What is a "Christian"!?

[Katzpur]

My point... Some people say; "CAN'T lose salvation"!
Some people say; "You CAN lose salvation"! BOTH..
Both claim to be CHRISTIAN!! Clearly..
My QUESTION: Clearly one is WRONG, clearly one can't be Christian!!??

Some people say "Baptism saves"!
Some people say "Baptism does NOT save"!
Both claim to be CHRISTIAN.. One MUST be wrong!
One of the two can't be Christian!!

Religious debate...
Debate about WHAT/WHO is "Christians" and who is NOT!!
Am I wrong to think both CAN'T be christian!!??

Yes, you're wrong. A Christian is someone who looks to Jesus Christ for salvation, and who tries to live the kind of life Christ told us to; it's not someone who never errs in understanding any Christian doctrine. Where on earth did you get that convoluted definition of a Christian? You certainly didn't get it from the Bible.

 

[Dogknox]

Katzpur your words..

There were plenty of churches left on the earth -- just not the one Jesus Christ had established.

The words of Jesus.. "I am with you >ALWAYS, even to the very end of the age"!<

Seventh Day Adventist say they are the only true church!
The Jehovah Witness say they are the only true church!
The Mormon church is no different then these, they also say "They are the only true church!!!"

Your words..

I'll be damned. And so does the Catholic Church. Somebody must be wrong.

I reply.. The Seventh Day Adventist The Jehovah Witness & the Mormon first appeared at the very least SIXTEEN HUNDRED (1600) years AFTER Jesus said.. "I am with you ALWAYS, even to the very end of the age"!

Christians believe the scriptures!

I heard you the first time, and I responded the first time. I believe the scriptures every bit as much as you do. I just have a few more of them to draw from than you do.

I reply.. The book of Mormon is NOT scripture!

Your words..

You don't know **** about what Mormons believe. Stop bearing false witness against us. Or isn't that commandment part of Catholicism? I never said one word about Satan overpowering Jesus or taking Jesus' body away from Him. Jesus didn't leave His bride, pal. She died and her replacement just turned out to be a whore.

Insult is a sign of someone needing to GROW UP!!
Katzpur This is supposed to be respectful debate, so stop changing the subject!

The thread is "What is a Christian!!" Stop trying to derail it!!!:troll:

Dogknox

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Dogknox, how do you know what's "scripture" and what's not?

 

[sojourner]

Somebody must be wrong.

Anyone who places the qualifier "only true" before "church" is mistaken.

The book of Mormon is NOT scripture!

Of course it is. So are the Didache, Thomas, Shepherd of Hermas, etc.
but the NT texts were not for at least the first 40 or so years of the church's existence.

A Christian is whomever Christ identifies as a Christian.

 

[Dogknox]

Dogknox, how do you know what's "scripture" and what's not?

Hello 9-10ths_Penguin Good question!!
I would say.. "All that is found in the bible is scriptures!"

It can be reinforced/complemented by other "Works" example the "Early Church Father's!"

9-10ths_Penguin IF in doubt ask the CHURCH!!
1 Timothy 3:15
if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.

Matthew 18:17
If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

The CHURCH has spent her entire life in the INTERPRETATION of scriptures.. She is the EXPERT!
I am NOT a scripture scholar.
I am NOT an EXPERT in ancient languages and customs!
I do NOT know Greek, Hebrew, or Latin!
I am NOT an Archaeologist!
I am NOT an expert in anything.. but the Church is!!

I trust her expertise, simply because; This is all she does> Search for truth!

 

[sojourner]

"All that is found in the bible is scriptures!"

Define "the Bible." Protestants include 66 books. RCs several more, Orthodox a few more, the Ethiopians more yet. The Coptics' canon is different from the RC canon.

Plus, there are several books, gospels, letters, etc. that are extra-canonical, yet are more authentic than some that are included in the canon.

Define "Bible."

 

[Shermana]

Where on earth did you get that convoluted definition of a Christian? You certainly didn't get it from the Bible.

And the Bible says that the first use of "Christian" was for the "Disciples" at the Antioch Church under Peters' authority, who were probably "Disciples" before Paul converted, the original 70 or such.

Most likely a Messianic Nazarene Israelite community.

 

[Nakosis]

Hello 9-10ths_Penguin Good question!!
I would say.. "All that is found in the bible is scriptures!"

