What if You Found Out That a Friend Was Racist or Otherwise Hatefully Prejudiced?

[Augustus]

Suppose you found out that one of your friends was racist, homophobic, anti-trans, or hateful toward any given religious group. How would you respond to that, and how would you handle the friendship?

If someone genuinely was hateful then that might be a problem, but a bit prejudiced or mildly bigoted I don’t really care.

Most folk with diverse friendship groups understand that prejudice and mild bigotry are pretty common across the board.

 

[Regiomontanus]

Yes.

Wow, talk about intolerance!

 

[Debater Slayer]

I have a cousin who started sending me racist and, in particular, Islamaphobic “jokes” on WhatsApp. I asked her to stop, she did. She’s a kind person in many ways, helpful to family, friends and neighbours; including her black friends and neighbours.

And she’s still my cousin, I love her. Just don’t be sending me racist memes about London’s Moslem mayor etc.

The following is a scenario (based on the OP) that I intend to be about a hypothetical involving a friend rather than your cousin: if you knew a friend was hateful but they made sure, due to your request, not to express that hatred in your presence whether through memes or otherwise, how would you react? Would you see the hatred as an issue worth discussing with said friend?

 

[Debater Slayer]

If someone genuinely was hateful then that might be a problem, but a bit prejudiced or mildly bigoted I don’t really care.

Most folk with diverse friendship groups understand that prejudice and mild bigotry are pretty common across the board.

In your view, what constitutes being a bit prejudiced or mildly bigoted, and what constitutes being genuinely hateful? Where would you draw the line at which prejudice or bigotry would become genuine hatred?

 

[Rival]

Sometimes I'm that prejudiced and bigoted friend.

Sometimes you will be, in ways you don't recognise someone will see as prejudiced and bigoted.

If someone says some unsavoury stuff in private, it'll stay private. Everyone has that stuff, as far as I know.

 

[Audie]

Stopp invalidating bigotry by mincing long-standing terms and words.

I've made no personal / derogatory and or false
statements about you.

That you've moved to such prejudicial statements
about me is almost like ironic for this thread.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

Which views do you consider to cross a line enough to warrant trying to, as you put it, "educate/reform the friend back toward reality"?

Usually when it goes well and far beyond just parroting vague talking points or dogwhistles. If someone knows what they're saying (e.g. "Transgender people need to be eradicated," and graphic discussion of just how that would be done.) Usually if something is said with all the fresh vigor of a college freshman just now taking Psychology 101, there's a shot at redemption. But if they're pounding a pulpit like a zealous Baptist preacher, it's usually too late and not worth it.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

I've made no personal / derogatory and or false statements about you.

That you've moved to such prejudicial statements about me is almost like ironic for this thread.

I am describing exactly what you're doing by invalidating terms like homophobia and transphobia. That's not a statement on you whatsoever.

 

[Revoltingest]

Suppose you found out that one of your friends was racist, homophobic, anti-trans, or hateful toward any given religious group.

That describes many friends.

How would you respond to that, and how would you handle the friendship?

Encourage improvement.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Well, the thread is in its third page, so it is long enough that I will answer too.

For me, this question is too broad for a general answer to accurately address it. It almost entirely depends on the individual, my relationship with them, and exactly how the prejudice manifests.

I believe that everyone, without exception, has some degree of prejudice in one way or another, and the best we can do is try to learn, understand ourselves and others, and keep any prejudice in check. Thinking of ourselves as perfectly free of prejudice is, in my opinion, a guaranteed way to become overconfident, judgmental, and ironically prejudiced.

This means that my approach to a racist, homophobe, transphobe, etc., will depend on what I think they know about the subject, what their intentions are, how open they are to associating with me rather than staying in an echo chamber, and what their attitude is toward others in general—among many other factors. When someone who, for one reason or another, finds some of my beliefs "immoral," "harmful," etc., associates with me while knowing about said beliefs and remains open to discussion, that means there is a bridge between us and a door that I generally prefer not to close unless I see strong reasons to do so, such as, say, seeing someone actively harm other people (e.g., by cheating or being dishonest) based on their prejudice toward them and refuse to consider or discuss the effects of their actions.

I don't think it's possible to have a "morally pure" social circle, nor is such a level of homogeneity something I find desirable or healthy. I live in a society where the vast majority of people believe that LGBT people should be legally penalized, that "apostates" should be punished, that gender equality is harmful, etc. The facile way for me to look at this would be to say, "Every single one of those people is a bad and immoral person." The nuanced view is to consider the role of culture, upbringing, peers, information, social circles, and individual factors (e.g., personality and personal experiences) in shaping people's views and values—even when those views and values directly or indirectly cause harm to a subset of people.

