major ones, such as Wicca and Druidry, or religious movements like Spiritualism?

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

I respect that you choose to differ.

Do you really?

While I can't speak for others, all I see is repeated proselytizing on your part. Are you purposefully disregarding those who call you out on it?

 

[loverofhumanity]

If you are talking about a Messiah figure, the Jews don't believe he has come yet, and the Dharmics have no such figure.

There are both Jews and Buddhists who believe their messiah figure has come.

See Sutta Central no. 8

SuttaCentral

Early Buddhist texts from the Tipitaka (Tripitaka). Suttas (sutras) with the Buddha's teachings on mindfulness, insight, wisdom, and meditation.

suttacentral.net

 

[Rival]

There are both Jews and Buddhists who believe their messiah figure has come.

See Sutta Central no. 8

SuttaCentral

Early Buddhist texts from the Tipitaka (Tripitaka). Suttas (sutras) with the Buddha's teachings on mindfulness, insight, wisdom, and meditation.

suttacentral.net

You know you are talking about minority groups. You cannot use the minority groups to represent the whole. You cannot use unitarian Christians to represent the majority of Christians. Please stop using this dishonest tactic.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Do you respect the spiritual truths of religions that aren't considered major ones, such as Wicca and Druidry, or religious movements like Spiritualism?

We have things in common that I can provide some quotes for. Hope this helps.

Nature

Nature is God's Will and is its expression in and through the contingent world. It is a dispensation of Providence ordained by the Ordainer, the All-Wise. Were anyone to affirm that it is the Will of God as manifested in the world of being, no one should question this assertion.

Praying for the departed

“Those who have ascended have different attributes from those who are still on earth, yet there is no real separation. "In prayer there is a mingling of station, a mingling of condition. Pray for them as they pray for you! When you do not know it, and are in a receptive attitude, they are able to make suggestions to you, if you are in difficulty.”

‘Abdu’l-Bahá in London
‘Abdu’l-Bahá

 

[loverofhumanity]

You know you are talking about minority groups. You cannot use the minority groups to represent the whole. You cannot use unitarian Christians to represent the majority of Christians. Please stop using this dishonest tactic.

Yes only individuals have embraced these beliefs. There has not so far been a majority of any one religion accept these beliefs yet. I meant individuals. Sorry if that wasn’t clear enough.

 

[Rival]

Yes only individuals have embraced these beliefs. There has not so far been a majority of any one religion accept these beliefs yet. I meant individuals. Sorry if that wasn’t clear enough.

That's fine, but still can't be used to bolster your beliefs. It's not a good argument; it won't convince people.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Do you really?

While I can't speak for others, all I see is repeated proselytizing on your part. Are you purposefully disregarding those who call you out on it?

I’m just trying to answer questions the best I can and do not intentionally disregard anyone. Sorry you feel that way.

 

[LuisDantas]

There are both Jews and Buddhists who believe their messiah figure has come.

Uh, no. I don't think so.

 

[Mark Charles Compton]

You know you are talking about minority groups. You cannot use the minority groups to represent the whole. You cannot use unitarian Christians to represent the majority of Christians. Please stop using this dishonest tactic.

I would propose that you can use the main premises that relate all Christians to represent the majority.

• Submit yourself to God.​

• Treat others as you would have them treat you.​

• Treat your enemies as neighbors and break bread with them.​

• Forgive those who trespass against you.​

• Keep the Sabbath and the Commandments.​

Etc... If choose to focus on the 10% of differences between humanity, you might miss out on the 90% of similarities.

 

[loverofhumanity]

That's fine, but still can't be used to bolster your beliefs. It's not a good argument; it won't convince people.

Yes probably not. Perhaps in the future when we have grown considerably.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

what I call intolerance is when some atheists consistently denigrate certain things that they don't like about the Baha'i Faith, such as the Baha'i law that pertains to homosexuality, calling Baha'is bigots, just because Baha'u'llah revealed that law.

OK. Perhaps that's a form of intolerance - an intolerance of intolerance. There's a name for that, Popper's Paradox: "The paradox of tolerance states that if a society's practice of tolerance is inclusive of the intolerant, intolerance will ultimately dominate, eliminating the tolerant and the practice of tolerance with them. Karl Popper describes the paradox as arising from the seemingly self-contradictory idea that, in order to maintain a tolerant society, the society must retain the right to be intolerant of intolerance."

Having a particular law in the Book of Laws is not bigotry on the part of the Baha'is, not by any stretch of the imagination

I disagree. I think that you limit bigotry to feelings of hatred. There is also something that can be called cold bigotry, which can be well-meaning but misinformed, such as the idea that women are happier without an education and home raising children. That idea might be sincerely believed and constructively offered, but it's still bigotry.

Bigotry: obstinate or unreasonable attachment to a belief, opinion, or faction; in particular, prejudice against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group.

That describes Abrahamic homophobia to me.

I do not define that as intolerance, not unless Christians who believe those scriptures have an unwillingness to accept atheists who have views that differ from their own.

OK. What you are saying is that not all believers accept the description of unbelievers that the scriptures offer. I agree. The bigots are the ones who accept the message, and there are plenty of them, albeit they generally get it indirectly from their clergy, who like to marginalize and demonize atheists and atheism.

One thing I will not tolerate without speaking up is being called homophobic because I am not.

homophobia: dislike of or prejudice against gay people.

You promulgate a homophobic message. You believe and teach that your god disapproves of homosexuals. That's a good god, right - one who is just and loving and fair, right? Your objection is that you don't feel hatred for homosexuals and resent being included with those who do. I don't see how you have much choice if you don't disavow at least this part of your religious dicta, and though I would love it if you did, I don't expect you to do that just to be separated from the homophobia your faith teaches.