It can be reinforced/complemented by other "Works" example the "Early Church Father's!"

9-10ths_Penguin IF in doubt ask the CHURCH!!
1 Timothy 3:15
if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.

Matthew 18:17
If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

The CHURCH has spent her entire life in the INTERPRETATION of scriptures.. She is the EXPERT!
I am NOT a scripture scholar.
I am NOT an EXPERT in ancient languages and customs!
I do NOT know Greek, Hebrew, or Latin!
I am NOT an Archaeologist!
I am NOT an expert in anything.. but the Church is!!

I trust her expertise, simply because; This is all she does> Search for truth!

The church is not an entity. The church is the people, a group of individuals.

I suppose you can argue now which is the church of the living God.

Personally I don't see any reason to accept the claims of any of the Catholic or Protestant churches, at least not greater then any other claims.

What group of Christian you choose to see as having any authority seems to me a personal choice.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

The church is not an entity. The church is the people, a group of individuals.

I suppose you can argue now which is the church of the living God.

Personally I don't see any reason to accept the claims of any of the Catholic or Protestant churches, at least not greater then any other claims.

What group of Christian you choose to see as having any authority seems to me a personal choice.

... not to mention an un-Biblical, IMO. Doesn't the Bible record Jesus saying "where two or three of you are gathered in my name, there I will be also"?

 

[Katzpur]

Katzpur your words..
The words of Jesus.. "I am with you >ALWAYS, even to the very end of the age"!<

Seventh Day Adventist say they are the only true church!
The Jehovah Witness say they are the only true church!
The Mormon church is no different then these, they also say "They are the only true church!!!"

Your words..
I reply.. The Seventh Day Adventist The Jehovah Witness & the Mormon first appeared at the very least SIXTEEN HUNDRED (1600) years AFTER Jesus said.. "I am with you ALWAYS, even to the very end of the age"!

And as I explained, Jesus always has been with believers. You won't get any argument with me on that point. On the other hand, Jesus never claimed that the Church He established would continue to exist as He left it. I don't believe it did. I believe that after His death and the deaths of the Apostles, men changed it. It has since been re-established and exists today.

Christians believe the scriptures!

I reply.. The book of Mormon is NOT scripture!

Sure it is. It's just not your scriptures.

This is supposed to be respectful debate, so stop changing the subject!

So start being respectful already.

The thread is "What is a Christian!!" Stop trying to derail it!!!:troll:

Me a troll? That's funny. If I were a troll, Dogknox, I don't think it would have taken the staff 22,600 posts to ban me.

 

[Dogknox]

Define "the Bible." Protestants include 66 books. RCs several more, Orthodox a few more, the Ethiopians more yet. The Coptics' canon is different from the RC canon.

Plus, there are several books, gospels, letters, etc. that are extra-canonical, yet are more authentic than some that are included in the canon.

Define "Bible."

sojourner I hope all is well...
You ask a good question!!
Bible: A BOOK that contains "ALL" the inspired works of God!

Scripture manuscripts were in disarray; false, phony, bogus, distorted manuscripts were being taught.. NO ONE knew what the real, truly God inspired manuscripts were until all the real manuscripts were put into one place the place was a BOOK called "The Bible!"

All who believe the scriptures/manuscripts found in the bible are Christian!
Protestants, Catholic, Orthodox, Coptic etc!!
BUT...
Reject the scriptures then NOT Christian!! IMO

Jesus made ONE Church! This is scripture!
Jesus LOVES his Church!
He died for his Church!
His Church is Holy, without stain, BLAMELESS!
His Church is his Body!
Jesus feeds his Church!
Jesus' Church is the Pillar and the foundation of truth!
etc..

sojourner QUESTION.. Can you find fault with this statment>>"Christians believe the scriptures"!?

I made the question in lime green so you would see it!

 

[Katzpur]

Hello 9-10ths_Penguin Good question!!
I would say.. "All that is found in the bible is scriptures!"

It can be reinforced/complemented by other "Works" example the "Early Church Father's!"

:biglaugh:That's a hoot! Scripture is whatever is found in the Bible plus anything else you personally happen to want to call scripture. Man, you're good, Dogknox!

 

[tumbleweed41]

MOD POST

Please keep the debate civil and refrain from name-calling and accusations.