In my opinion, the proliferation of social media has introduced and amplified a new level of one-dimensional assessment of certain issues pertaining to religion and politics, where people are judged as either morally pure or irredeemably hateful.

 

[Augustus]

In your view, what constitutes being a bit prejudiced or mildly bigoted, and what constitutes being genuinely hateful? Where would you draw the line at which prejudice or bigotry would become genuine hatred?

For the former, negative stereotypes towards groups that leads them to judge that group unfavourably on average.

For the latter, actual malice that aimed to harm specific individuals purely for their membership of a group.

 

[Mock Turtle]

Suppose you found out that one of your friends was racist, homophobic, anti-trans, or hateful toward any given religious group. How would you respond to that, and how would you handle the friendship?

My own answer depends on many variables and is not uniform for everyone or all situations, so I'm asking out of sheer curiosity about others' thoughts.

I suspect I didn't make that many close friends at school - at least until the last few years - because I probably was far too choosy, although I usually had at least one good friend. Later in life I usually had some close friends and all seemed to share the same values as myself such that we rarely quarreled over the things cited. Life just seemed more pleasant to have agreeable friends than ones that might not be so. Hence I would not usually find any of my friends displaying any of these things in the first place.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

Wow, talk about intolerance!

Interesting edit. To tolerate intolerance is a paradox; educate yourself on the things you don't understand if being considered ignorant and fearful rubs you the wrong way.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Sometimes I'm that prejudiced and bigoted friend.

In those situations, do you prefer that your friend let you know that they perceive a specific belief you have to be so, or do you prefer that they not talk about it?

Sometimes you will be, in ways you don't recognise someone will see as prejudiced and bigoted.

In those situations, do you prefer to let your friend know that you perceive a specific belief they have to be so, or do you prefer not to talk about it?

Personally, I appreciate and have immensely learned from being made aware of certain prejudiced beliefs, attitudes, etc., that I used to hold. Whether I let someone know when I perceive them to be displaying a prejudiced belief or attitude depends on my relationship with them and whether I think it may achieve anything productive (e.g., lead to consideration of what I have said and be properly understood as friendly and in good faith rather than intended to shame or judge).

Whether I'm receiving or offering such observations, though, I think delivery is extremely important, and unkindness, shaming (e.g., calling someone out in front of others without having any private discussions with them), and judgmentalism are more likely to burn bridges and cause unnecessary grudges than they are to help anyone.

 

[Rival]

In those situations, do you prefer that your friend let you know that they perceive a specific belief you have to be so, or do you prefer that they not talk about it?



In those situations, do you prefer to let your friend know that you perceive a specific belief they have to be so, or do you prefer not to talk about it?

For me, I appreciate and have immensely learned from being made aware of certain prejudiced beliefs, attitudes, etc., that I used to hold. Whether I let someone know when I perceive them to be displaying a prejudiced belief or attitude depends on my relationship with them and whether I think it may achieve anything productive (e.g., lead to consideration of what I have said and be properly understood as friendly and in good faith rather than intended to shame or judge).

Whether I'm receiving or offering such observations, though, I think delivery is extremely important, and unkindness, shaming (e.g., calling someone out in front of others without having any private discussions with them), and judgmentalism are more likely to burn bridges and cause unnecessary grudges than they are to help anyone.

It would depend on the nature of the belief.

If it's based on a holy book or other religious sentiment I tend to let it go, no matter what it is. I may say I disagree but those conversations don't tend to change minds unless they're coming from someone in the same religious tradition or from a similar background who has a strong grasp of the culture involved and the language, family dynamics, legal system etc. It's no good me telling Muslims 'I think polygyny is abhorrent' if they can just say 'The Quran allows it'. I could make arguments based on women voting to ban it, the Quran arguing you'll still have a favourite, Aisha saying she'd rather be Mohammad's only wife etc. but it's unlikely these things will wash. There's no point. Let people to these kinds of beliefs imo and if they want to change their own culture they can do so.

If someone says he supports things that our culture (here in the UK) has generally rejected, made illegal or otherwise, I might not want to hang around with such a person based on concerns he may be an ASPD or other such, as these types can often be, or for my own safety, or because I don't feel anything productive will come of the friendship if I don't think dialogue can be had.

If dialogue can be had, I'll attempt more to understand where the belief comes from and go from there. I don't like trying to change people's minds because it feels a bit arrogant.

 

[Kenny]

What if you could ascertain that they were indeed homophobic, anti-trans, or hateful toward a given religious group—for example, if they overtly expressed such hatred in no uncertain terms or openly advocated for harmful actions against any of those groups, such as by being opposed to their basic rights?

If hatred is there, I would pray for them, challenge them and preach the love that God has for them. Jesus seemed to reach out to all types of hate groups.