I know lots of homosexuals in real life and I do not dislike any of them. I like them very much and I do not consider their sexual orientation or what they do in their private lives 'my business' because it isn't. I have no negative attitudes or feelings toward homosexuality or people who are homosexuals.

OK. But you also believe that they are unnatural and in defiance of the laws of a good god, do you not? That probably creates a bit of cognitive dissonance for you. You want to love homosexuals and feel no malice for them, but your god says they're sinners (or whatever the Baha'i equivalent of that language is), so you aren't free to disagree like unbelievers who feel just like you do.

you do not respect my beliefs or my religion. I consider that intolerance since it is an 'unwillingness to accept views, beliefs, or behavior that differ from one's own.'

Thats intolerance to you? I think you might be misunderstanding the definition you cited. Accept has two meanings, just like respect, one weaker and one stronger. Accept can mean to embrace, like accepting Jesus into one's heart, but it can also mean forbearance, which means to accept the legitimacy of others holding opinions with which one disagrees and not act against them.

Likewise with respect. One meaning is passive, like respecting someone's right to make foolish mistakes, and another indicates admiration, as in respecting somebody's accomplishments.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Uh, no. I don't think so.

I’m not sure what you mean?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Well no one should be compelled to worship the way another religion worships. But in interfaith all these faiths do come together and pray. They probably have a common verbal prayer which each say from their respective religion but say their diverse special forms of prayer in their own communities.

Can you give an example of a common prayer like you describe?

 

[LuisDantas]

Yes I understand what you mean. With Baha’is we come from all the conflicting viewpoints but are united and have reconciled our differences. For example I am from Catholic background while others are from other sects and also from Buddhist, Hindu, Jew, Muslim, Zoroastrian and they are from the different sects of their own religion yet we are reconciled. So there is a way they can all reconcile. We are living proof of it. We come back to the thing in common that we have found unites us and that is that the Promised One of our respective religions. So for Buddhists, Hindus, Christians, Jews and so on they have arrived at the conclusion from their own religious background that He has come and it all points for them each to the same Person - Baha’u’llah. Without Baha’u’llah I agree that the differences are difficult but not impossible.

Now, this requires so much qualification that it really courts at being an all-out falsehood.

1. Bahais do not come from "all the conflicting viewpoints". They mostly come from previous, non-Bahai religious backgrounds (and mostly Abrahamic at that). Not at all the same thing.

2. While Bahais do tend to regard their internal disagreements somewhat more gracefully than other Abrahamic groups do, there is still significant tension between Bahai sects. Bahais have been expelled for Covenant-Breaking.

Attempted schisms in the Baháʼí Faith - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

This is a particularly interesting matter by my perspective, because I think that it comes closer to the core of the conflict inherent to the Bahai proposal, which is closely related to previous and similar contradictions in Christianity and Islam. All three are forms of opposition between the explicit goal of being applicable for all people, all of humanity, while also being hierarchical, having a very emphasized and very significant central authority.

That is not widespread acceptance; that is being hopeful of eventually convincing everyone.

I hear some of you asking: "What is the problem with that?" There are several and they are very significant.

• Religion is to a very large extent a collective, social activity. Existing under the premise that one should be capable of either convincing others about what should be considered holy and religiously virtuous may sound proper and reasonable, but only if you come from a social perspective that has given up on actually respecting the diversity of beliefs and creeds.
• I assume that there is someone out there who will disagree, but to me the available and plentiful evidence very strongly implies that achieving any form of consensus on what should be considered "correct" in religion is not only impracticable but also very unhealthy. At the end of the day, people have varying religious perspectives and religious needs, and attempting to find a size that fits all is not helpful at all.
• Expecting and, worse, teaching that there ought to be a true answer for religious needs that all people ought to converge towards creates a lot of second-guessing and anxiety for no true benefit. Worse still, it heavily encourages hypocrisy and other harmful attitudes.

3. The expectation for "reconciliation" may be sincere, but it is IMO misguided. It may be counterintuitive for many, but religious disagreement isn't always associated with any form of conflict, and it is probably more harmful to attempt to avoid it than to accept it.

4. As others pointed out, the very idea of a Promised One is an ill fit for many a religion, even when it is not actively harmful (which is often the case).

I am all for attempting to ease the tensions between various Abrahamic sects. But this is just not the way.

 

[LuisDantas]

It’s all true and can be found in their respective scriptures.

You really ought to refrain from talking so carelessly about creeds that you do not even consider proper.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Or maybe a friendly picnic. Just casual so we can get to know one another. We can help each others social or humanitarian projects. I know Baha’is who work at lifeline and the Salvation Army and assist them as volunteers as well as St Vincent de Paul. However they seem troubled why we dont become Christians but we feel perfectly at home because we believe in Jesus and the Bible.

Building a bridge starts with a string thrown over with a rock or flown over with a kite, then the string pulls across a cord, then that cord pulls across a few ropes, then you measure, and then you plan an actual bridge that can support the traffic; and then you produce materials. Much time passes. Building the bridge comes last at the end of much effort, much measuring. Many beautiful and strong bridges have fallen because of tiny weaknesses. Learn from previous engineering disasters, so that you don't repeat one.

 

[Mark Charles Compton]

Building a bridge starts with a string thrown over with a rock or flown over with a kite, then the string pulls across a cord, then that cord pulls across a few ropes, then you measure, and then you plan an actual bridge that can support the traffic; and then you produce materials. Much time passes. Building the bridge comes last at the end of much effort, much measuring. Many beautiful and strong bridges have fallen because of tiny weaknesses. Learn from previous engineering disasters, so that you don't repeat one.

Gimme the rope and a few minutes... I can swim.