What is a perfect being like?

[Penumbra]

Jesus is a perfect being. Therefore, a perfect being would have Christ-like qualities.

In what way is Jesus a perfect being? What qualities or actions make him perfect?

 

[stillsearching]

What is a perfect being like?

Isn't this thread in danger of becoming just another commentary on me?

Hilarious!

 

[joea]

Hilarious!

The kid must be writing an essay for school or something?...lol

 

[Viajero del Oso]

Sometimes, when there is less to do right now than there will be, I'll feel restless for the moment. This happened recently when I got off work early. Because my bus would not come for two hours, I felt restless.

Sometimes, I'll be striving to improve myself. I used to interrupt people too much. I was impatient and too chaotic. Now, I am a better listener.

But I'm restless. What do I do now, with this capability that I've learned? On labor day, I was starting a fire to cook some chicken with my father. My three dogs were laying belly up on the sandy soil in our backyard. They seemed so content. And if I whistled to them, they came over to me and I got to pet them.

This contrasts differently from me, who is never satisfied. I always ask the questions. Sometimes I even ask one that makes sense.

What constitutes a perfect being? Perhaps that is for someone else to know. Sometimes I feel like I'm climbing a mountain. But there will be plenty of lakes along the way, I know.

 

[Martin John]

In the stage of perfection called trance, or samädhi, one's mind is completely restrained from material mental activities by practice of yoga. This perfection is characterized by one's ability to see the self by the pure mind and to relish and rejoice in the self. In that joyous state, one is situated in boundless transcendental happiness, realized through transcendental senses. Established thus, one never departs from the truth, and upon gaining this he thinks there is no greater gain. Being situated in such a position, one is never shaken, even in the midst of greatest difficulty. This indeed is actual freedom from all miseries arising from material contact.

 

[Walkntune]

I think the answer is in the very question you are asking. It is a person who is being and not doing.I think the closest a human can come is to be love, joy, peace, long suffering.Most of the world is looking for these things and so are busy doing things to try and acquire these traits.We are busy trying to do things to find love which is the perfect fulfilment in the void inside of us. If you become love and give to others you find yourself becoming a vessel of love and soon you can't give out as much as is coming in . You can never out give God.If you are doing things for fulfilment then you will probably find the hole you are trying to fulfil in your life getting bigger and bigger.
We were originally human beings but have turned into human doers.We think if we show a certain amount of intelligence,have the greenest grass in our yards,have a certain amount of toys, then we will find love and approval from others.In the end you are only measured by how much you have been there for others and the amount of love you have given. The rest is nothing more than what you have taken.

 

[zenzero]

Friend Penumbra,

In what way was the Buddha perfect? What is it that makes him perfect?

You missed the point!
Buddha is not a person it is a state in which the individual is no more. It is a state wherein the individual energy merges with the universal. It is no more two.
It is a state that every individual reaches sometime and often EXCEPT that the individual is unaware of it.
The individual is unaware as his mind keeps him divided or away from it by keeping the mind occupied with THOUGHTS.
Presently while reading few may already have pre-conceived notions like *do not believe in perfection etc.* or some other thoughts could occupy their minds and they will keep missing the point.
It is only through silence that perfection can be reached. Silence happens when the mind is free of all thoughts and one is free of thoughts when all desires fall; even the desire to be *PERFECT* is a desire which leads to the mind THINK and even a slight cloud of thought will be like a curtain between the individual and the *WHOLE* or UNIVERSAL.

Love & rgds

 

[Midnight Pete]

In what way is Jesus a perfect being? What qualities or actions make him perfect?

Read about Jesus in the New Testament!

 

[Penumbra]

Friend Penumbra,

You missed the point!
Buddha is not a person it is a state in which the individual is no more. It is a state wherein the individual energy merges with the universal. It is no more two.
It is a state that every individual reaches sometime and often EXCEPT that the individual is unaware of it.
The individual is unaware as his mind keeps him divided or away from it by keeping the mind occupied with THOUGHTS.
Presently while reading few may already have pre-conceived notions like *do not believe in perfection etc.* or some other thoughts could occupy their minds and they will keep missing the point.
It is only through silence that perfection can be reached. Silence happens when the mind is free of all thoughts and one is free of thoughts when all desires fall; even the desire to be *PERFECT* is a desire which leads to the mind THINK and even a slight cloud of thought will be like a curtain between the individual and the *WHOLE* or UNIVERSAL.

Love & rgds

I'm aware that Buddha is a title. When someone's post consists only of the word "Buddha", it's difficult to know whether they're referencing a particular Buddha or something else. By "the Buddha", I was referring to Siddhattha Gautama. I was asking what makes him perfect.

Can you clarify what it means to merge individual energy with the universal? Why is it perfect?

 

[Penumbra]

Read about Jesus in the New Testament!

I'm already familiar with the New Testament.

Can you explain why Jesus is perfect?

