What interesting views Obama's pastor has...

[tomspug]

Obama and the Minister - WSJ.com

Not to say that Obama holds the same ridiculous views as this man, but I don't understand why this is Obama's church of choice.

One of the things I think is ironic is that the pastor is trying to convince his (probably mostly) black congregation that a black man will never be president and that a black woman will never be more than an object. Sure, he blames America, but this seems like a counter-intuitive message. Is he trying to convince blacks that they are insignificant?

 

[Dunemeister]

The only thing I find ridiculous is the claim that the US started the AIDS virus. However, I don't know much about how the AIDS virus came on the scene... The other stuff about the biggest killer in the world, shameless and unthinking supporter of Zionism, inherent racism: check, check, and check.

In fact, I can see where Obama gets his passion for dealing with evil systems rather than evil persons. He doesn't care about one person being a racist. He cares about racism being expressed in systems, and he (rightly) assumes that the real evil must be attacked at that level.

 

[tomspug]

If we're "Zionist" than why has every American president supported Israel? Maybe it's because it's the right side to fight on...

 

[Nanda]

The only thing I find ridiculous is the claim that the US started the AIDS virus. However, I don't know much about how the AIDS virus came on the scene...

No one is 100% certain, but a common theory is that humans first contracted the virus in Africa, from eating the meat of a monkey infected with SIV (Simian Immunodeficiency Virus), which acts in monkeys the way HIV acts in humans.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

If we're "Zionist" than why has every American president supported Israel? Maybe it's because it's the right side to fight on...

It's about integrity and self-interests IMHO. America helped create Israel, so it's our responsibility to see it through. Also, Israel is a key allay in a region where America wants oil. It's also a the only democracy in the region, and will serve as a better example of what the Arab countries could be if they ended Islamic law and became a democracy.

America needs Israel more than Israel needs America - particularly if we went to war with Iran (Allah forbid).

 

[Father Heathen]

If we're "Zionist" than why has every American president supported Israel? Maybe it's because it's the right side to fight on...

I think it has a lot to do with evangelical lobbying and influence. The majority of the U.S. are christians who've always have been a lot closer to Jews than they have to Muslims and Israel is seen as the holy land. Not really much to do with "right" sides.

 

[tomspug]

Yeah, because it has nothing to do with the fact that all it's surrounding neighbors would like to see the nation of Israel removed... literally. And have tried to do so since Israel came into existence. Yeah, because none of our foreign relations have anything to do with defending people.

 

[Starfish]

Obama and the Minister - WSJ.com

Not to say that Obama holds the same ridiculous views as this man, but I don't understand why this is Obama's church of choice.

Me neither.

[/quote]One of the things I think is ironic is that the pastor is trying to convince his (probably mostly) black congregation that a black man will never be president and that a black woman will never be more than an object. Sure, he blames America, but this seems like a counter-intuitive message. Is he trying to convince blacks that they are insignificant?[/quote]

Do you think that some of these "ministers", ie. Jesse Jackson, need to keep racism alive, to justify themselves? I mean, would they have any purpose, (or income) if there was no racism?

 

[nutshell]

Question: Is this Obama's current pastor or previous pastor?

 

[Dunemeister]

Yeah, because it has nothing to do with the fact that all it's surrounding neighbors would like to see the nation of Israel removed... literally. And have tried to do so since Israel came into existence. Yeah, because none of our foreign relations have anything to do with defending people.

It's true that the Arab nations favor the destruction of the Zionist state. But that's not to say that they object to Jews living in Palestine. Rather, Arabs object to the State of Israel having been foisted upon them without their participation or consent (which likely they wouldn't have given at the time) -- and notice the highly antidemocratic means by which Israel was foisted upon the Arabs. They also object to the evils perpetrated in the name of Zionism (exile of Palestinians, refusal to permit them to return, building settlements on disputed territories, harboring nuclear weapons...the list is endless). All of these evils have been supported, aided, abetted, and encouraged by the United States government since the 1950s when Israel managed to convince America (wrongly) that Israel could be a useful toehold in the middle east.

But for all the headaches the alliance with Israel makes for the United States, the alliance survives for two reasons. First, there is a humongous Israel lobby in the US. Second, Israel is a massive and reliable purchaser of American weapons. So if Haliburton and friends are happy, the Oval Office is happy. And the actual interests of Jews, Arabs, and Americans be damned.

 

[gnomon]

It's true that the Arab nations favor the destruction of the Zionist state. But that's not to say that they object to Jews living in Palestine. Rather, Arabs object to the State of Israel having been foisted upon them without their participation or consent (which likely they wouldn't have given at the time) -- and notice the highly antidemocratic means by which Israel was foisted upon the Arabs. They also object to the evils perpetrated in the name of Zionism (exile of Palestinians, refusal to permit them to return, building settlements on disputed territories, harboring nuclear weapons...the list is endless). All of these evils have been supported, aided, abetted, and encouraged by the United States government since the 1950s when Israel managed to convince America (wrongly) that Israel could be a useful toehold in the middle east.

