What is a "Christian"!?

[Dogknox]

tumbleweed41 hello..
You asked..

I said the Bible, not the Tanakh.
So again, would you consider one who has faith in God, as described in the Bible, a Christian?

NO.. As>> as described in the Bible!
The Bible tells us.. "the Jews have faith in God!"!
The Bible tells us.. "Jews reject Jesus!"
tumbleweed41 CHRISTIANS believe Jesus is God!

52 Then the Jews began to argue sharply among themselves, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?”

DO YOU SEE IT??? Jews DO NOT believe Jesus is GOD! “How can this man.....
Jews consider Jesus only a MAN!
CHRISTIANS believ e Jesus is God!
CHRISTIANS believe God can do all things!!!


You asked..

So, one who has bibliolotry, as in, faith in the words of the Bible over God himself, would not be a Christian?

CHRISTIANS believe the bible!!
The Bible tells CHRISTIANS to worship only God!

If there are people who worship the bible then they are NOT worshiping God! They are worshiping a book!

All who have FAITH IN the words of God >CAN'T< be putting the bible over God!!
The BIBLE tells all who believe the scriptures to worship ONLY God!
tumbleweed41 All who believe the scriptures are Christian!

All who worship the bible (bibliolotry) can't be worshiping God ALONE, can't be CHRISTIAN!!
tumbleweed41 Christians.. "Christ Followers" believe the scriptures!

Dogknox

 

[Dogknox]

But what does Jesus say a person has to do to "follow him"?
BTW: do you consider yourself a Christian?

9-10ths_Penguin are you Christian??!

I believe the scriptures.. So I am a Christ follower!
You ask..

what does Jesus say a person has to do to "follow him"?

Jesus says.. "A person MUST LOVE, to have eternal life"!
Christians believe the words of Jesus... Always have!

Luke 10:25
On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. &#8220;Teacher,&#8221; he asked, &#8220;what must I do to inherit eternal life?&#8221;
26 &#8220;What is written in the Law?&#8221; he replied. &#8220;How do you read it?&#8221;
27 He answered, &#8220;&#8216;Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind&#8217;; and, &#8216;Love your neighbor as yourself.&#8217;&#8221;
28 &#8220;You have answered correctly,&#8221; Jesus replied. &#8220;Do this and you will live.&#8221;

9-10ths_Penguin QUESTION: Can God lie?!!!!
Is Jesus God, did the man answer correctly!

What does Jesus say a person has to do to "follow him"?

Do you understand the meaning of the word "MUST"!? As in>>A person MUST LOVE!!!
John 13:34
&#8220;A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another.

1 John 5:3
In fact, this is love for God: to keep his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,

1 John 3:24
The one who keeps God&#8217;s commands lives in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.

9-10ths_Penguin QUESTION "What does God COMMAND!!"
Does a person who keeps God's COMMANDS live in God!!!?

9-10ths_Penguin I made the questions in lime green so you would see them!

Can you be a Christ follower and reject the words of Christ??!! 28 &#8220;You have answered correctly,&#8221; Jesus replied.
9-10ths_Penguin what does Jesus say a person has to do to "follow him"?

 

[tumbleweed41]

NO.. As>> as described in the Bible!
The Bible tells us.. "the Jews have faith in God!"!
The Bible tells us.. "Jews reject Jesus!"
tumbleweed41 CHRISTIANS believe Jesus is God!

52 Then the Jews began to argue sharply among themselves, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?”

DO YOU SEE IT??? Jews DO NOT believe Jesus is GOD! “How can this man.....
Jews consider Jesus only a MAN!
CHRISTIANS believ e Jesus is God!
CHRISTIANS believe God can do all things!!!

I have to wonder why you keep bringing up Jews when I specifically asked about those who have faith in God as described by the Bible, not the Tanakh.

One more time.
Would you consider one who has faith in God, as described in the Bible, a Christian?

CHRISTIANS believe the bible!!
The Bible tells CHRISTIANS to worship only God!

If there are people who worship the bible then they are NOT worshiping God! They are worshiping a book!

All who have FAITH IN the words of God >CAN'T< be putting the bible over God!!
The BIBLE tells all who believe the scriptures to worship ONLY God!
tumbleweed41 All who believe the scriptures are Christian!