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Friend Penumbra,
You missed the point!
Buddha is not a person it is a state in which the individual is no more. It is a state wherein the individual energy merges with the universal. It is no more two.
It is a state that every individual reaches sometime and often EXCEPT that the individual is unaware of it.
The individual is unaware as his mind keeps him divided or away from it by keeping the mind occupied with THOUGHTS.
Presently while reading few may already have pre-conceived notions like *do not believe in perfection etc.* or some other thoughts could occupy their minds and they will keep missing the point.
It is only through silence that perfection can be reached. Silence happens when the mind is free of all thoughts and one is free of thoughts when all desires fall; even the desire to be *PERFECT* is a desire which leads to the mind THINK and even a slight cloud of thought will be like a curtain between the individual and the *WHOLE* or UNIVERSAL.

Love & rgds

Dear zenzero, what a wonderfully inspiring and clear explanation,...thank you. :namaste

 

[zenzero]

Friend Penumbra,

Can you clarify what it means to merge individual energy with the universal? Why is it perfect?

Kindly respond as to your own understanding on the subject to enable to steer those thoughts in the right direction [if they are already NOT so].

Love & rgds

 

[Penumbra]

Friend Penumbra,

Kindly respond as to your own understanding on the subject to enable to steer those thoughts in the right direction [if they are already NOT so].

Love & rgds

I've studied some eastern religions and talked to believers in many of them, so I have a variety of understandings of different viewpoints rather than a single one. I'm not sure whether you're asking me to indicate my level of knowledge in this subject or to provide my own personal views of the subject. I guess I'll do both and you let me know if I've given enough info for you to work with.

I've studied Buddhism and Hinduism, including differing subsets of them. In talking with believers of those religions, I've found several different views on all things. Some talk of merging with the godhead and retaining individuality, while others talk of merging with the godhead and losing individuality. Some (notably Buddhists) disregard the god concept altogether and instead focus on eliminating ego. Some believe that the conscious can merge with everything while others believe that conscious units remain discrete but a sense of permanent qualities of self disappear, meaning that each unit is merely a unit of pure consciousness.

My personal view is that since consciousness apparently arises due to biological processes, it cannot merge with anything, and dies when the body stops functioning. Even if the believer experiences a sense of merging or oneness, it's all in his mind rather than an actually occurring phenomena, and his consciousness will cease when his body eventually dies. But the point of this thread is to have people explain what they think a perfect being is like, so for the sake of discussion I'm working with whatever definitions and beliefs they present.

In a thread a little while back in the religious Debate section about Buddhism, I debated with people that a being is not truly experiencing oneness unless it can experience what any being in the universe experiences. If it cannot, then it is experiencing separateness.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Over the course of religious discussion on various forums, I've seen the idea put forth on multiple occasions that the purpose of human existence is to perfect the soul. Improving is a common concept in religion.

So I ask, what in your view is a perfect being like? What do they do? What do they think? What is the personality like? Is it a contemplative being devoid of emotion? Is it an emotionally and happy person? What information or understanding do they have, or have they acquired, that grants perfection? And what are the benefits of reaching perfection?

(Also, if you believe the purpose is to continually improve and don't believe in perfection, then describe some really advanced soul or something.)

Hi Penumbra, interesting question.

IMHO there are no perfect beings, only one perfect being. This one and only perfection is THAT which encompasses all that exists.

For those enlightened beings who understand there is only one perfect being, they would probably respond to human beings who ask the question about it like this.....

Buddha once entered a village. A man in the morning asked him, "Does God Exist?"

Buddha replied, "No, absolutely not!"

In the afternoon, another man approached and posed the same question, "Does God exist?'

Buddha said, "Of course yes!"

In the evening, the third man asked the same question

The enlightened one closed His eyes and remained silent.

The inquirer too closed his eyes. Something transpired and the man bent forward and touched the feet of Buddha reverentially. He said, "You are the first man who has answered my question" and left feeling grateful.

Ananda, Buddha's attendant who was a witness, was confused about the conflicting answers of the master to the same question. When Buddha was retiring to bed, he told Him, "Please do be more compassionate on me as I am puzzled. The other three people have not listened to your different answers, but I have. So please dispel my confusion"

The enlightened one opened up. "In the first place, My answers to their question had nothing to do with God. My approach was rather towards the questioner than the question.

The first person who approached me was a theist, a believer in God. The second was an atheist, who believed in the absence of God. The person who believed in God wanted to confirm his belief about God and the person who believed there was no God wanted to confirm his belief in the non-existence of God. All beliefs are barriers to the realization of the truth. Theist or atheists they are all tied to their own beliefs and systems!

As Ananda listened intently, Buddha continued, "The third man was a real enquirer. He was not concerned with the existence or non existence of God. He wanted the bare truth. So I remained silent looking within. My message to him was to be silent and know. There is no need to raise any questions as it is not a question to be answered, rather a quest or a thirst. Thus he simply followed me and in his silence, when he looked within, something transpired. He was so overwhelmed with gratitude as I did not provide any intellectual answer but the very taste of the existential truth!"

