What is a "Christian"!?

[Dogknox]

Where in the scriptures does it say that you should believe in scriptures alone?

9-10ths_Penguin The scriptures are very, very clear "You should believe the CHURCH!"

Fact is the scriptures PROVE the person who believes the Church is the more NOBLE!
Acts 17:11
Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

9-10ths_Penguin Do you see the "and"? (above) This tells you they accepted the TEACHING of Church PLUS the scriptures!
The LESS NOBLE people of Thessalonica believed in "Scriptures ALONE" they refused to listen to Church/Paul!!

But this digresses, the topic of this thread is "Who is Christian!"

The Bereans would be Christian because they listened to the CHURCH!
Matthew 18:17
If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

The people of Thessalonica rejected the words of CHURCH they believed in Scriptures ALONE they would be PAGAN!!

 

[Dogknox]

And it's (Sola scriptura) found nowhere in Scripture. That makes it extra-Scriptural, BY DEFINITION.

Funny how you forget the meaning of words when they become inconvenient.

AND.....
And your point is what???!!
That Christians reject the scriptures????

 

[Katzpur]

NOPE ... Sole SCriptura is belief in Scriptures >>ALONE<<!
Martin Luther said.. "All we need is the scriptures, even a small child can interpret the scriptures rightly"!

That's not what you said earlier. Earlier you said we were to believe the scriptures and the teachings of the early Church fathers. If we are to believe in the teachings of the early Church fathers, we are not believing in scripture alone.

 

[Katzpur]

Katzpur lets get something straight... WHO....
Who is JUDGING!!!!!!!!?

Oh, I think we've all got it straight, Dogknox. I'm not the one who's categorizing Jesus Christ's followers as either Christian or non-Christian based upon his own personal interpretation of the scriptures. We're 144 posts into this thread, and so far the only person who has agreed with your narrow-minded definition of "Christian" is you. The other 17 people who have posted have a much broader definition of the word. Who's doing the judging? Uh... look in the mirror.

I am saying; "It is the people who believe the scriptures that can claim the title; Christian"!

I judge no one!!!

Oh yes you do. You have repeatedly said that I, as a Mormon, am not a Christian. That is judging.

I am saying if a person REJECTS the scriptures then the person is REJECTING Jesus! It is just this simple!!
LOGIC tells you I am right!!!

But you've said I'm not a Christian when, in fact, I believe the scriptures. Have I said you're not a Christian? (No, I haven't; on the other hand, I will say you're not behaving much like one.)

 

[Storm]

AND.....
And your point is what???!!
That Christians reject the scriptures????

My point is that your argument is inconsistent at best, downright hypocritical at worst. Idolatrous, either way.

Now stop putting words in my mouth.

ETA: Also, don't edit my quotes, or if you feel you must, point out your additions.

 

[roberto]

Given the wide range of Christian denominations and beliefs, I think your definition isn't very accurate. Catholics, Jehovah Witnesses, and evangelical "messianic Jews" are all Christian groups, and yet they are so different in belief and action.

Same rule applies to Judaism ?

 

[roberto]

Do you have any scriptural support for the idea that "baptism is a public symbol of your salvation"? From what I've read in the Bible, I can't think of anywhere where this is how baptism is described.

Baptism means "to cleanse" [not with soap] ..to take a Mikvah[ritual bath] and stems from the "old testament"

Nothing to do with "salvation"

 

[roberto]

9-10ths_Penguin The scriptures are very, very clear "You should believe the CHURCH!"

Fact is the scriptures PROVE the person who believes the Church is the more NOBLE!
Acts 17:11
Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

9-10ths_Penguin Do you see the "and"? (above) This tells you they accepted the TEACHING of Church PLUS the scriptures!
The LESS NOBLE people of Thessalonica believed in "Scriptures ALONE" they refused to listen to Church/Paul!!

But this digresses, the topic of this thread is "Who is Christian!"

The Bereans would be Christian because they listened to the CHURCH!
Matthew 18:17
If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

The people of Thessalonica rejected the words of CHURCH they believed in Scriptures ALONE they would be PAGAN!!

The word "church" refer to the heathens in the temple of Diana.......

Check out the Tyndale "new testament"[very first English new testament].

 

[cablescavenger]

cablescavenger thank you for your reply.
I agree "To be Baptizes you MUST believe Baptism saves!"
To believe Baptism saves you >>MUST<< believe the scriptures!

QUESTION.. Where...
Where do you find the "TEACHINGS" of Jesus!?

Your words..

I must point out "Jesus' TEACHING are all found in the scriptures!

Please reply

Dogknox

I mean the New Testament by Jesus teachings.

I don't agree that you must believe it to be a Christian.

If you have already been Christened you are Christian whether you believe the bible or not.

For instance I am an atheist, but have been Christened and labelled a Christian. It is neither here nor there whether I believe the bible or not.