All who worship the bible (bibliolotry) can't be worshiping God ALONE, can't be CHRISTIAN!!
tumbleweed41 Christians.. "Christ Followers" believe the scriptures!

Dogknox

Where in the Bible does it mention that the New Testament, as canonized by Pope Innocent and/or descended from the Gutenberg printings, are actually Scripture that must be believed and followed as a literal dogma?

 

[Sir Doom]

bibliolotry

I like this one.

 

[Dogknox]

tumbleweed hello

I have to wonder why you keep bringing up Jews when I specifically asked about those who have faith in God as described by the Bible, not the Tanakh.

One more time.
Would you consider one who has faith in God, as described in the Bible, a Christian?

Do you see it??? as described in the Bible
As described in the Bible
IN THE BIBLE are people who have faith "IN GOD" but not in Jesus!
Christians are "Christ Followers!"
Jews have Faith IN God BUT Not >NOT< in Jesus!
As described in the Bible Jews have Faith IN God!!!!!!!!!!!!! Got it!!??
Jews have Faith IN God>>But are NOT CHristian!!!!
Would you consider one who has faith in God, as described in the Bible, a Christian? NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Would you consider one who has faith in >>JESUS<<, as described in the Bible, a Christian? YES!!!!!!!!!!!!:yes:

Where in the Bible does it mention that the New Testament, as canonized by Pope Innocent and/or descended from the Gutenberg printings, are actually Scripture that must be believed and followed as a literal dogma?

.........................................
DICTIONARY DOT COM
dog·ma&#8194; &#8194;[dawg-muh, dog-] Show IPA
noun, plural dog·mas or ( Rare ) dog·ma·ta &#8194;[dawg-muh-tuh] Show IPA.
1.an official system of principles or tenets concerning faith, morals, behavior, etc., as of a church. Synonyms: doctrine, teachings, set of beliefs, philosophy.
2.a specific tenet or doctrine authoritatively laid down, as by a church: the dogma of the Assumption; the recently defined dogma of papal infallibility. Synonyms: tenet, canon, law.
....................................
Matthew18:17
If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.
.................................
DICTIONARY DOT COM
pagan
1.one of a people or community observing a polytheistic religion, as the ancient Romans and Greeks. Synonyms: polytheist.
2.a person who is not a Christian, Jew, or Muslim. Synonyms: heathen, gentile; idolator; nonbeliever.
3.an irreligious or hedonistic person.
4.a person deemed savage or uncivilized and morally deficient.
adjective
5.pertaining to the worship or worshipers of any religion that is neither Christian, Jewish, nor Muslim. Synonyms: heathen, heathenish, idolatrous, polytheistic. Antonyms: Christian, Jewish, Muslim, monotheistic.
6.of, pertaining to, or characteristic of pagans.
7.irreligious or hedonistic. Synonyms: unbelieving, godless, atheistic, agnostic; impious, profane, sacrilegious, unholy, ungodly. Antonyms: religious, pious, devout.

tumbleweed Christians listen to the Church!
Pagans do NOT listen to the Church, they reject the scriptures!!!!!

1 Timothy 3:15
if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.

tumbleweed QUESTION..Where in the bible do you find.. "Scriptures are all you need"? Simple question!!
Christians believe the scriptures!

Reject the scriptures and then reject Jesus!

 

[tumbleweed41]

Well, that was a whole bucket full of avoiding the questions now wasn't it?

 

[Dogknox]

Well, that was a whole bucket full of avoiding the questions now wasn't it?

What...
Jesus is GOD!!!
Some people.. Jew for a good example, do not believe Jesus is God!
Rephrase your question!!
Jews are NOT Christian!!
You never answered my question

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

9-10ths_Penguin are you Christian??!

No, I'm not.

I believe the scriptures.. So I am a Christ follower!

... except for this part of the scriptures, right?

Romans 10:6-7:

But the righteousness [d]based on faith speaks as follows: “ Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’ (that is, to bring Christ down), 7 or ‘Who will descend into the abyss?’ (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead).”

I mean, you seem very fixated on the question of who will be saved and who won't be. Doesn't this go against the passage I quoted above?

You ask..
Jesus says.. "A person MUST LOVE, to have eternal life"!
Christians believe the words of Jesus... Always have!

You're still not answering my question. I get that you say that Christians have to "believe the words of Jesus", but right now, I don't care what you say; right now, I care what Jesus says. Where does Jesus - not you, but Jesus - say that being a Christian means accepting all the scriptures? Please point me to the chapter and verse where he says this.