Can the mundane mind get to know the way of the enlightened?

IMO, religion is not supposed to be about knowledge or belief about anything, but is a practice to realize actual reality/truth directly, beyond the mundane mind's conceptualization of IT.

 

[Madhuri]

The perfect being is completely Realised. He/she/it exists in a state of pure Love.

 

[Midnight Pete]

I'm already familiar with the New Testament.

Can you explain why Jesus is perfect?

He is without sin. He is the Son of God.

 

[zenzero]

Friend Penumbra,
Following is the personal understand as response to your response.

I've studied some eastern religions and talked to believers in many of them, so I have a variety of understandings of different viewpoints rather than a single one. I'm not sure whether you're asking me to indicate my level of knowledge in this subject or to provide my own personal views of the subject. I guess I'll do both and you let me know if I've given enough info for you to work with.

I've studied Buddhism and Hinduism, including differing subsets of them. In talking with believers of those religions, I've found several different views on all things. Some talk of merging with the godhead and retaining individuality, while others talk of merging with the godhead and losing individuality. Some (notably Buddhists) disregard the god concept altogether and instead focus on eliminating ego. Some believe that the conscious can merge with everything while others believe that conscious units remain discrete but a sense of permanent qualities of self disappear, meaning that each unit is merely a unit of pure consciousness.
Kindly understand that the reason for Gautama's not using the label *god* is to personal understanding the perceived notion of the label which has been used since .....
EGO is nothing but the *SELF* losing the ego itself means to lose that individual self and in turn it is not two which is same as Sanatan Dharma which is what got evolved through Gautama.
When CONSCIOUSNESS is present, MIND [thoughts] are absent. Thoughts means perception which clouds the mind or forms ripples on the still lake [mind] and the reflection of TRUTH unclear.

My personal view is that since consciousness apparently arises due to biological processes, it cannot merge with anything, and dies when the body stops functioning. Even if the believer experiences a sense of merging or oneness, it's all in his mind rather than an actually occurring phenomena, and his consciousness will cease when his body eventually dies. But the point of this thread is to have people explain what they think a perfect being is like, so for the sake of discussion I'm working with whatever definitions and beliefs they present.
Biological processes are part of existence and so it is inbuilt in every form and for the reason you have sited Gautama never spoke of rebirth as such. Gautama knew that when an individual rises to that level of consciousness his death too is conscious and will be born again consciously and such individuals do not need guidance as they now guide others to the other shore.

In a thread a little while back in the religious Debate section about Buddhism, I debated with people that a being is not truly experiencing oneness unless it can experience what any being in the universe experiences. If it cannot, then it is experiencing separateness.
Kindly understand: One cannot experience ONENESS simply because there is no OTHER present to witness the event. It is a state where the perceiver and the perceived becomes ONE.

 

[Penumbra]

Hi Penumbra, interesting question.

IMHO there are no perfect beings, only one perfect being. This one and only perfection is THAT which encompasses all that exists.

For those enlightened beings who understand there is only one perfect being, they would probably respond to human beings who ask the question about it like this.....

Does this imply that all that exists, exists in the most optimal possible way? In other words, this universe is the best of all possible universes?

Let's say that I agree that no individual parts within all that is can be perfect. What is it about all that exists that makes it perfect?

Can the mundane mind get to know the way of the enlightened?

IMO, religion is not supposed to be about knowledge or belief about anything, but is a practice to realize actual reality/truth directly, beyond the mundane mind's conceptualization of IT.

I've never particularly understood the value of that sort of thinking. The guy was silent for a moment and knew. I don't see how that makes sense.

The perfect being is completely Realised. He/she/it exists in a state of pure Love.

What do they love?

He is without sin. He is the Son of God.

What does it mean to be without sin? And what makes a son of god necessarily perfect?

On one hand, I've heard it argued that sin is that which is contrary to what god wants. If Jesus is god, then not doing what he does not want to do is not necessarily all that impressive. So I'm not sure I see the connection.

On the other hand, if Jesus is a human, what does it mean not to sin? In the New Testament, whenever his character did something that was against scripture and therefore sinful, and people pointed it out to him, he would say that they are the ones that don't understand scripture correctly and that he's not sinning.

 

[Smoke]

What is a perfect being like?

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Does this imply that all that exists, exists in the most optimal possible way? In other words, this universe is the best of all possible universes?

More or less yes, but opinions like best (or worst) are irrelevant because there is no other to compare it with.

Let's say that I agree that no individual parts within all that is can be perfect. What is it about all that exists that makes it perfect?

The word 'perfect' in this instance is only used as an expedient to describe the absolute reality,...and since there is no other reality to compare it with, it seems an appropriate term. Though feel free to use another if you prefer...

I've never particularly understood the value of that sort of thinking. The guy was silent for a moment and knew. I don't see how that makes sense.

Yes of course, don't even try, for the personal 'I' (thinking mind} can't ever realize reality directly, it can only deal with conceptualizations of reality.