Critique each other's ideas all you want, but under no circumstances personally attack each other

While questioning and challenging other beliefs is appropriate in the debates forums, repeated blatant misrepresentation or continual harassment of other beliefs will not be tolerated.
​

 

[Nakosis]

Can you find fault with this statment>>"Christians believe the scriptures"!?

I made the question in lime green so you would see it!

My objection would be, I don't see where any one church has any authority designate what is to be accepted as scripture for any other church.

Assuming in being a Christian they choose follow the commandments specifically mentioned by Jesus.

Though I''d think it's fair to question any who think it is not necessary to follow Jesus' teachings.

 

[sojourner]

sojourner I hope all is well...
You ask a good question!!
Bible: A BOOK that contains "ALL" the inspired works of God!

Scripture manuscripts were in disarray; false, phony, bogus, distorted manuscripts were being taught.. NO ONE knew what the real, truly God inspired manuscripts were until all the real manuscripts were put into one place the place was a BOOK called "The Bible!"

All who believe the scriptures/manuscripts found in the bible are Christian!
Protestants, Catholic, Orthodox, Coptic etc!!
BUT...
Reject the scriptures then NOT Christian!! IMO

Jesus made ONE Church! This is scripture!
Jesus LOVES his Church!
He died for his Church!
His Church is Holy, without stain, BLAMELESS!
His Church is his Body!
Jesus feeds his Church!
Jesus' Church is the Pillar and the foundation of truth!
etc..

sojourner QUESTION.. Can you find fault with this statment>>"Christians believe the scriptures"!?

I made the question in lime green so you would see it!

You're dismissing the fact that different Christian bodies created different canons of scripture. Protestants think that some of the texts in the RC canon are not inspired. RC's don't recognize some of the texts in the Ethiopian canon. Plus, as I said, there are valid texts that were not canonized. Thomas, for example, should have been canonized and wasn't, simply because it wasn't discovered until after the canon was closed.

I would have to ask what, precisely, do you mean by "believe the scriptures." Do you mean a literalistic interpretation? Do you mean we think that God wrote them? What do you mean by "believe the scriptures?"

 

[sojourner]

My objection would be, I don't see where any one church has any authority designate what is to be accepted as scripture for any other church.

Assuming in being a Christian they choose follow the commandments specifically mentioned by Jesus.

Though I''d think it's fair to question any who think it is not necessary to follow Jesus' teachings.

The canon was a hermeneutical tool, intended solely to identify "stuff it's OK to read in church." It was intended to set a bar, not to dismiss other texts as being valid, useful, or inspired.

 

[Dogknox]

My objection would be, I don't see where any one church has any authority designate what is to be accepted as scripture for any other church.

Assuming in being a Christian they choose follow the commandments specifically mentioned by Jesus.

Though I''d think it's fair to question any who think it is not necessary to follow Jesus' teachings.

Nakosis good to meet you... You make a fair statement, I agree.

It's fair to question any who think it is not necessary to follow Jesus' teachings.

The scriptures are Jesus' teaching!!!
Thus CHRISTIANS are those who do; "Follow Jesus' teaching!"
Dogknox

 

[Storm]

Nakosis good to meet you... You make a fair statement, I agree.

The scriptures are Jesus' teaching!!!
Thus CHRISTIANS are those who do; "Follow Jesus' teaching!"
Dogknox

Jesus taught dietary law? I don't think so.

 

[Dogknox]

You're dismissing the fact that different Christian bodies created different canons of scripture. Protestants think that some of the texts in the RC canon are not inspired. RC's don't recognize some of the texts in the Ethiopian canon. Plus, as I said, there are valid texts that were not canonized. Thomas, for example, should have been canonized and wasn't, simply because it wasn't discovered until after the canon was closed.

I would have to ask what, precisely, do you mean by "believe the scriptures." Do you mean a literalistic interpretation? Do you mean we think that God wrote them? What do you mean by "believe the scriptures?"

Hello sojourner I am not prepared to go deeper..
FACT: Scriptures are Jesus' teaching!!
By scriptures I mean; All works found in a BIBLE!!

All who believe IN Jesus.. All who have Faith IN Jesus... All who TRUST in Jesus are those people who believe his words! THESE....

These people are called Christian!

Dogknox

 

[tumbleweed41]

What Bible!!!????

That is what you are being asked, and constantly avoiding.