 

[Katzpur]

Katzpur Good to meet you I hope all is well..
Your post has lots to ponder!!

>>Again.. CHRISTIANS believe the scriptures!!!!!!

Right on!

Point me to scriptures that say: Lucifer is spirit son of God!!

Point me to scriptures that say that all truth is found within the pages of the Bible.

Point me to scriptures that say.. "Jesus left his church" and it was J Smith's job to reestablish Jesus' church!

Point me to scriptures that say the Catholic Church is the Church Jesus established. Watch for a follow-up post on this topic.

Joseph Smith, taught the doctrine of a "plurality of gods"&#8212;polytheism&#8212;as the bedrock belief of his church.
SCRIPTURES tell you "There is just one (1) God!"

Deuteronomy 4:35
You were shown these things so that you might know that the LORD is God; besides him there is no other.

This, too, deserves an entirely separate post.

You say Acts 17:29 means you are God' child!

I did? In which post did I do that?

I point out; Christians are God' children!!

So is everybody else. He created all of us. We are all His spirit offspring. There is not one person who has ever lived who was not created by the same God. He is the Father of the spirits of each and every one of us.

Christian believe the scriptures!
In a circle we go!!
Christian believe the scriptures!!

Of course they do. So do Jews and Muslims. They just believe different scriptures than you do.

>YOUR WORDS>>>
I reply: Mormons, >>DID<< invent this doctrine. NO CHRISTIANS believe "Satan is Jesus' brother!"

Uh... wrong. 14.5 millions Christians do.

 

[Katzpur]

Point me to scriptures that say.. "Jesus left his church" and it was J Smith's job to reestablish Jesus' church!
Matthew 28:20
and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.&#8221;

Did you see it>>>I am with you always, to the very end of the age.&#8221;

Members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints often speak of a "Great Apostasy." Even in Old Testament times, God's prophets warned that the time would come when the word of the Lord would not be found anywhere in the world.

In Amos 8:11-12, we are told, "Behold, the days come, saith the Lord God, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the Lord; And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the Lord, and shall not find it."

Contrary to most other Christian denominations, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints contends that this prophesy did, in fact, come to pass, and that shortly after the deaths of Christ's Apostles, the Church He personally established ceased to exist in its original form -- in other words that there was, for many, many years, a famine in the world "a famine of hearing the words of the Lord" and that, regardless of where one might wander in search of God's word, it could not be found.

Throughout the New Testament, the Apostles also warned that this was to happen. Paul seemed particularly concerned about the infant Church and frequently voiced his concerns to the early Christians. Among his statements to Christ's followers, are these:

Acts 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.

2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition&#8230;

Galatians 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel&#8230;

2 Timothy 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears&#8230;

Paul made it absolutely clear that (1)the flock would not only be attacked, it would not be spared, (2) Christ would not return to the earth until this universal "falling away" or "apostasy" had taken place, (3) these things were already beginning to take place as he spoke, and (4) the doctrines taught by the Savior would, in time, cease to endure.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints holds that during the first few centuries after the Savior and His Apostles died, Christianity began to evolve into something quite different than it had originally been. While the Apostles, who assumed leadership over the Church after Christ's death, undoubtedly did everything within their power to preserve and strengthen the Church, there were, unfortunately, other forces at work. Within a matter of just a few years following their deaths, the simplicity and purity of Christ&#8217;s teachings had begun to undergo some rather significant changes. Greek philosophical thought corrupted such basic doctrines as the true nature of God and man&#8217;s relationship to Him, as learned but uninspired men sought to make this new religion more acceptable to the masses, and especially to the non-Jewish convert. Finally, and probably most important of all, God withdrew His priesthood from the earth. What did this mean? It meant that there was no one left who held the authority to act in His name. With God no longer directing the affairs of His Church, man was on his own. Through debate and discussion, by vote and by compromise, what we now know as &#8220;mainstream&#8221; Christianity emerged.

Religious scholars describe this as "The Helenization of Christianity." We call it simply, "The Great Apostasy."

Does this mean that Christianity ceased to exist entirely? No. There have been devout Christians ever since the time of Christ. But the "fullness" of His gospel was taken from the earth, just as the ancient prophets said it would be.

