What is a real God?

[blü 2]

There is no objective reality to the godness nor god. Believers say this too. It's all dependent on culture and personal experiences.

The best way to understand this is go beyond the claims and put the unspoken pieces together as well. Additional research.


No. Just means believers take culture, emotions, and their interpretations of the world and find within themselves something greater or interconnected to answer questions about their place on earth. God is "the answer".

Unless you have an idea of what their answers "should be" it will be the same. It's subjective. It's cultural. It's based on experience.

 

[blü 2]

No. Just means believers take culture, emotions, and their interpretations of the world and find within themselves something greater or interconnected to answer questions about their place on earth. God is "the answer".

But clearly not a real god, not one with objective existence and qualities. Hence a god whose origin is one's own brain.

Unless you have an idea of what their answers "should be" it will be the same. It's subjective. It's cultural. It's based on experience.

And it's not about a real god, one with objective existence.

 

[Apologes]

I think you're focusing on semantics here rather than anything meaningful. Suppose we somehow find indisputable evidence of there being an immaterial, transcendant, omnipotent, omniscient and omnibenevolent being. Would it really matter if you decide to call this being a "superscientist" considering how this same being would still be what theists choose to call "God"?

 

[stvdv]

If we ever encounter a particularly powerful being who can do things we can’t – create universes, destroy worlds, read thoughts, restore the dead to life, convert water to wine, become invisible, act remotely, grant wishes &c – what test will tell us whether that being is God (or, a god) or not?

What, in real terms, is ‘godness’? What real quality does God have that a superscientist doesn’t? What objective test must we apply to resolve the question?

Very good questions IMO. Very interesting subject.

A) God should at least have these for me: Omniscient, Omnipotent, Omnipresent, Unconditional Love, Willing to be my refuge
B) Plan to proof God exists: I tell God "I surrender to You, You take care of my life. You are my refuge, My Doctor I rely on. No hospital if sick"
C1) Objective test would be: Wait till I get `very` sick [incurable or so], then pray [should not be needed IMO]. When I get cured then I have my proof.
C2) Objective test when in a hurry [or never sick]: Stop eating and drinking. The scriptures declare that you only die if it is your time. Needs a little more faith.

For me the above will do to know"God exists". I don't care if he is a she, or has red hair, or if he is "pure energy", or something else. Just take care of me will be enough.

 

[`mud]

Red hair or not...when one dies in the process...there is no help...there is no care.
There is no `other` test, no-one `created` one, life is the only `test`, and then....

 

[stvdv]

Red hair or not...when one dies in the process...there is no help...there is no care.
There is no `other` test, no-one `created` one, life is the only `test`, and then....

I just answered the question: How to proof God exists.
Nobody said the test should be without any risks.
We talk about the major puzzle to solve.
Don't expect easy solution mud

 

[`mud]

And I said..."when one dies in the process"
And how to prove `God` exists....imagine `Him`, and then die.

 

[jonathan180iq]

If we ever encounter a particularly powerful being who can do things we can’t – create universes, destroy worlds, read thoughts, restore the dead to life, convert water to wine, become invisible, act remotely, grant wishes &c – what test will tell us whether that being is God (or, a god) or not?

What, in real terms, is ‘godness’? What real quality does God have that a superscientist doesn’t? What objective test must we apply to resolve the question?

I would accept a demigod (a human-like being with "powers" above and beyond the capabilities of human possibility) as a god. I just need to see anything at all, in the real world, that could validate my need to hold out hope for such an entity to exist.

A god will have abilities above what we deem to be possible. If those abilities can be expressed, then that individual would be a god.

 

[stvdv]

And I said..."when one dies in the process"
And how to prove `God` exists....imagine `Him`, and then die.

I admit, it sounds a bit like Russian Roulette ... "when one dies in the process"
At least then you also know if God exists, only you can't let us know anymore
But look at the bright side, suppose God exists, and you made it through alive

 

[Quintessence]

I only read through about the first three pages of the thread, so apologies if this has been asked, but there's something in the OP that I feel needs some clarification.

What in the blazes is a "superscientist?"

 

[Unveiled Artist]

But clearly not a real god, not one with objective existence and qualities. Hence a god whose origin is one's own brain.

Of course not; yes, it is in the brain. Thats my whole point.

God is subjective and created into existence by culture and human psyche to understand self and the environment around them)

And it's not about a real god, one with objective existence.

Exactly. The reason it exists (like emotions) is not because of tangibility, it isnt, but because of how it affects and influences the behaviors of its followers. Emotions can cause a person to suffer from depression. Emotions of love can make someone heightened. Anger can cause someone to violence. And so forth. These thought patterns can be picked up by EEG (So, they do exist) but its not tangible. That doesnt mean its not objective.We just ask different types of questions to come up with the reason and forumla to why emotions exist when neurology isnt what studies thoughts; its psychology.

Likewise with gods. Instead, the formula and reasoning is from study and experiences of those religions cultures and how people internalize their answers to their place in the world and purpose by what they find in themselves to believe. God is an avatar to the results of their experiences. Im talking more of Hindu and Abrahamic. God is the answer to questions. To what extent does a culture make present god to interact depends. Catholicism makes god present through tradition/culture and coming together as one unit to bring god present among them.