 

[gerobbins]

gerobbins Good to meet you.. So by your definition all Policemen are Christians!?:sarcastic
By you difinition; "Christians do NOT need the scriptures, to be Christian!!?? So much for "Sola scriptura!"

Storm is this right.. "Christians can reject scriptures???!"

Dogknox

Ok, lets look at it this way. when Jesus preached, he did quote scripture. However, he also said that it is more important that we love our fellow brothers and sisters. He was in reference to Jews and Gentiles alike.

When a women who was accused of adultery was brought before him, they said they Law said she must be stoned to death.

He replied "Stone her, but only those who are without sin may cast the first stone."

He is quoted many times on the judgement of others as well.

Forgiveness is the key to being a good Christian, to be forgiven and the ability to forgive.

The bottom line is this Jesus taught us one thing and thing only. Have love for one another.

 

[Shermana]

Ok, lets look at it this way. when Jesus preached, he did quote scripture. However, he also said that it is more important that we love our fellow brothers and sisters. He was in reference to Jews and Gentiles alike.

Jesus never said that "love" was more important. He defined what "love" is. What do you think "love" means exactly?

When a women who was accused of adultery was brought before him, they said they Law said she must be stoned to death.

Once again, this story is most likely an interpolation that doesn't show up in any of the earliest manuscripts.

He replied "Stone her, but only those who are without sin may cast the first stone."

But he most likely didn't say that and this was later inserted.

He is quoted many times on the judgement of others as well.

How is he quoted? He seems to have been very judgmental to those whose doctrines he opposed.

Forgiveness is the key to being a good Christian, to be forgiven and the ability to forgive.

Forgiveness of what exactly?

The bottom line is this Jesus taught us one thing and thing only. Have love for one another.

If you think that's the one thing that Jesus taught then you need to try reading the Gospels, you'll find a lot of details in how that is addressed. I find it odd how much it seems "Christians" want to reduce what Jesus said to "love" as if that's ALL he said, and if that in any way defines what "love" means.

 

[Shermana]

AND.....
And your point is what???!!
That Christians reject the scriptures????

Which scripture? The NT Canon?

Not even the Church Fathers all agreed on the NT or "OT" scripture. Were they not "Christians'" until the 5th century Roman canon was decided? Why can Christians reject the Ethiopian canon? Who says which is right?

 

[sojourner]

My comments were made in reference to the Council of Trent, mid 1500's. When there was a RCC and several doctrine were made by the RCC in response to the Protestant movement.

Ah! Thanks for clearing that up. I'd misunderstood you.

 

[sojourner]

Rejecting the words of Jesus proves the person rejects Jesus!!!

Not necessarily. If that were the case, only the church with the largest canon would be real Christians. And, really, not even they, for there is still the Thomas problem.

 

[sojourner]

The scriptures are very, very clear "You should believe the CHURCH!"

A lot of what the church teaches is extra-biblical...

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

Oh my, banned already. What's up dog?

 

[gerobbins]

Jesus never said that "love" was more important. He defined what "love" is. What do you think "love" means exactly?
Once again, this story is most likely an interpolation that doesn't show up in any of the earliest manuscripts.
But he most likely didn't say that and this was later inserted.


How is he quoted? He seems to have been very judgmental to those whose doctrines he opposed.



Forgiveness of what exactly?

If you think that's the one thing that Jesus taught then you need to try reading the Gospels, you'll find a lot of details in how that is addressed. I find it odd how much it seems "Christians" want to reduce what Jesus said to "love" as if that's ALL he said, and if that in any way defines what "love" means.

Buddy you are taking this way out of context.

Jesus taught one simple thing : Do unto others as you would want done unto you.

Bottom line that is what it is all about.

 

[Bob Dixon]

Buddy you are taking this way out of context.

Jesus taught one simple thing : Do unto others as you would want done unto you.

Bottom line that is what it is all about.

Jesus had many teachings. That was just one of them. There's a reason we have four canonical Gospels, and not one canonical Sentence.

 

[Nakosis]

Jesus had many teachings. That was just one of them. There's a reason we have four canonical Gospels, and not one canonical Sentence.

Jesus provided several commandments.

Like how to pray, feed the hungry, forgive others their offenses against you etc...

 

[Shermana]

Buddy you are taking this way out of context.

Jesus taught one simple thing : Do unto others as you would want done unto you.

Bottom line that is what it is all about.

It's amazing how many "Christians" have not actually read the scriptures they make such bold (yet false) assertions about.

You'd be surprised how much insight you'll gain with just a little simple reading like the Sermon on the Mount, you'll find all kinds of teachings and commands.

If Jesus only taught one simple thing like "do unto others as you would want done unto you", well I have to break it to ya, Buddha beat it to him by about 600 years.

Now for your homework, crack open the Sermon on the Mount and list just 3 commands you see.