 

[Katzpur]

Funny - you didn't strike me as a Catholic.

He's not very typical, is he? Most Catholics I've interacted with seem to be quite nice people. Dogknox posts on another forum I do; he's made lots of friends there, too.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

He's not very typical, is he? Most Catholics I've interacted with seem to be quite nice people. Dogknox posts on another forum I do; he's made lots of friends there, too.

Is he actually Catholic? I was making a bit of a joke on the assumption that he wasn't... considering how Sola Scriptura his arguments are.

 

[Katzpur]

Joseph Smith, taught the doctrine of a "plurality of gods"&#8212;polytheism&#8212;as the bedrock belief of his church.

SCRIPTURES tell you "There is just one (1) God!"

Deuteronomy 4:35
You were shown these things so that you might know that the LORD is God; besides him there is no other.

For crying out loud, where on God's green earth did you get the idea that this is "a bedrock belief" of Mormonism? In 1 Corinthians 8:5-6 Paul says, "For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him."

So, even though he is acknowledging others who are called "gods," not only on earth but in heaven, he is absolutely clear in stating that they have nothing whatsoever to do with us. To us there is only one God.

Now, consider the following verses:

Exodus 18:11 Now I know that the LORD is greater than all gods: for in the thing wherein they dealt proudly he was above them.

Deuteronomy 10:17 For the LORD your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords, a great God, a mighty, and a terrible, which regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward...

Joshua 22:22 The LORD God of gods, the LORD God of gods, he knoweth, and Israel he shall know; if it be in rebellion, or if in transgression against the LORD...

2 Chronicles 2:2 And the house which I build is great: for great is our God above all gods.

Psalm 95:3 For the LORD is a great God, and a great King above all gods.

Psalm 136:2 O give thanks unto the God of gods: for his mercy endureth for ever.

Psalm 138:1 I will praise thee with my whole heart: before the gods will I sing praise unto thee.

John 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

We can't just assume that every reference to "gods" is a reference to false gods, idols or demons. Otherwise, we'd have to be able to explain what on earth some of the above verses mean in the context of how we have defined the word "gods." For example, would we feel comfortable in saying that God is "the God of false gods"? Of course not. I think that in order to be safe, we need to pay attention to what Paul said in the verses I started out with. We have no idea who these beings the scriptures calls "gods" are. All we know is that the Bible says they exist and that they are completely irrelevant in our lives. It is when we start worshipping them that they become "false gods" because they cannot hear or answer our prayers or have any affect in our lives.

As for what Mormons believe about God, here are two passages straight from The Book of Mormon:

2 Nephi 21:31 And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way; and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end.

Mormon 7:7 And he hath brought to pass the redemption of the world, whereby he that is found guiltless before him at the judgment day hath it given unto him to dwell in the presence of God in his kingdom, to sing ceaseless praises with the choirs above, unto the Father, and unto the Son, and unto the Holy Ghost, which are one God, in a state of happiness which hath no end.

I'm interested to see what about either of those passages you see as un-Christian.

 

[Katzpur]

Is he actually Catholic? I was making a bit of a joke on the assumption that he wasn't... considering how Sola Scriptura his arguments are.

Yes, he is. I replied to one of his posts on the forum I was referring to by saying, "You know, for someone who objects to the doctrine of Sola Scriptura (Catholics and Mormons have this in common, by the way), you're awfully quick to judge extra-biblical teachings as wrong (clearly without having done any research into the basis of said teaching). He didn't bother to respond.

 

[Dogknox]

For crying out loud, where on God's green earth did you get the idea that this is "a bedrock belief" of Mormonism? In 1 Corinthians 8:5-6 Paul says, "For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him."

So, even though he is acknowledging others who are called "gods," not only on earth but in heaven, he is absolutely clear in stating that they have nothing whatsoever to do with us. To us there is only one God.

Now, consider the following verses:

Exodus 18:11 Now I know that the LORD is greater than all gods: for in the thing wherein they dealt proudly he was above them.

Deuteronomy 10:17 For the LORD your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords, a great God, a mighty, and a terrible, which regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward...

Joshua 22:22 The LORD God of gods, the LORD God of gods, he knoweth, and Israel he shall know; if it be in rebellion, or if in transgression against the LORD...

2 Chronicles 2:2 And the house which I build is great: for great is our God above all gods.

Psalm 95:3 For the LORD is a great God, and a great King above all gods.