In some cases, more forceful efforts must be implemented like when Jesus made a whip.

Again, first double checking my own heart less I become hateful as they espouse hatred.

And then try to act like Jesus as Jesus said,,

Matthew 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

As you mentioned before, each case needs to be handled differently and, in my case, asking the Holy Spirit for guidance. Perhaps, if I were in a different country, be like Corrie Ten Boom. (At least I hope so)

 

[Debater Slayer]

It would depend on the nature of the belief.

If it's based on a holy book or other religious sentiment I tend to let it go, no matter what it is. I may say I disagree but those conversations don't tend to change minds unless they're coming from someone in the same religious tradition or from a similar background who has a strong grasp of the culture involved and the language, family dynamics, legal system etc. It's no good me telling Muslims 'I think polygyny is abhorrent' if they can just say 'The Quran allows it'. I could make arguments based on women voting to ban it, the Quran arguing you'll still have a favourite, Aisha saying she'd rather be Mohammad's only wife etc. but it's unlikely these things will wash. There's no point. Let people to these kinds of beliefs imo and if they want to change their own culture they can do so.

If someone says he supports things that our culture (here in the UK) has generally rejected, made illegal or otherwise, I might not want to hang around with such a person based on concerns he may be an ASPD or other such, as these types can often be, or for my own safety, or because I don't feel anything productive will come of the friendship if I don't think dialogue can be had.

If dialogue can be had, I'll attempt more to understand where the belief comes from and go from there. I don't like trying to change people's minds because it feels a bit arrogant.

I agree with starting by trying to understand where the belief comes from, and I also feel uncomfortable with the idea of trying to change people's minds unless I think that it is absolutely necessary or that a major red line has been crossed (e.g., the belief actively inspires the person in question to harm others).

I think almost everyone has such red lines of their own, hence my curiosity about where different people draw them. So, for example, what kind of belief, if any, would you find necessary or important to try to change? Would support for things that were culturally or legally unacceptable in the UK be such a red line for you?

 

[Rival]

I agree with starting by trying to understand where the belief comes from, and I also feel uncomfortable with the idea of trying to change people's minds unless I think that it is absolutely necessary or that a major red line has been crossed (e.g., the belief actively inspires the person in question to harm others).

I think almost everyone has such red lines of their own, hence my curiosity about where different people draw them. So, for example, what kind of belief, if any, would you find necessary or important to try to change? Would support for things that were culturally or legally unacceptable in the UK be such a red line for you?

Not really.

I'm actually not that invested in much, don't attach to people easily, and tend to have a moral compass that doesn't point north. I just let people be. I'm fairly lethargic in that sense.

It freaks people out.

I can be gung-ho on certain things where I feel biological and psychological human realities are being crossed, but then I realised apparently humans think we can change ourselves, which is a belief I don't subscribe to. So I have some eugenic-y in terms of health and at what age one has babies etc. views people don't like, for example, and showing them scientific data doesn't help because it seems human morals are inherently at odds with human evolution and psychology. I'm kind of social Darwinist in just letting certain people weed themselves out rather than my trying to stop them.

Now I'm gonna gate h a t e.

 

[an anarchist]

Suppose you found out that one of your friends was racist, homophobic, anti-trans, or hateful toward any given religious group. How would you respond to that, and how would you handle the friendship?

My own answer depends on many variables and is not uniform for everyone or all situations, so I'm asking out of sheer curiosity about others' thoughts.

I've been friends with the worst of people... I suppose I am a worst kind of people too, so that's why I find myself surrounded by sickos who say they relate to me.

If an acquaintance of mine is good or moral e.g. not racist, then that's dandy. But I no longer have such expectations out of people.

 

[an anarchist]

Suppose you found out that one of your friends was racist, homophobic, anti-trans, or hateful toward any given religious group. How would you respond to that, and how would you handle the friendship?

My own answer depends on many variables and is not uniform for everyone or all situations, so I'm asking out of sheer curiosity about others' thoughts.

Ima answer again to elaborate more.

This is all my opinion of course and I mean this with the most possible respect, this is just my perspective.

I am friends with statists... Like you lot. though consistently, and with determination, you are all helping bring about the literal and complete enslavement of humanity. War and suffering is everywhere, and it is the statists fault for being so dense, misled, and blind. I use to have hate for everyone because they are all screwing up my world, but now I pity everyone instead for their idiocy.

If I can be friends with a statist, I can be friends with a racist, or a wife beater, or whatever. Being a statist is just as bad as least.

I have learnt to be cold, though I am not inclined to be... I am really quite empathetic. Perhaps my empathy is why I can see the good in the worst of people and ultimately "be their friend".

I have a disdain for humans, so I must be able to look past one's flaws if I want associates.