But for all the headaches the alliance with Israel makes for the United States, the alliance survives for two reasons. First, there is a humongous Israel lobby in the US. Second, Israel is a massive and reliable purchaser of American weapons. So if Haliburton and friends are happy, the Oval Office is happy. And the actual interests of Jews, Arabs, and Americans be damned.

This would make since if U.S. was replaced with U.S.S.R. and its support of Israel by supplying arms to the nation through Checkoslovakia. Early support from the U.S. did not come from the U.S. government.

So, actual history aside, and back to the OP....the preacher's a tool.

 

[Troublemane]

They also object to the evils perpetrated in the name of Zionism (exile of Palestinians, refusal to permit them to return, building settlements on disputed territories, harboring nuclear weapons...the list is endless). All of these evils have been supported, aided, abetted, and encouraged by the United States government since the 1950s when Israel managed to convince America (wrongly) that Israel could be a useful toehold in the middle east.

Evils? Exile of the Palestinians? Dude, it was Jordan who kicked out the so-called palestinians to begin with, because they were trying to overthrow the government there. The Israelis have been dealing with them far more humanely than their arab brethren have.

 

[Dunemeister]

This would make since if U.S. was replaced with U.S.S.R. and its support of Israel by supplying arms to the nation through Checkoslovakia. Early support from the U.S. did not come from the U.S. government.

So, actual history aside, and back to the OP....the preacher's a tool.

Quibble with when exactly the US became the de facto arms depot for Israel if you like, the general account I gave is true to history. What makes the preacher a tool (to use your expression) for many is what he says about the United States' role in tens of millions of deaths, displacements, and other evils (some of which involve the creation and blind support of Zionism). It is unfortunate, but the US role in such things is in fact easily (and already) documented.

 

[gnomon]

Quibble with when exactly the US became the de facto arms depot for Israel if you like, the general account I gave is true to history. What makes the preacher a tool (to use your expression) for many is what he says about the United States' role in tens of millions of deaths, displacements, and other evils (some of which involve the creation and blind support of Zionism). It is unfortunate, but the US role in such things is in fact easily (and already) documented.

This is turning out to be a larger shed than I thought.

 

[robtex]

Obama and the Minister - WSJ.com

Not to say that Obama holds the same ridiculous views as this man, but I don't understand why this is Obama's church of choice.

?

I think every religious leader has a source or inspiration that precedes him and that the answer to the pastor's view can be backtracked if we do our homework--collectively speaking. I look at that speech and I see Al Sharpton, Malcom X, Jessie Jackson but not so much Martin Luther. I figure that from the Pastor's possible racist stance, that his inspiration is more likely a black pastor(s). I guess we could go to his website try to pick out "power words" and phrases google them and see if anyone said them before he did or if he just names his inspirations. Religion and culture have an intimate relationship and my guess is many of his thoughts came from inspirations before him.

 

[Starfish]

Question: Is this Obama's current pastor or previous pastor?

I just read that he has been Obama's pastor for the past twenty years, which is approximately how long Obama has been Christian. And somehow he has been involved with Obama's campaign, until just a few days ago. Also, Wright (the pastor) is retiring.
Obama claims he never heard any of the inflammatory remarks made at his church. That makes me wonder about Obama and his truthfulness.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Also, Israel is a key allay in a region where America wants oil.

How does the existence of Isreal help us one bit in acquiring oil? They don't have any and our support for them does not endear our country to the Arabs that have the oil.

Isreal and oil are two seperate interests and I have never heard or read anything that tied the two together before.

 

[kai]

well this guy is a good example of keeping faith out of politics so America started the aids virus (alarm bells ringing crank alert , crank alert) if you have to ask why America supports Israel then you you know very little of middle eastern politics, for one Israel is a sovereign democratically elected nation surrounded by dictatorships , you wouldn't be America if you didn't support them. and of course black activists need the idea of black subjugation to survive, the same as the Arab states need a common enemy to keep their people from the notion or idea of freedom and democracy,

 

[Reverend Rick]

well this guy is a good example of keeping faith out of politics so America started the aids virus (alarm bells ringing crank alert , crank alert) if you have to ask why America supports Israel then you you know very little of middle eastern politics, for one Israel is a sovereign democratically elected nation surrounded by dictatorships , you wouldn't be America if you didn't support them. and of course black activists need the idea of black subjugation to survive, the same as the Arab states need a common enemy to keep their people from the notion or idea of freedom and democracy,

Who are you addressing?

 

[Mr. Hair]

It's also a the only democracy in the region, and will serve as a better example of what the Arab countries could be if they ended Islamic law and became a democracy.

if you have to ask why America supports Israel then you you know very little of middle eastern politics, for one Israel is a sovereign democratically elected nation surrounded by dictatorships , you wouldn't be America if you didn't support them. and of course black activists need the idea of black subjugation to survive, the same as the Arab states need a common enemy to keep their people from the notion or idea of freedom and democracy,

Nonsense. Lebanon, Turkey, Yemen and Iraq are all examples of democratic states within the Middle-East, and there are many more (such as Iran and Bahrain) which incorporate democratic tendencies into their governing structure.

Representative democracy is certainly less prevalent then in, say, Latin America, but it is also certainly not the case that every country in the region bar Israel is uniformly autocratic. To pretend otherwise is to indulge in simplified inaccuracies.