Psalm 136:2 O give thanks unto the God of gods: for his mercy endureth for ever.

Psalm 138:1 I will praise thee with my whole heart: before the gods will I sing praise unto thee.

John 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

We can't just assume that every reference to "gods" is a reference to false gods, idols or demons. Otherwise, we'd have to be able to explain what on earth some of the above verses mean in the context of how we have defined the word "gods." For example, would we feel comfortable in saying that God is "the God of false gods"? Of course not. I think that in order to be safe, we need to pay attention to what Paul said in the verses I started out with. We have no idea who these beings the scriptures calls "gods" are. All we know is that the Bible says they exist and that they are completely irrelevant in our lives. It is when we start worshipping them that they become "false gods" because they cannot hear or answer our prayers or have any affect in our lives.

As for what Mormons believe about God, here are two passages straight from The Book of Mormon:

2 Nephi 21:31 And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way; and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end.

Mormon 7:7 And he hath brought to pass the redemption of the world, whereby he that is found guiltless before him at the judgment day hath it given unto him to dwell in the presence of God in his kingdom, to sing ceaseless praises with the choirs above, unto the Father, and unto the Son, and unto the Holy Ghost, which are one God, in a state of happiness which hath no end.

I'm interested to see what about either of those passages you see as un-Christian.

Katzpur Thank you for your reply..
I ask.. Do Mormons believe; Each (good) Mormon will be "A God of his own planet as Jesus is of earth??!!"
You take Exodus 18:11 out of CONTEXT!!
Read the whole passage.. It is referring to Egyptian gods!!

Deuteronomy 10:17 is again referring to Egyptian gods!!

Katzpur Your Mormon TWISTED scripture!!!
Joshua 22:22 The LORD God of gods, the LORD God of gods, he knoweth, and Israel he shall know; if it be in rebellion, or if in transgression against the LORD...

The scriptures written from the bible..New International Version
Joshua 22:22 &#8220;The Mighty One, God, the Lord! The Mighty One, God, the Lord! He knows! And let Israel know! If this has been in rebellion or disobedience to the Lord, do not spare us this day.

Notice ONE God in the NIV!!!?

Katzpur There is JUST one God...
God tells us..
Deuteronomy 4:35
You were shown these things so that you might know that the LORD is God; besides him there is no other.

Deuteronomy 4:39
Acknowledge and take to heart this day that the LORD is God in heaven above and on the earth below. There is no other.

1 Kings 8:60
so that all the peoples of the earth may know that the LORD is God and that there is no other.

Katzpur You will NOT be a god of your own planet >>There is NO other Gods!!
Christians believe in ONE God!!

Isaiah 45:5
I am the LORD, and there is no other; apart from me there is no God. I will strengthen you, though you have not acknowledged me,

Dogknox Apart from me there is no God.

 

[Dogknox]

No, I'm not.


... except for this part of the scriptures, right?

Romans 10:6-7:


I mean, you seem very fixated on the question of who will be saved and who won't be. Doesn't this go against the passage I quoted above?


You're still not answering my question. I get that you say that Christians have to "believe the words of Jesus", but right now, I don't care what you say; right now, I care what Jesus says. Where does Jesus - not you, but Jesus - say that being a Christian means accepting all the scriptures? Please point me to the chapter and verse where he says this.

You said..

I mean, you seem very fixated on the question of who will be saved and who won't be. Doesn't this go against the passage I quoted above?

I request.. "You rephrase your post!"
I never>EVER< said who would be saved.. NEVER!!
I said.. "CHRISTIANS are the people who believe the scriptures!"
SCRIPTURES SAY: Reject the scriptures and you reject Jesus!

9-10ths_Penguin you asked..

Where does Jesus - not you, but Jesus - say that being a Christian means accepting all the scriptures? Please point me to the chapter and verse where he says this.

John 12:48
There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; the very words I have spoken will condemn them at the last day.

9-10ths_Penguin Your argument is with scriptures and Jesus NOT me!
I believe the scriptures, I am Christian!
Do not accept the words of Jesus then you reject Jesus!

9-10ths_Penguin Do not accept the words of Jesus then you reject Jesus and condemn YOURSELF!!