I feel your questions arent related to what believers actually believe. Think you can go deeper than objective evidence and find what religion have in common and use their experiences and understanding of how they see god (if they talk about it) to see why people believe and how god exists objectively but not in the manner you are asking.

Got to find the right questions.

 

[`mud]

"The scriptures declare that you only die if it is your time. Needs a little more faith."
hey stvdv,
That, above, is the `process` that I was referring to.
"...if it is your time." there's no solution there !
"..and you made it through alive." Did one ???
I was talking about dying, wasn't I ?
It depends on one's beliefs in `gods` doesn't it ?
My imagination is not strong enough to see those `gods`.

 

[Windwalker]

Are you saying that God isn't sentient? If [he]'s not sentient then [he]'s an it, not a [he].

I generally avoid using personal pronouns, especially gender related. Even the word "it" is inaccurate, but I prefer it over "He". But I'll use those too sometimes if touching upon the personal nature of the Self. It's more poetic, than factual in my usage. The nature and reality of God is beyond languaging. But not beyond experience.

Is God sentient? God is Awareness. God is Intelligence. I wouldn't image that to be like the isolated brain sort of thing one might think of when we see a bunny rabbit and see its "sentience".

And you appear to be rejecting the idea that 'God' is a synonym for 'every real thing' or 'mass-energy', though I'm far from clear what you could have meant before if not those.

When you speak of "everything" or "mass-energy", you are referring to physicality, the material universe. While the material universe is not separate from God, it does not define what God is. Therefore, God is not a synonym for the universe. The universe is the creation of God, is not outside God, but is not synonymous with God. God is not limited to form.

So God, you say, doesn't have objective existence, isn't real, has no provenance but your own mentation?

No. Our ideas of God are our own mentations. We can know the reality of God without using the conceptual mind to know. When you drink a glass of ice water on at hot summer day, is it the conceptual mind that tells your thirst is quenched? Do you not experience that, until you think about it first? It's really not more complex than that.

If that's what you mean, that's fine, but it's not what this thread is about. This thread is about the concept of a real god, real in the sense of having objective existence, and my inability to make any sense of that concept.

It is the Real God. God really exists. It's just not the idea of God you have inherited and give all power over to, and reject as an idea. That's not God. It's a cartoon.

 

[BilliardsBall]

If we ever encounter a particularly powerful being who can do things we can’t – create universes, destroy worlds, read thoughts, restore the dead to life, convert water to wine, become invisible, act remotely, grant wishes &c – what test will tell us whether that being is God (or, a god) or not?

What, in real terms, is ‘godness’? What real quality does God have that a superscientist doesn’t? What objective test must we apply to resolve the question?

I would say hallmarks do NOT include mere miracles but: super-powered love, super-powered emotion (I don't expect higher beings to evolve past emotions like Spock) and super-powered knowledge, like knowledge of and sovereignty over future events.

 

[`mud]

hey Billiards,
Give a break....you're comparing Spock with your `God` and miracles ??? Really !

 

[Sir Doom]

What sets a being apart as a god is first, their intention to be god. If a being doesn't want to be god then how do you plan on forcing it? You can't. It doesn't matter if it is the almighty creator of everything. If it doesn't want to be God, then it isn't. Try to argue with said being, if you wish.

On the other hand, if a being does wish to be God then all it needs is anyone else to believe it, too. Done and done.

 

[stvdv]

My imagination is not strong enough to see those `gods`.

Not correct IMO. "Imagination won't show you God". We have eyes, all know. We have sixth' sense, , animals also. But not all have this developed.
We have eyes, but also an "inner eye", which is used to "see God". Scriptures explain how to open this. Free choice.
Useless to debate whether God exists or not IMO. More useful to debate "how to open my inner eye" IMO.

Saints have declared the below [Atma is "God within"]:
Divinity is in everyone and everywhere. You may not see Him with your physical eye, but you can visualise Him with your inner vision. Air exists, you cannot deny this even though you cannot see it or catch it. When it is hot, you can experience coolness either by using a hand fan or an electric fan. Air has not come from the fan. But whoever uses the fan receives and feels the air. Similarly God exists like air. The intellect is the fan. If you turn it toward Atma, you get Atmananda (Atmic bliss). On the other hand, you turn it towards the body, and you get temporary bodily pleasure. For crossing the ocean of life, you cannot depend on the body which is perishable and transient. It is indeed full of dirt and filth, flesh and bones. Hence you must surrender to the Divine within. Once you have God to help you, there is nothing that you cannot achieve.

 

[Agent]

God is the supreme being. God said, Let there be light.

 

[atanu]

....What objective test must we apply to resolve the question?

My favourite counter question is: What objective test can Harry Potter employ to resolve the question about JK Rowling?

(The above is only an approximate analogy).

 

[`mud]

hey Stvdv,
My eyes can't see any `gods`,
but my mind can invent them,
and then I can imagine them.
And.....then I grew up and reality came in,
imagination wasn't needed anymore.