Where does Jesus say that being a Christian means accepting all the scriptures?
Answer is: John 12:48 (above)

 

[Dogknox]

Members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints often speak of a "Great Apostasy." Even in Old Testament times, God's prophets warned that the time would come when the word of the Lord would not be found anywhere in the world.

In Amos 8:11-12, we are told, "Behold, the days come, saith the Lord God, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the Lord; And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the Lord, and shall not find it."

Contrary to most other Christian denominations, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints contends that this prophesy did, in fact, come to pass, and that shortly after the deaths of Christ's Apostles, the Church He personally established ceased to exist in its original form -- in other words that there was, for many, many years, a famine in the world "a famine of hearing the words of the Lord" and that, regardless of where one might wander in search of God's word, it could not be found.

Throughout the New Testament, the Apostles also warned that this was to happen. Paul seemed particularly concerned about the infant Church and frequently voiced his concerns to the early Christians. Among his statements to Christ's followers, are these:

Acts 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.

2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition&#8230;

Galatians 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel&#8230;

2 Timothy 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears&#8230;

Paul made it absolutely clear that (1)the flock would not only be attacked, it would not be spared, (2) Christ would not return to the earth until this universal "falling away" or "apostasy" had taken place, (3) these things were already beginning to take place as he spoke, and (4) the doctrines taught by the Savior would, in time, cease to endure.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints holds that during the first few centuries after the Savior and His Apostles died, Christianity began to evolve into something quite different than it had originally been. While the Apostles, who assumed leadership over the Church after Christ's death, undoubtedly did everything within their power to preserve and strengthen the Church, there were, unfortunately, other forces at work. Within a matter of just a few years following their deaths, the simplicity and purity of Christ&#8217;s teachings had begun to undergo some rather significant changes. Greek philosophical thought corrupted such basic doctrines as the true nature of God and man&#8217;s relationship to Him, as learned but uninspired men sought to make this new religion more acceptable to the masses, and especially to the non-Jewish convert. Finally, and probably most important of all, God withdrew His priesthood from the earth. What did this mean? It meant that there was no one left who held the authority to act in His name. With God no longer directing the affairs of His Church, man was on his own. Through debate and discussion, by vote and by compromise, what we now know as &#8220;mainstream&#8221; Christianity emerged.

Religious scholars describe this as "The Helenization of Christianity." We call it simply, "The Great Apostasy."

Does this mean that Christianity ceased to exist entirely? No. There have been devout Christians ever since the time of Christ. But the "fullness" of His gospel was taken from the earth, just as the ancient prophets said it would be.

Katzpur Jesus said; He is ALWAYS WITH his church to the very end of the age!!
This is scripture!!
Joseph Smith said; "There was NO church left on earth!" Opposite to scripture!!
For JS to say; "There was NO church left on earth!" he had to reject the scriptures!

Seventh Day Adventist say they are the only true church!
the Jehovah Witness say they are the only true church!
The Mormon church is no different then these!!

Katzpur CHRISTIANS believe the scriptures!! It is just this simple!
You believe "Satan somehow overpowered Jesus"!! That "Satan TOOK Jesus' body from Jesus!!"
You want to think "Jesus would leave his bride, for your man made LDS body"!!

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I request.. "You rephrase your post!"
I never>EVER< said who would be saved.. NEVER!!

Yes you did. You've made pronouncements about who would be saved in most of your posts:

My understanding IS.. "Christians believe the words of Jesus, Christians believe IN Jesus, All who believe the words of Jesus have ETERNAL LIFE!"

Christians have eternal life because they believe the scriptures..(ALL the scriptures)

My point... Some people say; "CAN'T lose salvation"!
Some people say; "You CAN lose salvation"! BOTH..
Both claim to be CHRISTIAN!! Clearly..
My QUESTION: Clearly one is WRONG, clearly one can't be Christian!!??

Some people say "Baptism saves"!
Some people say "Baptism does NOT save"!
Both claim to be CHRISTIAN.. One MUST be wrong!
One of the two can't be Christian!!

Your point 4)That's what saves you NOT believeing you can lose your salvation or what the right way to get baptized
*Losing salvation and Baptism are IN the scriptures!!
QUESTION is not..Rejecting Baptism or rejecting SALVATION rejecting the words of Jesus!

9-10ths_Penguin Reject the scriptures and then you CONDEMN yourself!

ALL....
All who believe the words of Jesus have FAITH IN Jesus!
All who believe the words of Scriptures have FAITH IN Jesus!
All who believe the words of Jesus have ETERNAL LIFE!!!
All who believe the scriptures have ETERNAL LIFE!

I said.. "CHRISTIANS are the people who believe the scriptures!"
SCRIPTURES SAY: Reject the scriptures and you reject Jesus!

Yes: you said. I didn't ask for what you say; I asked for what Jesus says.

9-10ths_Penguin you asked..
John 12:48
There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; the very words I have spoken will condemn them at the last day.

That doesn't answer my question. How can that be an answer to the question of what Jesus says it means to be a Christian when it doesn't even have the word "Christian" in it?

9-10ths_Penguin Your argument is with scriptures and Jesus NOT me!
I believe the scriptures, I am Christian!
Do not accept the words of Jesus then you reject Jesus!

If you believe them, then why don't you follow them?

9-10ths_Penguin Do not accept the words of Jesus then you reject Jesus and condemn YOURSELF!!

Where does Jesus say that being a Christian means accepting all the scriptures?
Answer is: John 12:48 (above)

No, it's not. John 12:48 doesn't even have the word "Christian" in it; how can it be the answer to my question?

 

[Katzpur]

Katzpur Thank you for your reply..
I ask.. Do Mormons believe; Each (good) Mormon will be "A God of his own planet as Jesus is of earth??!!"
You take Exodus 18:11 out of CONTEXT!!
Read the whole passage.. It is referring to Egyptian gods!!

Deuteronomy 10:17 is again referring to Egyptian gods!!

Katzpur Your Mormon TWISTED scripture!!!
Joshua 22:22 The LORD God of gods, the LORD God of gods, he knoweth, and Israel he shall know; if it be in rebellion, or if in transgression against the LORD...

The scriptures written from the bible..New International Version
Joshua 22:22 &#8220;The Mighty One, God, the Lord! The Mighty One, God, the Lord! He knows! And let Israel know! If this has been in rebellion or disobedience to the Lord, do not spare us this day.

Notice ONE God in the NIV!!!?

Katzpur There is JUST one God...
God tells us..
Deuteronomy 4:35
You were shown these things so that you might know that the LORD is God; besides him there is no other.

Deuteronomy 4:39
Acknowledge and take to heart this day that the LORD is God in heaven above and on the earth below. There is no other.

1 Kings 8:60
so that all the peoples of the earth may know that the LORD is God and that there is no other.

Katzpur You will NOT be a god of your own planet >>There is NO other Gods!!
Christians believe in ONE God!!

Isaiah 45:5
I am the LORD, and there is no other; apart from me there is no God. I will strengthen you, though you have not acknowledged me,

Dogknox Apart from me there is no God.

Sorry, Dogknox, I have absolutely no interest in continuing this debate with someone who believes that God is the God of false gods. (By the way, my "twisted Mormon scripture" happens to be the KJV. I believe it's considered a legitimate translation by millions of non-LDS Christians.)

 

[Katzpur]

Katzpur Jesus said; He is ALWAYS WITH his church to the very end of the age!!
This is scripture!!
Joseph Smith said; "There was NO church left on earth!" Opposite to scripture!!
For JS to say; "There was NO church left on earth!" he had to reject the scriptures!

There were plenty of churches left on the earth -- just not the one Jesus Christ had established.

Seventh Day Adventist say they are the only true church!
the Jehovah Witness say they are the only true church!
The Mormon church is no different then these!!

I'll be damned. And so does the Catholic Church. Somebody must be wrong.

CHRISTIANS believe the scriptures!! It is just this simple!

I heard you the first time, and I responded the first time. I believe the scriptures every bit as much as you do. I just have a few more of them to draw from than you do.

You believe "Satan somehow overpowered Jesus"!! That "Satan TOOK Jesus' body from Jesus!!"
You want to think "Jesus would leave his bride, for your man made LDS body"!!

You don't know **** about what Mormons believe. Stop bearing false witness against us. Or isn't that commandment part of Catholicism? I never said one word about Satan overpowering Jesus or taking Jesus' body away from Him. Jesus didn't leave His bride, pal. She died and her replacement just turned out to be a whore.

You know what, Dogknox? You really need to grow up. People like you may be able to get away with murder on City-Data, but that's not the case on RF. Keep this crap up and I guarantee you won't be around for long. We really, really don't like trolls here.